Porton Down

Going down to Stone Henge the weekend so I might pop over to Porton Down for a look as I have never seen it before. Here is an image I got from MultiMap for the Porton Down postcode. Notice the "Danger Area" when I hovered over the area.

I also found this statement interesting:

Bruce George, chairman of the Commons Defence Committee, said it would be "misleading" to say the parliamentary committee knew everything that was going on at the Porton Down base in Wiltshire and that "It's too big for us to know, and, secondly, there are many things happening there that I'm not even certain ministers are fully aware of, let alone parliamentarians." news.bbc.co.uk...

Does anyone have any interesting stories on Porton Down like the one on Rudloe Manor here: abovetopsecret.com...





[edit on 20-8-2004 by The Hunter]

I have never heard of this place. I am assuming it is some kind of military research base, but could you give a little more of an overview?

Originally posted by bzap
I have never heard of this place. I am assuming it is some kind of military research base, but could you give a little more of an overview?

I am back from my weekend adventure!

Porton Down is a highly secretive bio-chemical loboratory located in Porton, Wiltshire. It has been all over the BBC recently becasue of illegal experiments that they did on servicemen. Just go to the BBC website and type in Porton Down.

Anyway, I am back. I have a few photos and 4 video clips but I am working out how to put the clips on the net. The pictures of the main entrances are on video but I iwll work out how to freese frame and post them. There were sights saying "BEWARE Guard Gods", "phototography is prohibited" etc.

Porton is protected with a fence all the way arount it and past the fence all around is a bank you cannot see over. For miles around Porton Down their is not one spot where you can see over the top (this is stated on an entrance sign also.) The arial photo I got above is the best you'll get but Porton Down is a huge underground facility.

Anyway, for those that are interested, as we sped past in a case, this is the roading leading past Porton Down:



We went all around then came back again. On our way back a screaming police car pulled us over. After the original reaction of of having to change ones trousers all he wanted oti know was whether we had seen a car smash on the other side.

















[edit on 23-8-2004 by The Hunter]

[edit on 23-8-2004 by The Hunter]

Nice pics Hunter! I've been researching Porton Down for the last 7 years and you'd be amazed what they get up to!

During the 50s they frequently sprayed the UK with a chemical (zinc cadmium sulphide). This was done to simulate a germ warfare attack. Then from 1963-1975 Porton sprayed massive amounts of live bacteria from a ship sailing in Lyme Bay (the ship was the ETV ICEWHALE). The bacterial cloud would then be carried onshore by the wind and was sampled by mobile Porton teams inland in Dorset Hampshire Wiltshire Devon and Somerset. The bacteria sprayed were E.coli MRE162 and Bacillus subtilis.

They still spray clouds of these organisms on the Porton Range...obviously they get carried on the wind over the roads you photographed

Well done for taking a look...most people don't realise that the UK has a Chemical and Biological warfare centre.

Here are a few links to some of my Porton Down research that I managed to get published.

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...
Radioactive gas released in tests

Rob Evans
Friday September 13, 2002
The Guardian

Military scientists sprayed radioactive plumes across miles of English towns and villages into the outskirts of London in a series of secret trials, it emerged yesterday.
The trials were conducted by government scientists as they sought to develop defences against biological weapons. The radioactive gas had been mixed with a simulant chemical to mimic the effect of germ warfare clouds.


news.bbc.co.uk...
'Millions exposed' in 1960s experiments


Radioactive gas was flung from Harwell

By Mike Thompson
Presenter, BBC Radio 4's Document programme

During the early 1960s millions of people were exposed to clouds of radioactive xenon gas from the Harwell Nuclear Research Establishment, the BBC has discovered.
The gas was sprayed from the top of an incinerator stack at the Oxfordshire facility.

Over four lunchtimes in July 1961, men in white body suits released large clouds of the gas over English towns and villages to help estimate what effect a biological or chemical warfare attack would have on Britain.

Until now nobody outside of a select few ever knew what they did, why they did it or what the implications for public health could be.

Secret document

The details have long been hidden away in document PTP 794, which has never been made public before.

The BBC was tipped off about the existence of the document, which was kept among records at the Met Office.

