Video: Evidence for a Creator? Are matter, space, and time infinite?

Originally posted by SpreadLoveNotHate
How do we ever know there was a beginning... I mean, do you remember the day you "popped into existence"?

Considering there are Souls as old as the universe (so-to-speak), which is quintillions of quintillions of quintillions of quintillions of quintillions (keep going) of earth years old, how could anyone in human form remember all of that?

Ribbit

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
START:current theory

The big bang is a name that just stuck via the media. It is not a scientific term coined by science. There was not actually a bang, lol. When the big bang occurred from a singularity, or basically an infinitely dense point of not just matter, but what would later become space-time itself.

It isn't like there was empty space, and then the big bang distributed matter throughout. Rather, space and time were created at that instant. This is according to mainstream science, but below I offer my own hypothetical interpretation and ideas. Space itself actually expanded faster than the speed of light, creating what we think of as the empty space of the universe. The matter that was present expanded outward along with the fabric of space and time itself, and was distributed in all directions.

The big bang is the reason that we are hurtling through space at this very moment at a very high rate of speed.
It is hard to visualize or think about in our everyday 3 dimensional world...actually nearly impossible. What I would like to know is what did space expand itself into? What was there before "space?"

END: current theory

START: wild speculation

My hypothesis, and I have no clue if this is on the right track, is that a form of empty space existed prior to the big bang, but only after the event did time become interwoven with space, creating a reality that we are interpreting with our brains today. No one knows for sure why space is speeding up though. Gravity should eventually cause all of the matter to collapse back onto itself, once the initial energy of expansion has lessened.

Another hypothesis I have, although I do not know if it is in line with current scientific beliefs, and this compounds with my earlier mentioned idea...space is infinite.. The only thing that is really expanding is time, which is vital to our reality if we wish to perceive anything, or even exist for that matter.

Under these ideas, it doesn't matter if there is space in existence outside of time or not...we, or anyone else in the universe, wouldn't be able to experience it, or live in it, if time were not interwoven with space.
So space truly is nothingness, although our space has meaning both as an area, and as a function of time.

So based solely on my ideas, hypotheses, and interpretations, space IS infinite in itself, however, the space that most people think of, that which is interlinked with time, is NOT infinite, as it does have an endpoint on the edges of were time and space meet.

BUT, it IS infinite in that it will keep expanding, retaining kinetic energy, and for some reason its potential energy never decreases, and so therefore it is infinite in a sense. Again, these aren't widely held scientific beliefs or anything, only my personal ideas.

END: wild speculation

edit on 10/16/11 by JiggyPotamus because: Just fixing some stuff that was not correct, grammatically speaking.

What if that barrier, that science calls the edge of the Universe and which is moving away from earth at the speed of light, is Light created by our galaxy when it was born around 13 billion years ago and the reason We cannot see past/thru it is all matter on this planet has the same sub-atomic genetic coding as all matter in THIS galxy, which includes the Light Barrier 13 billion light years from us in all directions, and Source cannot beget Source. Anotherwords, We can't see past our Galactic Light Bubble because everything We use to see past/thru it, has the same sub-atomic DNA as the Light We are trying to pierce and because the DNA is the same, our signals are being bounced back off the Light. Also, if you think about it, if our galaxy was born, with a LITTLE BANG, from twin orbs of anti-matter and a bright light was emitted and is the barrier 13 million light years away, what speed would that Light be traveling away from us and why is it our galaxy is right in the middle of that Light Bubble?

Ribbit

The video does present compelling arguments for the existence of a Divine Creator. But I would be careful going further and stating that it proves the authenticity of the Bible as God's word. The Bible might carry some truth, but it also contains hateful passages and illogical stories which don't seem to emanate from a Divine Creator.

reply to post by nineix

This is opinion, and in my opinion, if someone can believe in a magical being that created the whole universe, then, there's no stopping at any rational, or real probabilities.

God can be believed for more reasons than simply fantasy. The Bible names the future in vivid detail. This alone is a reason to engage reason in favor of its message. The message of the Bible is love for others--even enemies. In our current world, we realize that this is the only message that resonates with truth for peace. The purpose of the Bible matches what we see around us. It matches the physics. LINK It matches the psychology of human nature. It changes hearts, heals families and mends lives back to productivity toward purpose. There are only a few reasons of the thousands that lead toward only one conclusion of faith in God. The myth is believing that God does not exist.

Other believers will believe it too, because, if they don't, then they're questioning their god, and questioning their god is a sin.

