The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

Originally posted by TheRedneck
It actually sounds at times like you would be happier if I did support slavery. Perhaps that would somehow justify your narrow view of humanity?

I love how you keep using phrases like "narrow view of humanity", when you can't even accept why people view the flag with racist connotations tied to it. I guess everybody has a narrow view on humanity, except the very person who is ignorant to the fact, or is too stubborn to admit, that the flag they love, has racist connotations attached to it.

No, I've already said I get why you like the flag, and I have already said that not every person who flies the flag is a racist. But I do think that by blindly supporting it, and not acknowledging other people's opinions on it, and why they feel it to be racist, is you having a narrow view on humanity. I don't want you to support slavery, far from it, I just want you to admit that the flag has racist ties to it, whether you like it or not. But you can't. That's what blows my mind. Why is everybody supposed to understand your point of view, if you're being too stubborn to understand others? For you, you only want it to work one way: your way.

reply to post by TravisT

I can't believe you still don't get the difference...

I understand that some people view the flag as having racist connotations. That's fine; if you believe that, then don't fly the Confederate Flag. I choose to fly it, again, not because of any racial intent but as a celebration of who I am and of my history and culture. By doing so, I am judging no one, accusing no one, degrading no one.

You say you understand that the Confederate Flag does not always hold racist connotations, but yet you continue to belittle those who fly it without the racist intent. You associate the flying of a symbol, which you acknowledged does not necessarily equate to racism, with racism. By doing so, you prejudge those who fly it in honor of their heritage and in remembrance of their history, just as a skinhead might prejudge a black man based solely on the color of their skin.

I am not trying to change anyone except to educate them on why the flag is such a dear symbol in my culture. You, as I understand your posts, wish others to be prohibited from flying it, or at least that they be ostracized from society?

TheRedneck

The Dukes of Hazard Show has a car called The General Lee with a Rebal Flag on the roof. The show was also a movie so I don't think as a whole that many people really look at it as a racial issue.

To me who was born out west and raised in the South (Richmond, VA) it has been a symbol of rebellion and history. Enjoy!

Originally posted by relocator

The Dukes of Hazard Show has a car called The General Lee with a Rebal Flag on the roof. The show was also a movie so I don't think as a whole that many people really look at it as a racial issue.

Actually, if you go back and watch the movie, the confederate flag is brought up, and shown to have racist connotations tied to it. Right after the car gets painted, the Duke brothers are driving around Atlanta, unaware that they have a confederate flag on the roof of their car, and a lot of people are shocked and a bit pissed that they have the balls to be driving through Atlanta with a confederate flag on their car(either that, or they're just being ignorant to the fact. I can't remember, it's been YEARS since I've seen that movie). It was a satirical piece, that addressed the racist connotations that the flag now has attached to it.

In the video the lyrics go....

I've got style
Tearing through the curves
With my flag waving proudly to the people that I serve
I'm number 1 and I'll always be
The pride of the South they call the General Lee

Well here's some folks in VA you can relate too...

The city received hundreds of complaints in January, the last time Confederate flags were planted in holders on light poles, to mark Lee-Jackson Day, a state holiday. People complained "that displaying the Confederate flag is very hurtful to groups of people," Ellestad said. "In their mind, it stands for the defense of slavery."

"In their mind"....it's all in the mind what you want it to mean. I prefer a more positive outlook. Negitivity does nothing for me.

Source

Originally posted by imitator
reply to post by sonnny1

 

The root of slavery was DURING the war to attack the southern economy, it was more about the southern economy than slavery. The south wanted to become a sovereign "industrialized" nation.... Had the north did nothing about southern secession, the south could become a more powerful industrialized nation than the north.

Stephens' March 1861 speech declared that African slavery was the "immediate cause" of the Civil War, and that secession had put to rest the "agitating questions" as to the "proper status of the negro in our form of civilization".

Excerpts:

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell.

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.


Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens Savannah, Georgia on March 21, 1861


LINK

Other then the CSA Constitution, this is another damning piece of history,concerning the reason of the war.

I was raised in South & Proud of it! The Rebel Flag was always apart of it so I guess yall our going to have to deal with it. Enjoy while I show my Southern Pride!

reply to post by sonnny1


The fact is the first shot at Fort Sumter wasn't over a slave or slavery. You have to be careful using wikipedia, and just giving one mans view of southern slavery.

It's simple, it was over trade, tariffs and sovereign independence, the first shot was over South Carolina's independent status. Abraham Lincoln didn't want to look like a weak fool over her secession and started a war against an enemy who had no military. Lincoln never imagined the south fighting back like it did.

Hmmmmm........Another site perhaps? More Proof? Others who felt as strongly as him ?You,as some others in this thread have given opinion,as your facts.I have given documents,and proof.Date stamped for your convenience. I dont need to give you more, do I?

Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect, in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material-the granite; then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is best, not only for the superior, but for the inferior race, that it should be so. It is, indeed, in conformity with the ordinance of the Creator. It is not for us to inquire into the wisdom of His ordinances, or to question them..............................

Cornerstone Speech
Whole Speech(not WIKI)

This man was the vice President of the CSA. His words damn a race of people to slavery.PERIOD. If ANY President,or current Vice President spoke like this,would you give him a pass,even if it meant STATE RIGHTS,or PRIDE in conviction to secede? These were the very men picked as leaders. Swore under a Confederate flag,and swore under a Constitution that supported this. That, you cannot fake,takeaway,or make up.


I dont mind a flag,personally flying high,based on southern pride,but if there are those who are so blind,to revise history,to say it didnt happen this way,well all I can say is DENY IGNORANCE.

reply to post by sonnny1


I find it quite amusing how when someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you bust a gasket and go bonkers trying like hell to persuade others how you are right and they are wrong. Face it Sonny, I DISAGREE with you and with femalepharoh. Now get busy!! Lets see how long I can keep you occupied trying to prove whatever it is you are trying to prove. It may keep you up at night knowing there are people in this world who DISAGREE with you, get over it, I will never agree with you and to quote FP, "your kind."

Originally posted by tankerpilot
reply to post by sonnny1

 

I find it quite amusing how when someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you bust a gasket and go bonkers trying like hell to persuade others how you are right and they are wrong. Face it Sonny, I DISAGREE with you and with femalepharoh. Now get busy!! Lets see how long I can keep you occupied trying to prove whatever it is you are trying to prove. It may keep you up at night knowing there are people in this world who DISAGREE with you, get over it, I will never agree with you and to quote FP, "your kind."

Its great that you disagree with me,but dont lump me in with some other poster in this thread. You can call "your" idea of the CSA whatever way you like to. I call it revisionist history. I dont have to persuade anyone,when the facts are laid out for all to see.

BTW,you need to read the date on the last post.......I didnt wait up for you....................

reply to post by sonnny1


Oh I looked at the dates there sonny boy. ALL of them. It does seem that you have let this keep you up on several occasions. Tonight being another. I lump you with FP because your level of ignorance is on a level equivalent to hers. I do not base my self esteem on getting the LAST word in an internet chat room. Maybe you should reread your signature. I AM laughing AT you.

reply to post by tankerpilot


Look,I dont have a problem with you or your thinking,even if i view it as wrong.. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Again,You did want the last word,so its yours again. I wont post anymore in this thread. e...........Hopefully you believe in the Mantra.....

These are the ATS members who often disagree with me, but challenge me to think harder and push myself to learn more in my quest to deny ignorance..

sonnny1

Here is something I found interesting, it's about the Confederate flag being on license plates in Texas, to honor their ancestors on the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War. However the NAACP thinks it as a swastika? A mock plate was posted on a Houston DMV's website with 186 in favor, 3 against.

www.chron.com...

www.kfdm.com...

blog.chron.com...

reply to post by sonnny1


The Civil War did not begin as a war of abolition, and while the question of slavery was certainly answered, the preservation of the Union was the primary goal. There were many paths to acquire abolition, I personally like the British plan of reimbursing the slaveholders for market value of their chattel. As a result of our history here in the South, we have a unique sense of culture that continues to evade many of our American brethren; of most relevance to this topic, is our love for the Rebel flag. The Citadel cadets here in South Carolina still love 'Big Red,' (the Red palmetto flag flown after the firing on Sumter), and I think the SC Secession flag also has a certain aesthetic appeal to it -- the point being, there's more than just the Stars and Bars.

To me, it means resistance to a Federal government and loyalty to your neighbor -- standing up to the big guy, even when you're an underdog. It's a REBEL flag. And through 150 years of history, despite constant attempts to tarnish and stain its decency, it's still here because it represents who we are. The South. Our American melting pot Southern fried and served with grits.

This topic caught my eye, and I really wanted to post a video and catch some reactions. Do you find the imagery in this video racist? South Carolina Rap

Lincoln had NO intentions on freeing the slaves in the US Civil War.

The South wanted States to have Rights, the North wanted a Federal Government with absolute control.


Lincoln HAD to get Russia's help. Russia demanded Lincoln end Slavery if they helped. The ENTIRE Russian Atlantic and Pacific Naval Fleets then ported in Union ports and helped Lincoln end the push for State's Rights.


American History books have fairy tales saying Lincoln "wanted to free the slaves".......but they never mention Russia helped create the America we have today....States have no sovereignty/ rights.....One Fascist Federal Republic.

Slavery still exists in America today. Back then slave owners had to cloth, house, and feed slaves.

Today the costs are passed on to the tax payers. Section 8, Welfare, and free healthcare to the illegals working the fields.

Meanwhile citizens lost property rights, Civil Rights, right to live in a home........and the country has gone downhill ever since.

Thank Russia....and Lincoln.