How should I feel about the flaws and failures of others?

Pride in my own ability to avoid their fate?
Pity that they are so unfortunate?
Sad that I cant help them?
Anger that they cant figure it out for themselves?
Indifference because their problems are not my problems?
Love because they are the same as me?

What about when their flaws affect your life?
Should you just learn from that?
Are the problems that they cause the lesson, or are they themselves the lesson?
Should you learn to avoid them? or should you learn to embrace them?
What is the true path?

Do I only learn from my fate and my path?
Or do I choose my fate and path by how i choose to apply what I have learned?

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
Pride in my own ability to avoid their fate?
Pity that they are so unfortunate?
Sad that I cant help them?
Anger that they cant figure it out for themselves?
Indifference because their problems are not my problems?
Love because they are the same as me?

What about when their flaws affect your life?
Should you just learn from that?
Are the problems that they cause the lesson, or are they themselves the lesson?
Should you learn to avoid them? or should you learn to embrace them?
What is the true path?

Do I only learn from my fate and my path?
Or do I choose my fate and path by how i choose to apply what I have learned?

Do what you want, everybody has different reactions.

There is no right or wrong way.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim
How should I feel about the flaws and failures of others?

You could realise that your benefits and successes are flaws and failures from an other man´s perspective.

Does that make sense?? Just waking up here, time for coffee....

Will give it some more thought.

Peace

reply to post by BohemianBrim

The questions you are asking can only be answered by you. These are the kind of things that define you as a person and IMO if you let anyone else answer those for you, you become one of the famous "sheeple" you hear about so much. BUT on the other hand, you have to keep the ability to analyse and learn from the mistakes of others. If not you are doomed to repeat them.

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by BohemianBrim

 

The questions you are asking can only be answered by you. These are the kind of things that define you as a person ....

yes, and i want to know what everyone's answers are, i want people to try and define themselves.

this world has many definitions, but there doesnt seem to be much thought behind them.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


i would try to use words to educate them where they are going wrong or how their actions effect others, it does not have to be direct or lead to an arguement if you just drop things in normal conversations.

some people are not aware of their flaws and some people don't know why they keep failing, some people need good friends to point these things out so they can change or see where they are going wrong or that they are effecting somebody.

i use to talk-shout, or talk loudly, i had no idea it just sounded normal to me, but once it was pointed out and i was made aware it bugged people, i took step to talk more calmly, and now i no longer talk loudly as i have learned to control it. but if i was not made aware i would of never of known i was doing it or that it annoyed some people. its the way people tell you rather than what they say.

I agree with earlier comments that this is something that is very much a personal decision, but I will offer advice for you to take or leave.

One should look at the flaws of others in two lights..

* Projection - sometimes we see the flaws in others most prominantly when we recognize those flaws in ourselves. In this case, we must try to understand what it is about that flaw that bothers us so much and learn to understand that in others.. it's not their fault that we are broken.

* Lessons Learned - all flaws will eventually lead to a lesson hopefully to be learned from. If the person you observe cannot learn from it, at least you can.

Ultimately, you should never permenantly judge others from their flaws. After all, their lives are their own. But we can learn to be better people from the mistakes of others and hopefully be a role model to encourage others to move past their own flaws.

usually, the faults and failures you notice in other people are subconsciously faults and failures that you have, or are afraid to have

think about that

You are dealing with the problem of other minds. How is it possible to know about the quality of another persons inner experience? Or at all? Or even that other people have inner experiences?

Just because a person experiences something, does not mean that another persons experience of the same event is quantatively the same. Even though the physical manifestations of ones experiences can be percieved it does not mean that the person observing the physical manifestations can quantifu the experience, based on their own perceptions.

So; when it comes to the flaws and failures of others, perhaps you should be indifferent and understand that everything that another person is experiencing....both phsically and mentally could be so different than your own, and the parameters by which they define their experience are different also. I could go on and on, but I can barely form sentences this late in the evening, I have had a few, you know? Would you judge me?

reply to post by BohemianBrim

You want US to tell YOU how you should feel? I hope you're being rhetorical!

You can feel any way you want. But it sounds like you are really asking what WE THINK about the flaws and failures of others.

"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

(First International Edition)

The problem comes when they are in your face or getting in your way and you can't for the life of you figure out what's going on with them. Now, I was taught to tolerate the foibles of others; but it can get pretty intense some times.

