For The Jews the ORGINAL reason for the Messiah no longer exists !

Lets go back in history, why did the first century Jews want a messiah as prophesied in the old testament.
Their need was an independent Israel free of any domination and control by a world power, first it was Babylon, then even Greece, but especially the Roman Empire, eventually even the British Empire. We know Judea/Jerusalem suffered occupation and destruction twice, first by the Babylonians and then by the Romans in 70 CE.
The Jews desperately wanted a leader, sort of a warrior king that would lead to an independent free and strong nation of Israel, this person would be the Messiah.
When Jesus came it was a huge disappointment for the Jews, Jesus preached a message of peace, rejected the attempted kingship, and said my Kingdom is no part of this world. He would not fulfill their desires, so most Jews rejected him, there was a very small contingent that until 36 CE were exclusively Jews who did accept him.

Fast forward to the 21st Century, Israel is strong and free and instead of being attacked and occupied by the world power is actually highly supported by it. The Jews no longer need a Messiah, for what they wanted one for originally.

So I pose some questions, if you are of the Jewish faith are you still waiting for the original Messiah to appear?
If, yes, what do you think he will accomplish ?
How would these accomplishments differ form the Christian Messiah?

well, the Messiah already came, His name was Jesus of Nazerath.

and the second part of the prophesy is that He will return, to judge the living and the dead.

manmade borders and petty disputes that turn into full fledged bloodpaths will be the least of humanity's problems.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


The Messiah is for mankind and not simply Israel. Israel is the archetype of the law and salvation as a means of education for mankind. There is an overall picture here that you are not considering. First, it is important to broaden your perspective away from self and to the universe at large. We are children of God, placed here in a created reality. Your body is bio-mechanical. Your consciousness is a soul paired with God's spirit as the shepherd of your walk here in the garden of life. Each soul has another spirit to overcome. Development of sentience takes time and experience. We each have a choice of free will called faith. This faith is not fact. If it were fact, then creation would demand our duplicity. Reality demands ultimate justice and truth by true free will and not forced choice.

Faith and not fact is a means to allow us autonomy in living. If we were living under fact, then we would be obligated to make choices according to the ever-present knowledge of a higher power lurking above. This would set us up for duplicity. If we were to seek to please God for reward, then we would not be after God but the reward. If we were to seek to please God to avoid judgment, then we would be seeking our own gain and not God. Faith is a means of seeking God apart from any fact that can be verified. God demands that we find Him in love and appreciation for His truth. Living points the way and the spirit in us leads us to the proper conclusion when we are ready. A person must knock for the door to be opened. God is always knocking on our door.

Salvation comes by finding the answer. What is the answer? Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." Once you understand, then salvation comes for you. Love God and love others. We are to follow God's lead to find salvation. The Messiah is an awakening of the soul unto salvation from the material world. Every 2000 years, God does a work to lead man toward this salvation. The culmination and final judgment of mankind is coming soon. Jesus is the way. We make it out in His name. His name is His character of love toward others and God.

Take a look across the universe. The kingdom of God is you and it is also out there in the universe. This is our inheritance. The kingdom of God demands the law of love for faith to become fact. We are only children of God until we are no longer children.

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

The OP is correct - the Jews no longer want a Messiah. In fact, there is a tendency in Jewish theology to see themselves, the Jews collectively, as the Messiah.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Fast forward to the 21st Century, Israel is strong and free and instead of being attacked and occupied by the world power is actually highly supported by it. The Jews no longer need a Messiah, for what they wanted one for originally.

Good thread.
And yet, for some reason, christians who support this modern state of Israel are under the assumption that this state is the revived Old testament era Israel. Instead, it is human effort on the part of jews to recreate Israel.

Jewish definitions of the messiah hold that the jews will return to their homeland and that Israel will be restored AFTER he returns.
Instead, we already see what is restored Israel and a population of jews returned to that land.

Also, nuclear armed Israel are playing the role of the attackers and occupyers in this age. So the whole premise that they will once again be victims in the tribulation holds no water.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

The Messiah is for mankind and not simply Israel. Israel is the archetype of the law and salvation as a means of education for mankind. There is an overall picture here that you are not considering.

I never clearly explained my own personal belief in the OP, so I guess at least one poster would reply like this.
First, I knew decades ago that Jesus died for ALL mankind not just the Jews. And yes I see the whole picture I just never mentioned it. I am a christian who personally accepts Jesus as the Messiah. And I find Jews don't like to discuss this subject, because if you look at old testament prophesy it's like a laser pointing at Jesus Christ. Plus on top of that the goals of the Messiah to Israelite's have been met.

I assure you my studies of the bible and history have allowed me see the "overall picture" on the Messiah, posting them out in the OP would dilute the focus of this thread, which you seemed to have missed.

As expected none of the Jewish faith are responding, come on guys defend your faith !
Or at the very least give us your personal opinion.
Israeli information agents reading this thread are welcome to respond as well

Here is a theory.
About the only thing an earthly Jewish Messiah could do at this point is somehow kick the Muslims out of Jerusalem, get rid of the Mosque and build a new 21st century temple on Mount Zion. I guess that action could be considered Messianic in nature to the Jewish culture. But it would really disturb and perturb the Muslim world, probably causing a huge war.
What concerns me is I have read that this would also be viewed as Messianic in nature by some Christians.
To them I remind them the return of Jesus will benefit the entire world not just one geographical part of the world or one nation or one chosen nationality.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

About the only thing an earthly Jewish Messiah could do at this point is somehow kick the Muslims out of Jerusalem, get rid of the Mosque and build a new 21st century temple on Mount Zion

Dont be surprised if an Israeli/jewish war hero turns out to be the one they accept as the messiah... He will reduce arab states nearby to smoking craters.... and make Israel as a middle eastern superpower.... all with the backing of western government.
Also dont surprised if Israel obsessed christians see him as Jesus christ.

For them.... a heap of smouldering muslim corpses = the defeat of evil.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Since you brought up the question. I do have an answer to it. Put simply the Jews of the 1st century AD triggered the curse of Malachi. They killed or prevented Elijah the prophet from doing his part of the job. The job of Messiah being a 2 man job per Zechariah. And I would point out one other little detail. According to Malachi there was supposed to have been 3 chosen ones. The 3rd being the messenger of the covenant. Which would mean the prophesies of Zechariah and Malachi remain unfulfilled. Literally God's got to take another crack at the prophesies.

Curse of the Apocalypse.

And the 3rd guy needs his day in the spotlight.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

So I pose some questions, if you are of the Jewish faith are you still waiting for the original Messiah to appear?

I'm not a Jew but I have watched YouTube videos where Jews say things about what the Messiah would accomplish by coming. They realize that they are not truly following God because most Jews have no interest in religion other than how it gives then acceptance into the nation of Jews. They believe that if the Messiah did come, then it would cause all those nominal Jews to become devout followers of God instead of being more of a secular type Jew.