The Bible tells us to test all things and cling to what is good. A lifetime of testing the world will reveal what we see around us today. Life is empty apart from God and the love of a Christ-like approach to life.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
The video does present compelling arguments for the existence of a Divine Creator. But I would be careful going further and stating that it proves the authenticity of the Bible as God's word. The Bible might carry some truth, but it also contains hateful passages and illogical stories which don't seem to emanate from a Divine Creator.

There is no image in reality that can represent God. God specifically says that representing Him in material form is not true to Him and should not be worshiped. Is the Bible an image in the material world? YES Can it be completely accurate as an image of God? The answer no. Nothing in the material world can accurately reflect God. What we do realize is that man and God are both in the image. We must separate the darkness form the light. This will be true in life and it will be true for all that we can glean from what God leaves for us by example.

The Word of God is an image, as in a mirror. The only True and accurate Word of God was the Living Word of God. This is Jesus. He is the fulfillment of the central message of the Bible. Although the message also contains an accurate reflection of man, it is incorrect to say that God's image cannot be gleaned from the image of reality or the image of the written word. God and man are equally represented in the written word. What we see from the image depends on what we see in ourselves. The Bible is a mirror and mirrors always reflect what is presented in front of them. If we only see ourselves in the reflection, then we miss God standing right there beside us. LINK

Originally posted by daaskapital
reply to post by nutherdog

 

It's been proven by an Australian physicist that the universe is always expanding. He won the Nobel prize 2 weeks ago

Ok, but it still doesn't answer the question, "expanding into *what* and how big is that"?

reply to post by GmoS719


I happen to believe in God, and I truly believe that in so many instances Science proves God's word and so many things He speaks of in the bible. I think that every miracle and major event in biblical history could be proven with science. I think so many times science has found so many things that have been there since creation.. and I believe that it is because God does know all things, the end from the beginning and has placed everything we need right here on Earth for us. For instance, there is a drug created by man for heart disease, and I'm sorry I do not know what it is (maybe someone else does) the active ingredient in this life saving drug was discovered in the inner most parts of the "Rose". When it comes the the Big Bang Theory, it makes sense to me that it was God creating the earth.. I mean I think He is the most intelligent being ever and that he works in myserious and scientific ways!

Originally posted by nutherdog
reply to post by follow the evidence

 

I'm wondering, "how big is space"? Everybody talks about the big bang. Ok. But what did it "bang" into. How big is that?

It banged into the Nothing which is neither big nor small.
Read my signature

Originally posted by nutherdog

Originally posted by daas kapital
reply to post by nutherdog

 

It's been proven by an Australian physicist that the universe is always expanding. He won the Nobel prize 2 weeks ago

Ok, but it still doesn't answer the question, "expanding into *what* and how big is that"?

I would only say it is expanding for now, a time will come when it slows stops and reverses, the Big Crunch or Closed Universe Theory.
It was not to long ago that these Physicist thought that the Universe should be slowing down already, but really the Bang has just Occurred in the Cosmic sense and will not Crunch for what I see to be Trillions of years not mear Billions.

reply to post by followtheevidence


Actually can't believe this is being considered 'logical' in the slightest bit. FFS, it fails all over the place and it's time argument can easily be applied directly to God's supposed act of creation. Essentially, this video also disproves what it was trying to prove.

reply to post by sirnex
Lets see if you can do better, I thought vid was very good.
If we were not here discussing this then I might agree with you.

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by sirnex

 

Lets see if you can do better, I thought vid was very good.
If we were not here discussing this then I might agree with you.

I personally do not subscribe to the big bang model myself. With that said however, the video does fail with disproving the big bang right off the bat.

Everything came from nothing.

That statement shows a lack of either understanding of the big bang model or is a purposefully worded statement directed towards those who do not understand the theory itself. The big bang model makes no predictions of how the singularity came into existence, it's only explanation is about what happened after space/time began to expand.

AGAIN, I DO NOT BELIEVE THE BIG BANG MODEL TO BE FACTUAL OR ACCURATE AT ALL!

The other area where this simplistic despot of a video fails in it's explanation of change in regards to matter. How arrogant to assume that with infinite change that matter must exist within a finite parameter never changing itself in state/properties taking upon different properties we've yet to conceive ourselves and have yet to develop theoretical frameworks for.

The real peach however is when we get to the concept of time! Change the word time to god when you watch that part of the video again. Utterly fails in it's attempt to prove god. Remember, it's dealing with infinite time and attempting to prove god is the only infinite thing in existence. With infinite time, we never reach the moment of the big bang occurring.

With an infinite existing god, we never reach the moment of creation.