That's why so many people get into psychology. They want to understand what's going on. I tried a little of that. Then I let someone sell me a little Dianetics book. That was close enough for me.

Learn to communicate with people and understand them and you won't have to worry and figure-figure about it so much any more.

I have witnessed perfectly able people waste large amounts of their life simply because they were too afraid to walk up to someone they were wondering about and just get into communication with them.

I've had people sit down in front of me and just start confiding their inner secrets to me, which is kind of different. But that's really not enough. Because most people go around wearing a coat that they would prefer to keep on and have you admire, no matter how hot it gets in the room. And you won't begin to understand someone until they are willing to sit down and take that coat off and just be comfortable with you.

But there are a lot of cases where you don't have to go that deep. I saw an actress once playing a deaf woman. She was so convincing; I couldn't understand how she did it. Then I found out she really was deaf. So sometimes you just have to be willing to be a little curious and you'll get the answers you need to understand the situation better.

Originally posted by BohemianBrim

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by BohemianBrim

 

The questions you are asking can only be answered by you. These are the kind of things that define you as a person ....

yes, and i want to know what everyone's answers are, i want people to try and define themselves.

this world has many definitions, but there doesnt seem to be much thought behind them.

Most of the things you asked are about how think of or relate to other people. Well, my answer is, I spent most of my life running around like a chicken with my head cut off worrying about what other people thought and trying to see how I fit into that. Then I had a kid. I realized non of that really even matters at all. The only person whos actions and thoughts I concern myself with now are hers. I can honestly care less what other people are doing or how they are living anymore. Don't get me wrong, I do have an intrest in what goes on in peoples heads, that why I am on ATS. But none of it REALLY matters to me anymore.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Some of man's greatest achievements have been the product of past failures. Perfection is unattainable, it is an ideal to which we all strive.

You should feel good about flaws in others, it means their human!

reply to post by BohemianBrim


i suggest you see what your personality type is. Personally I'm [ENTP] i will explain what that means later. Go to the link humanmetrics.com... its a test with 75 questions and it will explain your personality type. LOL dont worry its yes no questions bubble form. I had to do it for psychology class so im not selling anything and it's not my website also I'm not getting paid for advertizing so go easy mods

Interesting that you would post something like this because I have been dealing with this same question due to an event that has touched my life.

A friend of mine, her son, who is in his mid twenties, was in a horrible car accident. I've known these people for about 12 years now, and the guy who was in this accident was a reckless lead foot. He was driving recklessly at high speeds, down a road he was not familiar with, without his seat belt on, seeing what his latest car could do (this was his 4th car wreck), when he lost control and hit a large oak tree.

Needless to say, he is screwed now if he survives and probably better off dead with all the medical issues he will face. I should feel pity and sorrow at his situation, but I don't, I'm angry that he was so selfish to disregard his own safety without a thought of the pain it would cause his family and friends. Of course he is a halfwit, it wasn't a suicide attempt, just jackassing around in a new car, a prime candidate for the Darwin Awards in my opinion.

This attitude I have about this situation bothers me, I should feel sad and even shed some tears for this poor guy, but instead I'm pissed and rather indifferent. I even had hoped he would pass away and save his family the never ending hardship of his possible recovery. What kind of heartless prick am I?

Edit to add: Very timely post for me, starred and flagged.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Doesnt this depend on the situation? The circumstances of their failure? I do not believe there are one size fits all reactions to the misfortunes around, it boils down to the kind of scenerio, and many of them have typical or natural reactions. The post above me about being angy to reckless driving is one example.

I share your pain dude. Just know that you are not alone.

I would like to know the answers to these questions myself.

Realize that everybody is flawed, ignore other peoples flaws as best you can and hope they respond in kind.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Basically we all have flaws. Maybe it just my personality type and the fact i can never really make up my mind lol but at the end of a relationship it's almost always the flaws in a girl i miss. Think about it for a second the small flaws always get to you once they are gone.

My personal perspective is this-

In general, personality characteristics are neither flaws nor weaknesses in themselves, they can become failures or problems in relation to goals and intents.