There is a finite chance, however small, of people suffering from cancer or genetic damage after inhaling this substance



After a vocal campaign by Dorset residents the MOD commissioned an Independent Inquiry into the Porton experiments carried out in public areas during the 1960s and 1970s. It can be read here:

www.mod.uk...


And here is a link to a series of aerial shots of Porton Down and it's experimental trials range.

www.eyeball-series.org...

Once again...nice one Hunter


zero lift

I've been in Boscombe Down before when I was going for a job there. Sadly I turned the job down because I liked my current one at the time too much and mainly because I was a young fool - which I then promptly lost through redundancy about a month later

It's quite near Porton Down I believe.

[edit on 23-8-2004 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by The Hunter

Originally posted by bzap
I have never heard of this place. I am assuming it is some kind of military research base, but could you give a little more of an overview?

I am back from my weekend adventure!

Porton Down is a highly secretive bio-chemical loboratory located in Porton, Wiltshire. It has been all over the BBC recently becasue of illegal experiments that they did on servicemen. Just go to the BBC website and type in Porton Down.

Anyway, I am back. I have a few photos and 4 video clips but I am working out how to put the clips on the net. The pictures of the main entrances are on video but I iwll work out how to freese frame and post them. There were sights saying "BEWARE Guard Gods", "phototography is prohibited" etc.

Porton is protected with a fence all the way arount it and past the fence all around is a bank you cannot see over. For miles around Porton Down their is not one spot where you can see over the top (this is stated on an entrance sign also.) The arial photo I got above is the best you'll get but Porton Down is a huge underground facility.

Anyway, for those that are interested, as we sped past in a case, this is the roading leading past Porton Down:

We went all around then came back again. On our way back a screaming police car pulled us over. After the original reaction of of having to change ones trousers all he wanted oti know was whether we had seen a car smash on the other side.

As well as what I told you, Dr. David Kelly ( www.propagandamatrix.com... ) worked their. He was the chap I believe looking into the validity of Saddam having weapons of Mass Destruction, but said "Nope, he doesn't have any" to the New World Orders plans.




[edit on 23-8-2004 by The Hunter]

[edit on 23-8-2004 by The Hunter]

I worked at Porton Down for two weeks back in 1991 just after the Gulf War. I was cleaning up an old mortar test range, along with members of my troop. I'm still bound by the Official Secrets Act so I'm not sure how much I can get away with...However, I can tell you of mutated sheep
and rabbits that were inhabitating that area. It was guarded by the MOD Plod and the misfired munitions we were cleaning up were paticularly nasty.
Members of the Armed Forces were still volunteering for tests at Porton Down in 1991 ( for extra pay of course ) but the only one bloke I knew of who did go, had to play Chess in full Chemical suit after running on a treadmill or digging bloody big holes in the ground in said suit.
The whole place is steeped in myth within the Army. I think they tested '___'
on troops at Porton Down ( in the 60's)but I have no proof of that. Avoid this place and surrounding countryside for your own health or drive past with lead lined underpants, holding your breath.

System_47 wrote

The whole place is steeped in myth within the Army. I think they tested '___' on troops at Porton Down ( in the 60's)but I have no proof of that. Avoid this place and surrounding countryside for your own health or drive past with lead lined underpants, holding your breath.

Oh they definitely tested '___' on UK troops at Porton Down. Have no doubt about that. The Imperial War Museum has, available for public viewing or purchase, the following formerly secret Porton Down films which recorded the various '___' experiments.

