Portuguese military says "if people riot, it will side with them, not the government"!!!

reply to post by rainychica


ordo ab chao. the lizards are winning.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
Police and the military are conditioned to take orders and never question authority. It's the only way governments keep their people under control and wage war.

Unfortunately, the police and military are conditioned just like the German Nazis. They don't morally question their enforcement or violence on their fellow citizens. Those that do care, are scared of the consequences if they refuse to take orders. They need their jobs like everyone else. The only way they refuse to take orders is if it's agreed upon by the majority.

That is 100% not true....The military in fact trains soldiers and officers to follow ethical orders....period...If it is something that is not ethical, we are trained to question that order and suffer the consequences of not following it. We are trained that it is better that we suffer than to follow an unethical order, period.

Originally posted by pajoly
You can bet that America's police and military will have no qualms about firing upon Americans citizens. The military will just make sure they use a unit known for being modern Christian zealots. Insane cultist like that will think they are doing God's work and will kill other and child alike without a wince.

There is not a single US unit that will turn a weapon on an american citizen without cause...Our soldiers are not the police that can be and probably have been bought. I will stand by our soldiers, and say, 'A US soldier would rather turn his/her weapon on themselves then to fire upon american citizens'. If you feel otherwise, you have never met a single soldier. You may disagree with my point all you wish, but I charge you with going to the closest military base and asking the first soldier you find.

reply to post by pointr97


So that explains why so many US soldiers are all over the world, occupying resource-rich nations in order to rob them.

I am Portuguese and i can tell you this is for real. The government is cutting wages of the military too, so they are pissed of.
The situation is getting serious, the austerity measures are so unfair that not even the military will take it.

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by pointr97

 

So that explains why so many US soldiers are all over the world, occupying resource-rich nations in order to rob them.

Dont forget the rape of children and the systematic torture of people.
Soldiers cannot think for themselves, if they could, they would have refused to invade other countries.

They are brainwashed to follow orders in training.

I think some people on here are very hard on soldiers and the Police for that matter. At the end of the day, they need to pay the bills, put food on the table for their families and earn a living. Both careers had a certain amount of job security, good career prospects and fairly good salary, which is why most people are attracted to them. They have a job to do, they aren't robots, but they have to act as an authority. I do believe that the military can attract power hungry uneducated types more so than the Police, these people are more likely to abuse the power for their own gain. At the same time, there are mothers, fathers, sons and daughters who simply want to earn a living, some that want to do the best they can, most that just want to get to end of their shift. These are people that deal with the same issues that we all do and revolution has showed us that we need both on side. The thing is, as someone who has experience in the Police, they certainly don't always agree with government policies, they don't like being dictated to by people who have absolutely no experience of dealing with crime, criminals and unrest. They have a duty, which the vast majority believe, to protest the innocent.

The problem we have with these protests, is that they offer no credible alternative. I know this, the working guy next to me knows this, the Police know this, banks know this and the government know this. However, if you had a credible alternative, a real manifesto, a policy that would say "We won't change the world, but we'll put more money in every workers pocket." You would have people onside, Police onside, workers onside! These protests have the usual support, students, rich kids, well off liberals, liberal rich celebs and the unemployable. When these protests have workers protesting, collectively, not just Public vs Private sector, but collectively, then you will have your revolution. You will have the Police and the Military on side.

So think before having a go at the Police and Military, they are you're only hope for a credible revolution, but they aren't going to sit back and watch the country go to pot! None of us will! Not when none of you protesters and supporters can actually come up with an alternative that will see us all better off, or at least workers and retired better off. My unemployed mates already walk around with £1500 in their pockets every month, they don't need any further help! I do keep repeating myself, but no one seems to understand, these protests are worthless and will amount to nothing, because although admirable and with good intention, they attack an issue that has little to do with the downfall of Western countries. The Central Bank, Government polices and the destruction of the hard working ethic and the rewarding of idleness, are to name a few of the real issues that affect us all.

For all of you stating otherwise, I can guarantee that the situation is the same here in the States.

I am so sick and tired of the BS about how all of our service members (being one myself) are 'brainwashed' and go around the world 'raping and pillaging'. It's a false generalization, and as far as I'm concerned, a direct insult and attack on all of the ATS members who happen to be in the military (not sure why it continues to be tolerated on this site, but whatever).

I've got a few things for all of you spouting this nonsense:

- First off: Not I, nor anyone else I have ever met would ever fire upon their fellow citizens (our friends and family who we care about). That kind of thing is what is called an unlawful order, and a generally terrible thing to do.

- Secondly: Guess what? The vast majority of our fighting forces are in the middle class/lower class. When TSHTF, who do you think we'll side with? The government? Nope.

- Thirdly: Most of my buddies in the military are actually more informed on all this political/current event stuff that's going on than the average citizen. Why? Because much of it directly affects us.

- Finally (and most importantly): Guess who we take our orders from? The Commander in Chief. Congress. That's right, civilians. Civilians bought out by corporations that you all elected into office, and continue to vote back into office year after year. Do you think anyone in the military likes being used as a tool for special interests? Some of the most outstanding critics of these wars are former military members.