We do not all have the same goals and intents. To further scramble the issue, we often have goals and intents which are at odds with each other- our conscious awareness has one intent, the subconscious intends it’s opposite, and we end up striving for one thing and then sabotaging our efforts, because of this schism.

The only way to be able to guess whether someones choices of act and behavior is a problem for them is if they are unhappy or complain about the circumstances or experiences they create for themselves. Then it usually means there is a schism or internal conflict going on. They think they want one kind of experience, but are unaware that their subconscious has a different agenda.

I see no reason you are obligated to do anything about it for mild cases- meaning if their actions aren’t going to bring about harm or death to another or themselves (those extreme cases require response as social beings with the duty to protect our herd).

But if you happen to be person with the desire to aid others, (a neutral personality trait, which can be positive or negative depending upon how well you have mastered it) then it is a case by case question- depends upon your role in relation to them, depends upon their will to be aided, which must be respected.
Do not even bother if they have no complaint and express that they are perfectly at peace with their behavior and the experiences they create for themselves. Their conscious and subconscious are in sync.
If they are complaining of victimization, or not liking what they are getting through their behaviors, there is a schism. But that does not mean that they will be open to acknowledging and working on bringing these parts to light and creating some compromises between them !

Most of the time, the subconscious intents are sub-conscious for a reason ! They do not WANT to acknowledge them ! So they can react violently at having those rise to the surface.
I observe that we often push some desires into the subconscious because we have moral judgements against them.... like a desire to be dependant and protected is considered « bad », so repressed (but still active and striving for that subconsciously).
Or they are repressed because they concern fears that they feel powerless to master, so wish to just deny altogether.

If you are in a position to help an individual who is claiming they are unhappy with their created experiences, and you can see an internal conflict pulling them different ways, you can help bring the subconscious motivations to their awareness...... but be prepared, you will not be liked or met with any appreciation for that. It may cause them discomfort. YOU may be then seen as the enemy sabotaging them, that up to then has been a mysterious element, projected upon different people or events each time the sabotage happens. It could still help them in the long run, but most likely you will not be there to see that, and will not be acknowledged as playing any part in their « revelation ». You choose this route, you’d be better off not having any desire to be recognized by others as an aid or help.

If your position or role is one of leadership- a teacher, employer, parent, then you can be more direct and play a more direct role in their life. For example, a teacher can pin point that a problematic personality trait in a student is actually a characteristic that needs a certain context and exercises to become something they master and make a strength instead of weakness, so that teacher can put them into certain roles, give them certain duties, which will set them on the road to developing those characteristics in a positive way.

Otherwise, you can only bring some awareness and leave the work up to the individual. What they do with it is their business, and trying to force them to do anything with it is usually a waste of time. We all have the inherent need to fight for our self mastership and revolt against take overs by others.

Most of all, before even attempting to do anything for others in this way, knowing the self first is most important !!!!! The removing of the beams from your eye before trying to remove the splinters in anothers is a valid concept. This is no simple thing, it is never « done » and is not just being a sort of introspective character. It requires years sometimes of isolation and deep, deep introspection, to dive to the depths of ones own subconscious, then a long time of bringing it into sync with your consciousness.

I tend to see this something like setting out on learning to ride and train a horse. Many people think they know how to do this because they went out on a few rental horse trail rides.... they are dangerously mistaken. Those horses are following the habits and roads they are accustomed to and you aren’t much more then a backpack that wiggles sometimes and they’ve learned to ignore. This is what it is when you are doing a self analyzation that is superficial- you are still riding upon the values, and ideas, that have been conditioned into you and remain a blinder.

To learn to master horsemanship, YEARS of serious work, putting many hours into being honest, being receptive, facing fears and risks (often getting hurt in the process) is necessary. A spiritual awakening is not for the faint of heart. Often you need to go crazy to become sane. The subconscious « horse » within you is powerful and skittish.

Just like the way some people realize that and just decide to stay off of them, some people have the same reaction when it dawns on them that deep learning of the self is that risky and difficult.

And that is a valid decision. Someone who doesn’t know how to ride, I would advise to just stay off horses altogether, unless they have the time and passion to undergo the years of training. I’d say to them, just do other things that interest you more.
Same with trying to break or train other peoples « horses » (minds). Mind your own, keep it in it’s pen, or walk on a lead rope from time to time, but stay out of other peoples business. You and they could come out worse for it.