I call BS on main stream gravity theory!

Greetings,

We have been taught from day one that gravity is the Weakest of the natural forces and this is demonstrated easily to us by the simple act of a small magnet robbing a paper clip from our kitchen table from the "massive" force of earths gravity.

Gravity, by humans is misunderstood, it without doubt is perceived as the least powerful fundamental force known to science.... without a doubt right? I mean, every science nut out there will tell you that scientifically, it has been observed AS the least powerfull force that makes up modern physics. This can not be debated, main stream science teaches this and it is "well known".

I have a couple of ignorant questions when it comes to gravity, I will grant that I am NOT a scientist, a physicist nor even a mathematical genius. That said... What I am, is a very smart bartender that doesn't understand what they are being spoon fed because it goes against my basic common sense.

If gravity is so weak, why is it responsible for the following.....................

1. Gravitational lensing

In my estimation this phenomenon has the ability to change not only how we view the size of the universe but also ourselves in it. Are we completely sure about distance, even though we do not fully understand this effect? Interesting to know that massive objects (IE: Gravity) causes lensing.

2.) Black holes

Why am I too believe that the weakest of the four forces is responsible for the only known event where known physics completely breaks down into madness? Black holes and the resulting singularity are quite possibly the strangest event in the universe and have profound implications as too what our universe actually is and more importantly.... Where it is. This event is a direct result of gravity.

3.) Galaxie formation

Let us not forget that gravity is also responsible for the creation of galaxies, the orbits and formations of planets and solar systems as well!

All of that said, why is gravity played down my main stream science as being feeble and week when in fact it is responsible for our physical reality as we know it?

I don't claim to know more than Einstein nor do I have any proof that relativity or special relativity isn't completely correct. What I do claim is something seems wrong with what we perceive gravity as. There is something "missing" that I we don't get. What do you think it is, if anything?

hmm are people believing gravity is weak, i never knew.
gravity the the real power of the universe, its strogest most abundant force.
we experience on earth 1G which is very small scale compared with some places out there.
jupiter, although very massive only has about 2.5G.
The sun they think is about 28G.
Gravity's pull travels very far.
some sources say our galaxy consists of over 100 billion stars.
galaxies pull each other towards them.
Gravity shapes everything in space.

The same could be said for how humans can move freely while planets are kept in orbit. I figured gravity depends on scale and mass. I to am no scientist but it seems neither of us are in the position to call these theories "BS".

Gravity is powerful in mass.. it's all about scale .. it may be the weakest force, but it's also everywhere and the larger the mass, the larger the force..

As a fellow bartender ( only for special events ) .. I liken it to this:

1 shot of whiskey may not do much, but 10 shots sure will .. scale

Edit: OwenGP185 beat me to it.. basically the same idea it's all about scale.

Originally posted by Helious
If gravity is so weak, why is it responsible for the following..............

A. Because to create those effects you need an object the size of a galaxy.
Now consider a magnet the size of a galaxy. Much stronger.


Now consider another thought experiment.
You want to crush a tomato between two objects.
Experiment 1. Get two objects large enough so that the gravitational field between them is strong enough to crush a tomato between them. I'd expect you'd need something the size of a city for each.

Experiment 2. Get two magnets large enough so that the magnetic field between them is strong enough to crush a tomato between them. I'd expect you'd need something you easily could hold in your hand.

Let me preface this post with:
I do not know the answer to the riddle of gravity.


Most people visualize gravity by using a magnet as an example.
This is flawed.

Example:

Take a metal solid sphere. find the poles.
There are no fixed poles.

Now take a metal bar.. with a noth and a south pole.
hammer it flat....then wrap the edges together, to form a hollow tube with poles at each end.
reduce the end holes and expand the middle area until you have a hollow shpere with small holes at each "pole".

Either we have no clue how gravity works and what gravity is..
or the earth is hollw.

I also do not believe the earth is hollow.
I believe we just don't know much at all about gravity, and most or our working models are seriously flawed.

Gravity is the weakest of the three forces.


You can temporarily win a battle with gravity every time you jump. You can win the battle for an even longer period in say, a plane, or a balloon.

The "Weak Nuclear Force" is 10^34 stronger than gravity. This is why they say gravity is the weakest force.

I think your questions comes from your misinterpretation of the statement "gravity is the weakest of the forces."

I could explain further, but there are books and documentaries that will do a much better job than me, if you are truly looking for an answer.

In general, the thought is that gravity should be stronger, but isn't. Hence it is referred to as "the weakest force." If gravity were any stronger, however, the universe would be a completely different place and we wouldn't be here to ponder the strength of gravity.

YOu already said WE really dont know what gravity is and for most part that is true. However just because we dont really know what is dosent mean we cannot guess at what it does. the standard model fits pretty well of what we see in observation. As for it being the weakest force be glad that is, for if Gravity was strong we wouldnt be here. Why it is the weakest is one of the mysteres of gravity. However a different approach maybe needed. To give u an example.
before the big bang gravity was strong and the dominate force. When the big bang happened the inintial release of energy was able to force back the hold of gravity and as small particles travelling possibly faster than light shattered the strong gravity much like when a projectile hitting a block of glass. As the universe expanded the strong gravity is pushed further back. So on the outside of our univeres where light has not penetrated Gravity is strong trying to compact the universe and it will eventually but only when all light is extinguished from our universe. So a possible explanation as to why gravity is weak is because of small particles called neutrinos and photons or the electromagnetic forces which is the strongest force known,

reply to post by listerofsmeg


Actually compared to magnetism gravity is quite weak in this universe.

