A question for Technical savvy ATS'ers

Can this be done with off the shelf technology?
If I can make one of these I could be a thousandnaire!!!

D

I don't know what you are trying to make but I do know that anything using sonar or sonic sensing technology is quite expensive.

Plus you just showed your diagram to the world so I can assume that anyone more tech savvy than you can build it before you can.

reply to post by Thunderheart


Are you trying to make auto routing units that look for each other?

As previously posted, sonar is an expensive solution.

Also, sonar uses quite large wavelengths and is easily attenuated and so it doesn't produce very accurate results.

Pretty much point A needs to have a pathway to point B. has to be sonar since these points are underwater and visibility is nil.
The important information needed is the angles.

dadgum double posts!

It would help to know what exactly the purpose of this device would be used for.

Well first off: sound is"onmidirectional" ( doesn't travel in straight lines...)(lasers do.)
perhap sound(sonar) is not the best choice for what you are trying to accomplish...

Robot navigation can use a pulse input from a drive wheel,other than accounting for slippage or wheel spin it might get you close enough.as afar as picking up a signal ( any kind); running it through a delay of some kind or other signal processing and re "broadcasting it from a remote position ofcourse its possible.

If you are trying to spoof a sonar or radar signal: I think it is possible to use a,microphone( hydrophone) at the target ; pickup the in coming sonar ping; analyze the frequency and strength, and regenerate that signal at some other fixed station apart from the target, and send back a loud clean return.Of course it doesn't eliminate your original signal "return" from the target (which returns to the receiver first because its closer), radar counter measures (electronic countermeasures "ecm" ) does this kind of stuff all the time..(I've repaired and calibrated the flight line test gear.)and that was the "analog" days..

Originally posted by mileysubet
It would help to know what exactly the purpose of this device would be used for.

Ok, you are correct but chances are now I will only be a hundrednaire... :/

So let's say you have two pipelines laying in the mud on the bottom of the ocean and they need to be mated together, water is murky and muddy so visibility is very limited to almost non existent so lasers are out of the question.

The two pipelines will NEVER be over 40ft apart (usually)...
Right now the method we use is still the same way it was done since men began to blow bubbles under water. We use a taut cable and a protractor on each pipeline.
Usually pretty accurate but time consuming and human error is ALWAYS an issue...did I mention visibility is usually zero??

So what is needed is a modern way to accomplish figuring out the angle for the spool piece that will go in between the two pipelines.
The length is easy to figure out using the taut cable so the, yet non existent, invention will not need to figure out the distances.
thoughts?

It sounds like you are wanting to send a sonar pulse from one end of these pipes and receive it at another end, calculating the offset angle?

If I'm interpreting this correctly, your first issue is going to be the angle resolution of your receiver, and a few other factors related to the water (sound will diffuse just like light will, and a single point of sound will appear to be a mass of fuzz). You can improve your resolution without retardedly expensive gear by simply using a synthetic aperture. Synthetic aperture simulates a much larger antenna/lens by taking readings from multiple points along a linear path. Using some rigid extension, perpendicular to the pipe, you can offset your receiver by several meters... or, with more involved means, several kilometers (I'm really not sure what kind of distances you are dealing with, here). Resolve a bearing from each side of your pipe, and someone with some trig can plot, within some margin of error, the location of your other pipe's end, and derive your angles from that.

However, sonar and 'ocean floor' are two words that don't go together without a grimace. Sound will 'channel' based on ocean currents, water temperature, and a range of other things. Something else you will get is sound rebounding along the ocean floor and the thermocline (cold water below the thermocline, warm water above - acts like a mirror for sound, and even a physical barrier when hit at velocity). If you are looking for more than a few hundred feet - things will likely get tricky.

Really, you'd be best off to find yourself some drinking buddies in the Navy and find some sub-surface Sonar Technicians to help you out. They will be able to give you a much better "this is the way it is." I read books about it and bump into sonar guys every now and then - I'm more of a radar and laser kind of guy.

reply to post by Thunderheart


So you are looking for an easy way to work out the angle of intersection of the two pipelines so you can cut and weld a mitre joint in the pipe (spool), correct ? Laser targets would be the above water way to go.

Not sure how accurate GPS could be but if you could plot out the longest straight run along the centerline before hitting the flanged ends on both pipelines you could be really close on the angle.

I am not sure how you would change the angle or direction if you will of a sonar(sound) wave in mid air,water,ground what have you. You would have to have some sort of way to repeat the signal in the direction you want to change it.

Interesting theory you have going though. Kind of reminds me of what HARPP might be doing at times. Bouncing their signal off of the ionosphere. That requires massive amounts of electrical power though