My Country Tis of Thee, Drowning in Hypocrisy...

Well if you want to base it off of facts then you need to go back and revise your whole thread.

First you assume that the Executive Branch controls the purse strings, when in fact it is congress. So if you want to start go around and screaming hypocrisy, then first look at the branch of government and the party it was controlled by that is responsible for spending, which would be the legislative branch. The other thing you need to look at is the fact that current administration spending doesn't really start to show in the numbers until 2 years into the next administrations numbers, meaning the statistics lag the election by two years.

Once you do that then we can talk about facts and who has the better fiscal policy.

Not to mention I'm not sure how you can throw in the Tea Party when they are a new political party and are currently serving their first term in government. So when you go around throwing out claims of hypocrisy make sure your bashing of the right isn't so transparent.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


You presentation is very well put together, but you are aiming at the wrong target.

Does where the blame lies for our massive federal debt really matter? After all our debt is based on a fiat monetary system, i.e. air! Why is it so important to blame one party or the other? When it should be clear that the political system in this country is theater in which we all are actors in. The blame lies in our political system, not a party, it lies in the media manipulation and our apathy, ignorance and stupidity. I don't need charts to tell you that. Our system has been corrupted and has been for many years and the blame for the so called debt cannot rest solely on one factor.

You say that Fox news and NewsCorp are the evil empire...really? All by themselves, huh?

Check who owns what media outlets:
www.freepress.net...

and this:
www.neatorama.com...

Seems like ALL or our media is spoon feed to us by a select few doesn't it? And it may be even stranger to think that a lot of the owners of these few media empires belong to the same elite social clubs but they do:

www.libertylobby.org...

and list of the Bilderberg Attendees for 2009:
333crucible.wordpress.com...

and list of the Bilderberg Attendees for 2010:
splinteredsunrise.wordpress.com...

and list of the Bilderberg Attendees for 2011:
cryptome.org...

And finally a list of the members of the Council on Foreign Relations:
www.cfr.org...

You will find not only Media tycoons but prominent royalty, politicians and most of all bankers on these rosters. Why is this important? Because while you bark back and forth about the political rifts in this country and who deserves more of the blame, these groups (the real orchestraters of this debt) are continuing on with their grand plans free from scrutiny. Why? Because we are squabbling about the left and the right.

I am tired of hearing the left sucks, the right sucks, or the tea party sucks. All these political thread eventually devolve into this crap, which leads nowhere. And then a new thread on a new day with the same devolution and spiteful and hateful rhetoric. This is endless circle, a dog chasing it's tail, and in the end is absolutely pointless.

reply to post by Timing


To quote Harry Truman: The Buck Stops Here... While the Congress has a great deal to do with the proposing of spending, it requires the approval of the Executive Branch, i.e. the President. I cannot think of a single time that Congress has gotten a Budget past a Presidential veto... In fact, it's a rare, rare thing when Congress overrides a Presidential veto of any type... Also, it's the White House, not the Capital, that gets all the blame for such items...

And if you got facts, feel free to source them, otherwise your argument is invalid... NEXT!

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Pervius

 

I stopped reading your post after your first point. Since it was pure crap there was no need to read further.

This is how I felt about your post. You call yourself a centrist, yet completely ignore all the vile rhetoric coming from Obama, the Democrat party and they're slavish media (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR). Its clear you have an agenda and that agenda is diverting attention away from the horrible job Democrats have done while in power since 2006.

By the way, why didnt I see you in this thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Spare me your fake outrage about the one network that doesnt pray at the alter of the Democrat party. Guys like you wave your arms around about Fox, but are just fine with the Democrat party propaganda machine that is run by the rest of the MSM.

reply to post by bphi1908


I was not excluding the other news outlets... They are also the puppets of Big Business. However, Fox News IS the voice and champion of the neo-cons, and they were the focus of this thread... MSNBC makes me equally as nauseous with its OBVIOUS bias and slant...

reply to post by Gannicus


And you are ignoring the horrendous job the Republican Neo-cons have done with power since they hijacked the party in 1980! But thanks for stopping by and proving my point concerning hypocrisy and rhetoric!