An interesting related vid for the mix:
How Science Saved My Soul

reply to post by theyreadmymind


Hmm no.. ha after 20 years i don't think i ever thought of it like that. I guess the immediate imagery was of the Sun and whatever it might represent.. But yeah could be the SON.

reply to post by sirnex
Interesting, but the Big Brains of today, I think Hawking included, are say the Universe occurred out of nothing and in turn a Anti Universe occurring at same time.
They also state that Time stops upon entering a Black Hole, or at time just prior to Bang. If Time did stop nothing would ever happen, I believe it just slows way down,
Really I find this whole thing is kind of depressing to me, if you knew everything you would be bored to death, and seems a very fine line.

reply to post by followtheevidence


I agree with the "everything came from nothing theory" If you know harmonics and sacred geometry...then it really did...It was a thought creation....that is all and nothing more.

Sure their are hierarchies...which people seem to like....but nothing in the way that you are currently understanding.

You are searching for your truth which is good...carry on my wayward soul!

P.S...don't trust anyone that drones on and on about this or that....

Say much in a few words, not less in many...~

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by sirnex

 

Interesting, but the Big Brains of today, I think Hawking included, are say the Universe occurred out of nothing and in turn a Anti Universe occurring at same time.
They also state that Time stops upon entering a Black Hole, or at time just prior to Bang. If Time did stop nothing would ever happen, I believe it just slows way down,
Really I find this whole thing is kind of depressing to me, if you knew everything you would be bored to death, and seems a very fine line.

edit on 16-10-2011 by googolplex because: w

Well, one of the greatest things with science is that we don't know everything and everything we think we know is never ever set in stone. Science, discovery, progress are all ever changing, never static.

Religion on the other hand, is as how you put it, pretty much boring. A set of answers given by a primitive peoples to answer the questions of their day. Religion has changed very very very little in regards to those answers and has yet to provide any tangible evidence for it's beliefs. Today's religious adherents rely upon nothing else but lack of understanding of today's science's explanations. Such as the OP's video attempted to do so,

Our universe is vast and woefully mysterious to us. We're trapped on one tiny insignificant rock among a sea of trillions upon trillions of stars with countless planets orbiting those stars. To assume we're the epiphany of all creation by adhering to some two thousand year old religion concocted by a group of primitive people is not only naive, but also narcissistic.

The issue with time, is it simply doesn't exist.

I challenge anyone to give one example of how time itself is measured.

TIME ITSELF

In other words, let's not bring up clocks hanging on a wall which is nothing more than a representation of earths revolution.

I'm talking about this supposed fourth dimension in which things supposedly flow through.

Time doesn't stop at all in a black hole, movement does. Change does.

There are only two things we know for certain that exist.

Existence and change.

Mull that over for a while.

reply to post by googolplex


Here is my theory on "super geniuses" cyberbots...maybe there are some that actually get it...most are controlled by the system....It is all a mask and it is all coming down....

reply to post by sirnex
To me time the Forth Dimension is simply the movement or change of a 3 D object moving in or changing in a 3 D Space.
Also to me Humans are very special in that they can look upon and realize Creation.
As for myself I am just doing time, others have the desire for me to be here not I.
The thought of being the One in the Nothing, would cause me to explode and try and forget everything.
It would seem being The Creator would be a lonely place, I hope upon being able to see past the veil I can find peace.

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by sirnex

 

To me time the Forth Dimension is simply the movement or change of a 3 D object moving in or changing in a 3 D Space.
Also to me Humans are very special in that they can look upon and realize Creation.
As for myself I am just doing time, others have the desire for me to be here not I.
The thought of being the One in the Nothing, would cause me to explode and try and forget everything.
It would seem being The Creator would be a lonely place, I hope upon being able to see past the veil I can find peace.

Well, for me the fourth dimension is a mathematical toy that serves no physical purpose nor has ever been proven to exist. Not even a true two dimensional or one dimensional object has been shown to exist outside of mathematical theory. Dimensions in my view or just mathematical toys. For me, things are just the way they are because that it is how they currently exist. I don't believe in dimensions or time or big bangs or nothingness. None of those things have ever been physically proven to exist or to have occurred.

To "realize creation", it just simply means that we have the capacity to think abstractly, we've also realized the big bang and evolution along with hundreds of other concepts. The capacity to think abstractly hardly makes us special. It's certainly doubtful that we are the only species within this huge universe that is capable of such a thing. Also more probable that we are not even the first!

I would also imagine that being an almighty creator would be far from a lonely existence. You would have the capacity to create something to keep you occupied. From living entities to anything you could imagine. Why would not such a creator create a world in which he could participate instead of one in which he simply watches from his heavenly throne only giving out miracles to primitive people? Think about it.