While we are used to viewing "weak" in a certain context its a bit different here. And gravity has a special relationship with electromagnetism so it makes up for it. I found some info which I had to read 4 times to slightly grasp it lol Interesting stuff but not my profession lol:

The most dramatic difference between the weak force and the electromagnetic force is in its strength. As its name would imply, the weak force is much weaker than electromagnetism or the strong force. However, what we mean by the strength of a force is not always the same on a microscopic level as it is on a macroscopic level. In the macroscopic world, we think of the strength of a force in terms of so many pounds (or Newtons or dynes, if you're metrically inclined) of force that one object exerts on another. But in the microcosmos, there's a different way of thinking of strength.

When two subatomic particles approach each other, they may or may not interact with each other at all. This depends on the distance at which the particles approach, the nature of the force between them, and random chance. A pion and proton, which interact via the (residual) strong force, are very likely to interact with each other, if they approach within range. An electron and a proton, which interact electromagnetically, are much less likely to. Hence we say that the strong force is much stronger than the electromagnetic force. This is not because the interaction between pion and proton produces a much larger effect (it doesn't), but because such interactions between pion and proton are much more likely than between electron and proton.

So when we say that the weak force is weak, it's because two particles that can only interact weakly with each other are, in fact, very unlikely to interact at all. How unlikely? Well, let's suppose for the moment that we build a really large aquarium. An aquarium 1000 light-years long. Now we fill this aquarium with water, and fire a neutrino into one end. A neutrino is a good particle for illustrating the weak force, because it's colorless and electrically neutral, so that the only force we need concern ourselves with is the weak force. (Gravity is a whole other kettle of fish.) Anyway, this neutrino, which can only interact with the other particles in the aquarium via the weak force, has a fifty-fifty chance of passing all the way through this aquarium without hitting anything!

Source

So in short, its weak in terms of a macroscopic vs microscopic world and its interactions in them.

reply to post by projectvxn


maybe but nothing does more than gravity in this universe. its a hard working force.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by listerofsmeg

 

Actually compared to magnetism gravity is quite weak in this universe.

actually the opposite is true.
Take a magnet and see how well it works on wood. then toss a stick into the air.

Originally posted by BadNinja68

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by listerofsmeg

 

Actually compared to magnetism gravity is quite weak in this universe.

actually the opposite is true.
Take a magnet and see how well it works on wood. then toss a stick into the air.

No offense meant at all, but if this was the definition of science we'd all be living in caves eating moss and laughing at our farts.

To give an easily understandable example:

If you drop an object from a height, gravity will cause the object to fall to the ground.

It is the electromagnetic force that allows the ground and every other object to appear and behave as a solid object, even though it is technically not solid at all. Electromagnetism prevents the object from falling through the ground. Just like it prevents a fist form going through your head when you get punched in the face. (In this example we are assuming this is NOT Chuck Norris' fist.)

In this example you can see easily that electromagnetism is the stronger force.

Originally posted by BadNinja68
Take a magnet and see how well it works on wood. then toss a stick into the air.

Poor test. You misunderstand the way the elecromagnetic force works.
The whole reason that the atoms in the wood "stick" together making wood a solid object is because of that force. They dont stick together due to their gravitational force.

Your analogy is more like seeing the average velocity of cars on a freeway is zero (because half are going north, and half are going south) and thus assuming they have no speed.

even though everything is being pulled by gravity, it takes a very long time for anything to happen, billions of years can pass before a galaxy pulls another galaxy into itself.
gravity is weak here on earth but as a force in the universe, it is the strongest

OP, you should look up and watch EVERY Brian Cox documentary you can find.

I have had long conversations with people who completely believe the third law of thermodynamics to be false, because they do not understand what the law is truly saying. Brian Cox does a great job of explaining these principles and "laws" so that they are easily understandable.

I think gravity is so instrumental to achieving things that seem impossible, like perpetual motion, floating UFOs, and space travel of great distances, that when we do finally figure it out we will unlock and harness a great and important, fundamental principle of the universe and become a very advanced race in terms of technology. I also feel that because of its importance, that certain scientific achievements relating to gravity done in governmental facilities are being kept secret from the general population.

Just to put this out there.
I have read somewhere that that response of the forces differs.
So where gravity's response follows the inverse square law.
The other forces do not necessarily.
I would imagine that this would have a bearing on determining the relative strengths of forces.
Perhaps someone with more info can elaborate on this.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by BadNinja68
Take a magnet and see how well it works on wood. then toss a stick into the air.

Poor test. You misunderstand the way the elecromagnetic force works.
The whole reason that the atoms in the wood "stick" together making wood a solid object is because of that force. They dont stick together due to their gravitational force.

Your analogy is more like seeing the average velocity of cars on a freeway is zero (because half are going north, and half are going south) and thus assuming they have no speed.

no.
you misunderstood the analogy.

Gravity and electromagnetism are not the same thing. They are similar in some effects, but on a quantum level they act as different as night and day.

Comparing gravity to a metal magnet is a flawed understanding of gravity, but alas it's the best we have to compare.

Electromagnetism shares many of the aspects of gravitational force, but they also have as many differences.




What is gravity?
we really do not know. Einstien had a few novel theories about gravity that seem to work, but he had more questions than answers.

He thought that gravity is what happens when space itself is curved or warped around a mass, such as a star or a planet. Thus, a star or planet would cause kind of a dip in space so that any other object that came too near would tend to fall into the dip

Many physicists are firmly convinced that gravity is a cousin to the other forces in Nature that we know about including electromagnetism. The exact, mathematical, way to show this unity - called Superstring Theory - remains experimentally untested. According to some skeptical physicists, this theory may be permanently untestable.

www.astronomycafe.net...