MGH 4464
a TRIAL OF AN INCAPACITATING DRUG [Main] GB
12/1964

Film Number:
MGH 4464 Film Title: a TRIAL OF AN INCAPACITATING DRUG [Main]

Production Date: 12/1964
Production Country:
GB
Production Sponsor: Ministry of Defence
Production Company:
Chemical Defence Experimental Establishment, Porton

Record of the Moneybags Trial (abbreviated version of Small Change) when volunteer subjects from 41 Royal Marine Commando engaged in a field exercise after imbibing the hallucinogen '___' (lysergic acid diethylamide) at Porton, 27 November - 4 December 1964.
Introductory title places trial in context of recent research to discover chemical agents able to incapacitate enemy forces but with negligible risk of fatal casualties. Aim of trial is to test effect of drug '___' 25 on behaviour of troops in field conditions. Detailed coverage of the trial follows: Marines bring in prisoners on Day 1 (Control day), then attempt same exercise on Day 2 (Drugged). One Marine in state of distress is comforted by nurse, while others smile and laugh hysterically, one attempting to cut down a tree with his spade, and another climbing the tree. CDEE umpires in white coats observe. After exercise Marines rest in bed in Porton ward, with nurses visible in background and a scientist with a reel to reel audio tape recorder capturing wildtrack sound of patients. One very distressed Marine is held by duffel coated doctor and scientist, muttering "I am not going to die." Cut back to end of the exercise, with Marines departing by truck, before concluding title states that despite promising results of experiment, further research is needed into methods of disseminating drug, the effects of larger doses and establishing economical production techniques. "Despite these and other problems, '___' is regarded in the light of present knowledge as one of the drugs which merits more detailed examination and testing."

Notes:
Acquisition: one of thirteen assorted reels on '___' trials (Operation Moneybags, Operation Recount); other trials held as MGH 4465, 4466 and 4467.
Remarks: the film was originally designated "Confidential".
References: Reports for Porton Down '___' field trials held at PRO under following references: Moneybags (Dec 1964) - Porton Technical Paper No. 936 dated 1965 (WO 195/16137); Recount (Sept 1966) - preliminary report dated 1966 (WO 195/16312, Porton Technical Paper No. 979 dated 1968 (WO 195/16660); Small Change (10 January 1968) - brief preliminary report dated Feb 1968 (WO 189/122), report dated 1968 (WO 195/16694); Short Change, no documentation, but involves 1st Staffords and is probably abbreviated version of Small Change.

Other Porton '___' films held at the IWM:

126

DED 82-3
[MONEYBAGS (MINI)] [Allocated title][PORTON DOWN TRIALS NON-NITRATE COLLECTION] [Allocated series title] GB
12/1964

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



127

DED 77-1
[PART OF HOSPITAL WARD SCENE FROM OPERATION MONEYBAGS] [Allocated title][PORTON DOWN TRIALS NON-NITRATE COLLECTION] [Allocated series title] GB
12/1964

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
128

DED 77-2
[PART OF HOSPITAL WARD SCENE FROM OPERATION MONEYBAGS] [Allocated title][PORTON DOWN TRIALS NON-NITRATE COLLECTION] [Allocated series title] GB
12/1964

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
129

DED 82
[(MINI) MONEYBAGS. HUMAN VOLUNTEERS (TROOPS) AFTER SUBJECTION TO '___' 25] [Allocated title][PORTON DOWN TRIALS NON-NITRATE COLLECTION] [Allocated series title] GB
12/1964

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
135

MGH 4465
[HOSPITAL INTERVIEWS WITH PORTON VOLUNTEERS AFTER OPERATION RECOUNT, '___' FIELD TRIAL TO TEST INCAPACITATING AGENT] [Allocated] GB
9/1966

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
138

MGH 4467
A FIELD TRIAL WITH A PHYSICAL INCAPACITANT [Main] GB
1968
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

141

MGH 4466
THE EFFECTS OF DOSING HALF AN INFANTRY PLATOON WITH AN INCAPACITANT [Main] GB
1/1968

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The full list of titles and details of other Porton Down Films held at the IWM can be seen by going here-

www.iwmcollections.org.uk...

Enter Porton into the Subject box and press search.....As if by magic, 159 Porton film titles appear, many of which contain details of various experiments.


zero lift

Man I haven't been past Porton Down in a while. The funny thing is once you drive past the facility and fully grasp the geology of the area, you see similar looking "places" all over Wiltshire.

Man I haven't been past Porton Down in a while. The funny thing is once you drive past the facility and fully grasp the geology of the area, you see similar looking "places" all over Wiltshire.

I agree...Salisbury Plain positively 'hums' with Defence related sites.