Originally posted by Gannicus

By the way, why didnt I see you in this thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

No, you didn't... Never saw that thread, or you before just now... you might actually want to verify something before you make accusations... But then again, you are just proving my point... Presenting thoughts as facts... added response to edit of post being responded too...

Also, fantastic job of spamming your own thread here! You are strong with the FAIL!

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


I realize the futility of arguing with a die hard ideologue such as yourself. You completely ignore that Democrats have been calling the shots since 2006 and you're presenting a slanted case in order to deflect blame.

reply to post by Gannicus


The only ideologue here is you... I've got plenty of problems with the Dems, starting with that piece of crap Healthcare Law... As usual, those of you with partisan chips on your shoulders see things as only black and white, which I hate to break it to you, isn't true! 90% of the world is gray. You are just as much a sheeple of the Corporatocracy as those who cling to the Left... You are just too blind to see, even when it's put right in front of you like it was in the OP...

There is now right vs. left, there are only government paid shills #ing your nation, and preoccupying your mind with such ideas of blue vs. red.

You know, I just remembered something from my childhood. Almost every single adult I've ever heard politics from at the time, was in the habit of voting in 1 party for the presidency and the opposite party for the the HOR and Senate, just so they would have to work with their enemy while in office--and had done that their entire life. I quit hearing that stance by the time Bush was in office--even from the same people.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

I'll pick incompetent over bat crap crazy any day of the week!

How low you've set your bar for your elected officials.

In fact, it's a rare, rare thing when Congress overrides a Presidential veto of any type... Also, it's the White House, not the Capital, that gets all the blame for such items... And if you got facts, feel free to source them, otherwise your argument is invalid... NEXT!

You are wrong and I do have facts that are, quite easily sourced. See below:

www.aafp.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

I found those with google and 20 seconds, seems like you just don't want to find anything that might contradict your thesis... NEXT!

I was not excluding the other news outlets... They are also the puppets of Big Business. However, Fox News IS the voice and champion of the neo-cons, and they were the focus of this thread... MSNBC makes me equally as nauseous with its OBVIOUS bias and slant...

Yeah, it's amazing how those silly facts get in the way, isn't it? I'm a Centrist, but the hypocrisy coming out of the Right makes me want to scream!

By the very exclusion of your opposition to other media outlets you have invalidated your claim of being a "centrist". You completely ignored my first post about the flaws in the system, because your words still indicate to me that you think our national problems can be fixed by voting in Democrats.

MSNBC makes me equally as nauseous with its OBVIOUS bias and slant...

I've got plenty of problems with the Dems, starting with that piece of crap Healthcare Law...

You are just as much a sheeple of the Corporatocracy as those who cling to the Left

WTF are talking about? First Fox news is the devil then when confronted on your views you agree that oh yeah there are just as many problems with other networks. And to further your case that you are no lefty you say the healthcare law sucks. And the cherry on the top call our political system a "Corporatocracy"

and while I find the current Administration incompetent, I'll pick incompetent over bat crap crazy any day of the week!

So is our system incompetent or is it being run by corporations (making it a Fascist state by definition)?
If, by your own assertion, it is run by corporations why on earth would you vote EITHER one of our current political parties into office if both parties are controlled by corporations? Or claim our debt problems have been caused by Fox news and republicans?

I am truly confused.......

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Doesn't matter the Congress has the power to override a presidential veto. Doesn't matter what you have to say about it.

You are also very aware of the facts. I know this because you wouldn't have been able to write this thread without coming across that information. Which is why you chose to omit those facts because they are inconvenient to your thread of "facts".

Originally posted by Timing
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

You forget that the congress has the power to override the veto.