Stop pointing your finger at the only people with power in this country who actually care about your well-being, and start pointing it at the real culprits: yourselves. We can whine and complain about the military industrial complex and the special interest groups 'til we're blue in the face. But in the end, we (the PEOPLE) hold all the votes, and are ultimately responsible for what happens in this country.

EDIT: point of fact: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Vehemens

Originally posted by AngelsDecay
Hey, hey hey...hold on a second!

Of course i respect all the readers here because only a very few, for sure, can speak and and understand Portuguese on this Board. (sometimes the google translator cannot make 100%sense at all)

So, here it goes. I am Portuguese, i Live in my Beloved Portugal, and for this occasion, i can also tell you that my Dad its a retired Military Official.
First this very new DO NOT depict at all the majority feeling of the entire Portuguese Military Forces, including Air Force, Navy and Army.
The news linked here:

economico.sapo.pt...

Refers only to a Syndicate of Sargeants...wich for sure do not speak for the rest of the colleagues. Some of them even maybe voted on the actual Prime-Minister.

What they are trying to say( and i fully respect it), its not "we are going to rebellion", but "if things goes wrong we do not like this government policies", wich (and truth must be said), are the only option to take us out of the actual crisis...People in Portugal always lived above their own possibilities, having each family 2 or 3 cars, 5 phone mobiles and every one at the age of 22 maybe, starts to buy a home(not rent), not because it is needed, but because the neighbour also have!
We live on appearences!

We can have tons of politicians, from left to right, but with this way of thinking, no one can achieve anything without a lil bit of sacrifice!

People here in Portugal are crying "we dont have a job and we want to work" »»» False
Or better, some ones its true, but others its simply hipocrisy...They prefer to stay at home, depending only of the unemployment subsidies, watching the brazilians and ucranians working for them.
Students some of them cries for justice and a better work, but unfortunately, thousands of them only burns mom and dad's money (earned with bloody sacrifices sometimes), in Universities parties, alcohool and stupid things.
Only a few really takes things very seriously...

Another thing that unfortunately has some abundance here in Portugal its the old thinking story of the "Poor and the MercedeS"»»»
Normally in other cultures when a poor see a guy in a big car he thinks for himself:
"One Day i will have a Mercedes like You"
In Portugal:
"One day you will be beggaring as me"

If someone or anything here its well and nice, the purpose of the rest its not to follow and try to achieve him(her), but to throw it down..((( ( "we" dont worry if a thousand are living in poverty, but "our" concern its if a mere 12 are rich!

Revolutions or pseudo-revolutions could be made in one day, in one night, etc, etc...but changing peoples minds takes more than 50 years or so...

We have some very wise men on the military scene here...but for Christ sake, and also taking in mind that we are not Corruption-Free, and other nasty things as well, its not a Military Revolution that would put our country in the right way.
Military are made to work on the military fields, not to rule and do the govern of Countries, specially in an advanced Europe, IMHO.
A very long dictatorship was ended many years ago...we dont want to start another one, with or without the military.
OK, Lets say it»»» The Military starts a Coup/Rebellion Tonight for instance, so here it goes the basic questions:

A) Will we have a job tomorrow?
- NO

B) Will we have money in our banks tomorrow?
- NO

C) Some people wanna start to work tomorrow, instead of seeing others working for them?
-NO

It useless and its a total meaningless shot in the dark. If such thing occurs in these days would be the most stupid, idiot and devastating thing for us all, our families, children and next generations.
We are not Greece, we are not Egypt, We DO HAVE some real problems, but even with or without a military help, none of them would be fixed...Only Wisdom and Patience, my 2 cents

edit on 16-10-2011 by AngelsDecay because: (no reason given)

Lol, we can't be from the same Country. What kind of image of Portugal is that, the people you hang out with? Yeah, some people are like that, just like in any country but most of us definitely aren't like that.

Totally agree ,
i do not know what country you are in but it sure is different to the Portugal that i live in !!!!

snoopyuk

Originally posted by Manula
I am Portuguese and i can tell you this is for real. The government is cutting wages of the military too, so they are pissed of.
The situation is getting serious, the austerity measures are so unfair that not even the military will take it.

Sorry...No, It's Not for Real...Senseless lefthand silly bad propaganda

Isnt ARMP (Spelling?) (mod) Portuguese ?
Maybe he can chime in on his views.

Brilliant news,if others followed it would be great! The military are after all just everyday people like me and you

Erm....no they're not.

It's all well and good, but what then?

A military junta in charge of Portugal? Yeah, I'm sure that would be great....who would be the rulers?

Well, I am Portuguese and I can say that the views expressed in the article are the right ones but the motivation is not so simple. Only a handful of left-wing soldiers are willing to be loyal to Portugal instead of serving the corrupt Portuguese leadership.

Our 1974 "bloodless" revolution was promoted by a military movement headed by captains who were against the Ultramar War and some internal injustices. The people followed and the dictatorial regime ended.