Throughout the Cold War, both the Chemical and the Microbiological Establishments, normally based at Porton Down, used MOD sites across the Plain and further afield in order to experiment with the long distance travel of CW and BW simulants.

Since the September 11 2001, CW and BW detection research has increased almost to the level of the Cold War.

Porton Down BW detection research since 1995 has included development work on the Prototype Biological Detection System (PBDS), the Integrated Biological Detection System (IBDS, entered service with the UK NBC Regiment over the past two years), the Interim Naval Biological Detection System (INBDS) and under development at the moment, the Maritime Biological Detection System (MBDS).

These devices have to be challenged with large aerosols of BW simulants during their development/evaluation. These simulants are normally live bacteria such as Bacillus subtilis (aka. BG or Bacillus globigii). The work is often undertaken on the Porton Range, a 7,000 acre military site attached to Dstl Porton Down.

Obviously, these live bacterial aerosols do not stop at the perimeter wire (I have many declassified Porton documents from the Cold War era which prove that bacterial releases on the Porton Range travel many tens of miles off range, thus exposing the public to inhalation/digestion of said material).

Lovely Place


zero lift

[edit on 18-5-2005 by zero lift]

Is Porton Down a military or government facility?

Also, there are more warning signs in Area 51 then here:


(Area 51)

Did they have any motion detectors behind the fences like at Fort Halstead? I think they looked like short sticks sticking out of the ground. Also did they have any trip wire between the road and the fence?
[edit on 28/5/05 by GodAtum]

[edit on 28/5/05 by GodAtum]

GodAtum wrote

Is Porton Down a military or government facility?

Both since 1979.

The military chemical warfare site history at Porton Down is:

From 1916 it was known as the Royal Engineers Experimental Station

From 1929-1930 the Chemical Warfare Experimental Station

From 1930-1948 the Chemical Defence Experimental Station

From 1948-1970 the Chemical Defence Experimental Establishment

From 1970-1991 the Chemical Defence Establishment

From 1991-1995 the Chemical and Biological Defence Establishment

From 1995-2001 the Chemical and Biological Defence Sector of the Defence Evaluationand Research Agency

From 2001-now Defence Science and Technology Laboratory Porton Down

The military biological warfare site history at Porton Down is:

1940-1946 Biology Department Porton

1946-1957 Microbiological Research Establishment

1957-1979 Microbiological Research Establishment

After the MRE closed in 1979, the MRE laboratories were given over to civilian biological research.(many biological warfare scientists from the MRE moved in 1979 to a new BW department set up in the nearby CDEE)

As I said earlier, Porton Down at present contains both military (Dstl Porton Down) and civilan (Health Protection Agency) laboratories.

Dstl has more wire around it.

and MP5s...lots and lots of MP5s


zero lift

Just south of the 'Down' is the MoD's Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Warfare research establishment called 'Porton Down' and this is extremely security conscious as you would expect. They develop various toxins, chemicals and biohazards here as well as test them. Most of the British Chemical and Biological weapons programs have been developed here. The best thing to do is to just not go near this establishment and leave it alone. Since September 11th you can guess why I said that.

Getting closer the base makes it more difficult for you, depending on the generosity of the MoD Police. There are several viewing locations around the perimeter however if you are spotted with any sort of Camera equipment or for that matter, any kind of optics whether it be Binoculars or Cameras then you will be intercepted within minutes by the MoD Police. Some people have got away with this (me included) and have never been approached, however many people have been approached by the guards within just a few minutes of getting their camera and binoculars out. My last visit to Boscombe was when i was enroute to RAF Fairford to watch the B-52s take off to Iraq. I was able to snap various photographs of aircraft landing at the base with no opposition from the MoD police, they just sat there like the cammo-dudes do and watched me throughout, some driving by and asking if i was okay. If you don't do anything silly, like go right up to the fence and touch it etc then you should be okay.

www.dreamlandresort.com...

How did you manage to get photos? Where you lucky?

[edit on 16/7/05 by GodAtum]

Here are some aerial views of the Government/Military Porton Down facility from Google Maps. I have some questions though that I hope you can help me with...

HERE is a link to the map on Google Maps where you can zoom right in.