Umm, that is exactly what he said:

In fact, it's a rare, rare thing when Congress overrides a Presidential veto of any type

reply to post by Aggie Man


I went back and edited my post.

It still doesn't make up for the fact that he is trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes with a fiscally responsible republican controlled congress during Clinton's term and accredit it to the democrats, and trying to take a fiscally irresponsible democrat controlled congress and attribute it to a republicans.

It is intellectually dishonest and isn't fact. Just because you would like to believe that a president controls the purse strings doesn't make it so.

Originally posted by bphi1908
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

In fact, it's a rare, rare thing when Congress overrides a Presidential veto of any type... Also, it's the White House, not the Capital, that gets all the blame for such items... And if you got facts, feel free to source them, otherwise your argument is invalid... NEXT!

You are wrong and I do have facts that are, quite easily sourced. See below:

www.aafp.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

I found those with google and 20 seconds, seems like you just don't want to find anything that might contradict your thesis... NEXT!

First of all, the quoted reply was not to you, so please try to dismount from your high horse. Secondly, your sources only proved that what I said was correct. Only 16 veto overrides in over 30 years does indeed prove that it is a rare thing. If it were common, it would be 16 a year, not one every two years... Nice try, but FAIL!

I am truly confused.......

I would use the term clueless, but confused works too... It seems that according to those of you on the Right, someone in the Center cannot have negative views about Neo-cons and still be a Centrist... This is a completely delusional and ignorant rationale.

If you don't see how Corporations are buying your government through Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups, you need to question what the hell you are doing here on ATS in the first place. This has to be THE most obvious conspiracy in America... But then again, you seem to be complaisant with those who seek to maintain control over the masses...

reply to post by Timing


Don't whine and bitch about it, PROVE IT! I have asked you repeatedly to show us this magic source material, and you just come back and whine some more! Either your point is crap, or you are just too damn lazy to put forth a well thought out, sourced and provable argument... I will full well admit that the Clinton/Gingrich pairing was a damn good thing, but in the end, the buck stops on the Resolute Desk, no matter what party controls Congress!

Now put up, or shut up! All you've done so far falls under the definition of "Political Trolling"... If you have a point, PROVE IT! I put lots of data to prove my point... Or was the previous poster correct when they called facts "Conservative Kryptonite"???

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


It's easy to prove.

Under Clinton it was a Republican Controlled Congress. Under Bush it was a Democrat controlled congress. I shouldn't have to provide any sources as this is all common knowledge.

But if you so insist. My source Google Just type in 'Republican Controlled Congress under Clinton, and Democrat controlled congress under Bush."

Do I also need to link the US Constitution while I'm at it?

And No the Buck doesn't stop at the Desk. As the US Constitution points out that Congress has the power to override presidential Veto's just because the Congress doesn't use this power doesn't have any affect upon that fact.

Also, this whole thread is blatant political trolling. You have attempted to spin the entire way the US Government works in order to fit your political agenda.

reply to post by Timing


No you need to prove your point, not just spread a bunch of rhetoric... DO YOUR OWN DAMN RESEARCH! I DID!

And it's apparent you haven't a CLUE how our Government actually works...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Timing

 

No you need to prove your point, not just spread a bunch of rhetoric... DO YOUR OWN DAMN RESEARCH! I DID!

I'm not spreading rhetoric, I'm spreading facts.

How long as the Tea Party had any power in congress? There are only about 80 Tea Party members in the Congress. How can the Tea Party have any blame put towards them when they haven't had any power to prove their positions?

In case you are unaware of History the Republicans controlled the congress under Clinton, as the Democrats controlled the Congress under Bush.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Claiming to be a centrist,All I see in the main thread is the bashing of Republicans,rich and wealthy. How about composing this thread,or making one that would make a Centrist proud,and put the Democrat's in their also. They are rich,wealthy,and have their share of bringing this country to its knees also.



Star and Flag for the useful info,by the way.......