Currently, the Portuguese military is full of high-ranking well paid corrupt officers. We have too many generals. Low-ranking personnel are not very well paid and there is little money for training, maintenance or new weapons. There has always been tension within the Military and between them and the Government. Our military has been rendered pretty much useless and incapable of protecting the territory and its people. It was never any better but The People managed to defend the country for almost 1000 years.

We have a Republican Guard (GNR) which is a military force doing police work. This institution has a long history of violently repressing protesters. Nowadays, PSP (our main police force) is trained for the same reasons: oppression. The thing is: the Government forgets to pay them (with our money, BTW) and they have no decent working conditions upholding the Law, only the riot police is well trained and funded to serve politicians and bankers.

I am afraid there is no real sense of duty towards The People except for a few officers: it's always about the money. Our Constitution and Law is constantly violated by the police and things might get ugly in a couple of months. I hope some of them will grow a brain and come to the aid of those they are supposed to defend.

Originally posted by silvercrow
Well, I am Portuguese and I can say that the views expressed in the article are the right ones but the motivation is not so simple. Only a handful of left-wing soldiers are willing to be loyal to Portugal instead of serving the corrupt Portuguese leadership.

Our 1974 "bloodless" revolution was promoted by a military movement headed by captains who were against the Ultramar War and some internal injustices. The people followed and the dictatorial regime ended.

Currently, the Portuguese military is full of high-ranking well paid corrupt officers. We have too many generals. Low-ranking personnel are not very well paid and there is little money for training, maintenance or new weapons. There has always been tension within the Military and between them and the Government. Our military has been rendered pretty much useless and incapable of protecting the territory and its people. It was never any better but The People managed to defend the country for almost 1000 years.

We have a Republican Guard (GNR) which is a military force doing police work. This institution has a long history of violently repressing protesters. Nowadays, PSP (our main police force) is trained for the same reasons: oppression. The thing is: the Government forgets to pay them (with our money, BTW) and they have no decent working conditions upholding the Law, only the riot police is well trained and funded to serve politicians and bankers.

I am afraid there is no real sense of duty towards The People except for a few officers: it's always about the money. Our Constitution and Law is constantly violated by the police and things might get ugly in a couple of months. I hope some of them will grow a brain and come to the aid of those they are supposed to defend.

edit on 17-10-2011 by silvercrow because: I herp derped

Well...i really start to believe on the ATS threads about Different Dimensions, Time Travellers and Other Worlds...

And do you not think we have the same kind of minds here in the USA....... Military that know right from wrong, and may be our only hope ultimatly when Corperations and Crooked polititions try for their dictatrship grab.

Originally posted by AngelsDecay

Well...i really start to believe on the ATS threads about Different Dimensions, Time Travellers and Other Worlds...

I'm happy for you, but do you have anything of value to say?

reply to post by CaptainIraq


If you are more informed than the rest of us, yet you continue to follow orders of those who you admit are corrupt, then that makes you at least equally as responsible, if not more so, as those giving you the orders.

Originally posted by angelchemuel
I am a little concerned about this announcement. Although I whole heartedly agree this world situation cannot continue, as soon as I read this I remembered Egypt. Wasn't the military there supporting the people? But look what's happened now...it appears to me the military are running the country as Egypts elections which were promised for September I last heard/read have still not happened.
Rainbows
Jane

good point,this is what i was thinking,the people maybe walking into a trap,is it really the military on the peoples side,or the people being on the military's side.

reply to post by pointr97

That is 100% not true....The military in fact trains soldiers and officers to follow ethical orders....period...If it is something that is not ethical, we are trained to question that order and suffer the consequences of not following it. We are trained that it is better that we suffer than to follow an unethical order, period.

I think there's been enough unethical orders followed by troops during the Iraq and Afghanistan war without soldiers ignoring the orders. Taking orders of torture comes to mind. Occupying a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and after they found no WMD's they still continued the occupation! I find it unethical to occupy a country under false pretenses, than finding out the mission was false, and than make up another reason why you should be occupying the country.

So where was the mass revolt from our troops? How would you like to have a country bomb the hell out of America because of lies and than after realizing it was a lie still occupy and cause innocent civilians to die?

Ok, I guess if you feel something is unethical and decide you don't want to take a chance on killing innocent civilians, you can just walk away and fear no retribution. Collateral damage is like walking into a restaurant to kill a high priority terrorist, and at the same time kill innocent civilians. Define ethical from a military point of view as compared to a civilian point of view. 100% untrue, I think not.

reply to post by Firefly_


The military is nothing more than a tool meant to exercise the will of the people; like it or not thats the way the military supposed to work in a democracy. I am part of that tool and have a job to do and bills to pay (a job which, fyi,doesn't include either raping or pillaging ). If it is the will of the people to be ignorant, not give two #!@?s about whether their elected representatives actually represent them, and continue to place more importance on things like American Idol, then so be it.

Once you start getting units of the military formulating their own political stances, you get things like military coups and all the fun stuff that comes along with those. Its better this way.