Below are some aerial stills of Porton Down.

View 1: i10.tinypic.com...

Closer view 2: i5.tinypic.com...

Even closer view 3: i13.tinypic.com...

Porton down is the middle bottom cluster of urbanisation (see image view 2)

My question is, their seems to be a small air field/strip at the top right of Porton Down (see image view 2). Where is this? Who owns it? What is it for?

What is the bigger cluster of urbanisation above Porton Down in image view 2?

Who owns the fields etc surrounding Porton Down, specifially the who green mass to the right of Porton Down.

Can anyone else tell me more about the area. How close can you get etc. Any pictures of signs their?

The below is apparently a ground level release (Porton Down, UK, 1995): www.shef.ac.uk...

Sign at Porton Down: www.ufon.org...

[edit on 5-4-2007 by UKExposer]

[edit on 5-4-2007 by UKExposer]

My question is, their seems to be a small air field/strip at the top right of Porton Down (see image view 2). Where is this? Who owns it? What is it for?

Try as I might I can't see a small airfield on this pic. Do you mean the 5 sided enclosure to the east of the buildings?

By the way Porton Down has become generic term for a rather large area - most of which forms the 7,000 acre Porton Range where the majority of Porton's CRBN field trials are conducted.

Please take note of previous warnings about this very active facility and stay well away from its perimeter.

Military scientists still disseminate various types of chemical and bacterial aerosols on the Porton Range, some of which may be hazardous to your health.


zero lift

Originally posted by zero lift

My question is, their seems to be a small air field/strip at the top right of Porton Down (see image view 2). Where is this? Who owns it? What is it for?

Try as I might I can't see a small airfield on this pic. Do you mean the 5 sided enclosure to the east of the buildings?

By the way Porton Down has become generic term for a rather large area - most of which forms the 7,000 acre Porton Range where the majority of Porton's CRBN field trials are conducted.

Please take note of previous warnings about this very active facility and stay well away from its perimeter.

Military scientists still disseminate various types of chemical and bacterial aerosols on the Porton Range, some of which may be hazardous to your health.


zero lift

Please see the below picture. I have circled what I am talking about.

i12.tinypic.com...

The yellow circle is the air strip. The red circle is "Porton Down" and what is the blue circle?

Ah...I thought that you meant a small airfield...the yellow circle if MOD Boscombe Down, past home of many a prototype secret aircraft under development.

MoD Boscombe Down (IATA: N/A, ICAO: EGDM) is an aircraft testing site located south of Amesbury, Wiltshire, England. It is run and managed by QinetiQ, the Public-private partnership company created as part of the break up of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency in 2001 by the UK Ministry of Defence. It is the home of the Empire Test Pilots' School.

en.wikipedia.org...

The red circle is actually the former Top Secret home of the UK's Biological Warfare facility - the Microbiological Resaerch Establishment (MRE). The laboratories were handed over to the Department of Health in 1979 and became CAM(R) - a civilian medical research facility. It is now the Health Protection Agency's Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response.


The blue circle is actually the facility that most people refer to as Porton Down. Its real title is Defence Scientific and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) Porton Down. It's main research is focused on Chemical, Biological and Radiological Warfare. Contrary to public myth it does not produce large scale amounts of either Chemical or Biological warfare agents.

But as it is still one of the most securely guarded facilities in the UK you would be well advised to stay on the outside of its perimeter fence.

Especially as:

"The Defence CBRN Centre is based at Winterbourne Gunner, south of Porton Down. It is a tri-service location, with the RAF being the lead service. There is also a civil police training presence at the site. It is responsible for all matters relating to CBRN (chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear weapons) warfare for the UK armed forces."




zero lift

Originally posted by zero lift
The red circle is actually the former Top Secret home of the UK's Biological Warfare facility - the Microbiological Resaerch Establishment (MRE). The laboratories were handed over to the Department of Health in 1979 and became CAM(R) - a civilian medical research facility. It is now the Health Protection Agency's Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response.

The blue circle is actually the facility that most people refer to as Porton Down. Its real title is Defence Scientific and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) Porton Down. It's main research is focused on Chemical, Biological and Radiological Warfare. Contrary to public myth it does not produce large scale amounts of either Chemical or Biological warfare agents.

zero lift

Thanks Zero Lift, you have been of imense help.

However, according to 'Google Maps' 'Hybrid option for this area, this doesn't appear to the case.

'Getamap OrdnanceSurvey' for this area (type in 'Porton' in the 'View Maps Online' area (left hand side under picture of a man walking)), this doesn't appear to the the case. According to these two maps, my original circled area in red for Porton Down is correct and the bigger area above it doesn't have a name and is out of the "Danger Area" (see the ordnance survey link I give you which shows the 'Danger Area' the red circle is in it and Googple Maps calls this Porton Down). The blue circle isn't named on either google maps or the ordnacen survey map, but on the ordnance survey map the blue circle is not only not named but is also outside of the danger area.

Please can you help?

Thanks,

UKExposer

[edit on 8-4-2007 by UKExposer]

[edit on 8-4-2007 by UKExposer]

[edit on 8-4-2007 by UKExposer]

According to these two maps, my original circled area in red for Porton Down is correct and the bigger area above it doesn't have a name and is out of the "Danger Area" (see the ordnance survey link I give you which shows the 'Danger Area' the red circle is in it and Googple Maps calls this Porton Down). The blue circle isn't named on either google maps or the ordnacen survey map, but on the ordnance survey map the blue circle is not only not named but is also outside of the danger area.

You're confusing the village of Porton, which is what the Ordnance Survey map is showing (the small red circle is to the immediate right of the village), and the CBRN facilities (which are the other side of the railway line to the village).

You'v also vastly underestimated the size of the Porton Range - go back to the Ordnance Survey map, but this time once the Porton map appears click to see the map which is immediately to the east - you'll then discover that the Danger Area is enormous. As I mentioned before Porton Range is 7,000 acres!

The following are declassified maps of: the old MRE (which is now the Health Protection Agency's Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response) - your red circle; and the old CDEE (which is now the military research CBRN research facility - Dstl Porton Down) - which you indicated with a blue circle.








And finally, at the risk of overly repeating myself, do not try and gain access to any Porton Down facility or associated test range (marked as Danger Areas).

If you wish to discover more about Porton and it's history, a good start would be to go to your local library and order Chemical and Biological Defence Porton Down 1916-2000 by G.B. Carter.





zero lift

Originally posted by zero lift

According to these two maps, my original circled area in red for Porton Down is correct and the bigger area above it doesn't have a name and is out of the "Danger Area" (see the ordnance survey link I give you which shows the 'Danger Area' the red circle is in it and Googple Maps calls this Porton Down). The blue circle isn't named on either google maps or the ordnacen survey map, but on the ordnance survey map the blue circle is not only not named but is also outside of the danger area.

You're confusing the village of Porton, which is what the Ordnance Survey map is showing (the small red circle is to the immediate right of the village), and the CBRN facilities (which are the other side of the railway line to the village).

You'v also vastly underestimated the size of the Porton Range - go back to the Ordnance Survey map, but this time once the Porton map appears click to see the map which is immediately to the east - you'll then discover that the Danger Area is enormous. As I mentioned before Porton Range is 7,000 acres!

The following are declassified maps of: the old MRE (which is now the Health Protection Agency's Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response) - your red circle; and the old CDEE (which is now the military research CBRN research facility - Dstl Porton Down) - which you indicated with a blue circle.

And finally, at the risk of overly repeating myself, do not try and gain access to any Porton Down facility or associated test range (marked as Danger Areas).

If you wish to discover more about Porton and it's history, a good start would be to go to your local library and order Chemical and Biological Defence Porton Down 1916-2000 by G.B. Carter.

zero lift

Zero Lift, friend,

I wasn't getting at you, honestly, I really apprecaite what you have given me and believe me it has clarified everyting.

I was confused by the map from Google Maps as according to THEIR 'Hybrid' image MY red circle is Porton Down and Google maps do not title my blue circle, which made me think it was something different.

According to your information and maps it makes far more sense.

Thanks.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by UKExposer]