Help Me With This Basic Question Regarding Reality, Please.

reply to post by Axial Leader

Is there any part of reality that cannot be described in words?

Yes, Depending on the language and not all languages have there mediums in sound-waves If you know what I mean.

I don't mean "described efficiently", because it is obvious that some types of reality will require a lot of explanation (after all, one picture is worth a thousand words, so they say.)

That's the thing nothing is really described efficiently or totally accurately, we just get approximations and we just fill in the gaps based on our perspectives and knowledge, so basically its a mix and match type of thing sometimes like a jig saw puzzle. We just put on pieces to the whole till we can come up with a more complete picture that we can understand or fathom.

Hence the whole act of communicating is forming a more whole picture of what were expressing, in relation to others or the thing were trying to grasp or put in our picture of what we consider our world.

Though the picture is not always in form of sight or word its a mixture off both and more, its all concepts that we express and understand as having a pretty similar grasp of it. Hence we communicate to others which just means we are close to the same vibrational frequency, ie in sync.

But is there some part of reality that cannot be labeled, or somehow described with arbitrary precision by spoken and written word?

Yes and no, all of reality is labeling that reality as being real, so hence by definition it must all be labeled. However nothing is as it actually is only as you see it, or if you like as you label it.

If it is true that all of reality can be described by language, is it possible that reality and language are the same thing?

Depends on the forms of your mediums of propagating your reality, and in this realty words are a great part of that, and like I said it also depends on what you call language. I would say that in this reality language and reality are the object and the shadow of the object in question, one always follows the other, and one is defined by the other.

And so they are part of the same picture. And you change one or the other you change the picture.

Originally posted by GEORGETHEGREEK
can you describe music to a deaf man?
can you describe vision to a blind?

are each amd everyones reality one and the same?

reality is definite to it self albeit not necessarily to the above

edit on 30/7/2011 by GEORGETHEGREEK because: (no reason given)

[/quote [remember helen keller? she was deaf, blind and couldnt smell ! but her teacher got her to learn a lot about the world].....you can describe anything to someone if you speak the same language,but getting them to understand what you mean is another thing altogether...

Everything can be described. If not, we invent a new word.

However, words just describe subjective reality.

On the other hand, words can create realities.

So the answer to your question is 42

en.wikipedia.org...< she was taught about the world...so anyone can

reply to post by blocula


en.wikipedia.org...

as usual ! the first link i posted didnt work ,but this one did ^^^ helen keller was taught about the world so anyone can

reply to post by Axial Leader

"the smartest man in America"

not world, but thats not saying much.

en.wikipedia.org...< 50 yrs earlier than helen keller

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I cannot possibly hope to shed any light on this. I am more of a "jack of all trades" with religion/spirituality. I like to sample a bit of everything, searching for the commonality that underlies it. I could discuss that subject for hours.

Regarding yoru response, it would seem that you cannot classify the nagual based on our human perception and syntax. It is a part of us that exists, it would seem, more as a basic awareness or perceptive capability.

Animals have a basic awareness and perceptive capacity. They don't have the capacity to plan or to ruminate, but their brains certainly do perceive and they are certainly aware. Their brains are governed by the dictates of their DNA-provided natural instinct. Your description dovetails very closely with what we know about the way that animal brains function.

But one thing that seems very certain is that it is not related to DNA in any way. Consciousness and genes are not really related. Consciousness exists before us and after us. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed.

Human consciousness is the product of the human brain. The work of Chun Siong Soon, Marcel Brass, Hans-Jochen Heinze, & John-Dylan Haynes (see www.nature.com... for details) has proven the fact that the brain generates a person's conscious response, and does so up to 7 seconds before the person even experiences having initiated that conscious response. This means that the human consciousness is directly associated with the brain, and the brain is directly affected by the DNA directives that exist in literally every cell of the body and brain. The generated human consciousness does challenge those directives, and this is what defines the difference between humans and other corporeal animals that have brains. But, the carnal aspects of the human brain do have a profound impact on the intellectual development of the resulting human mind.

Oh, and that "Energy can be neither created nor destroyed", you might want to Google that statement. You're not applying that thermodynamic tenet properly in this situation. It's not a "get out of reality free" card. Most people have no idea what the statement refers to, and yet they toss it around as if it's all-access security badge. It refers to the impossibility of a perpetual motion machine (basically), and doesn't suggest that energy is God-like.

animals cant project themselves into the future...everyday i open the front door and our dog is laying there on the otherside and gets bumped by it and then the next day and the next day hes back there again and again getting hit by it,the dog cant think to himself, 'if i lay over there instead of in front of the door i wont get hit by it', animals live in the now,thats it...humans can project themselves into the past present and future...

Originally posted by NorEaster
This means that the human consciousness is directly associated with the brain, and the brain is directly affected by the DNA directives that exist in literally every cell of the body and brain. The generated human consciousness does challenge those directives, and this is what defines the difference between humans and other corporeal animals that have brains.

I'm actually working on quite the kooky thread which relates to this. Hint: when 'challenging' those directives, some strange phenomena seems to occur!

ghosts,aliens,demons and poltergeists ect ect usually enter our reality from the left,which is the dead end of the electromagnetic spectrum

www.stgeorgesmalvern.org... take a few minutes and read this, it will blow you away

Hi Everyone,

I am new here. I love this site! So much interesting stuff here to read, and really Good folks!

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but this fits this thread perfectly--- I read this book many years ago, and the guy who wrote it, William Samuel, was a wonderful, unpretentious, brilliant, gentle man from Alabama. He was my teacher, he was always a kind and good friend with everyone who came to learn from him. One of his books is titled "A Guide To Awareness and Tranquillity" which is all about Awareness and Oneness and Consciousness, a beautiful masterpiece, I say.

He also wrote a very prophetic book in 1986 titled "The Child Within Us Lives! A Synthesis of Science, Religion and Metaphysics." That book, I think, is an honest, remarkable gift to all of us, a spiritual guide for getting through these days we are now in; really important to read this one, filled with essential wisdom, I know you guys will like this guy.

There is a lot of free reading on his website www.williamsamuel.com... (he passed on about 16 years ago, but his work is even more relevant today.)

And here is one of his little booklets called "2+2=Reality"

There is free gift pdf here:

www.williamsamuel.com...

Ok, I am not sure I did all this right, but if the website does not click to go---you can enter his name William Samuel and his website pops right up at the top listings. and you can find his little free booklet there.

Enjoy, I hope this works!

Thanks, Sweetmystery
( an old, old song I still remember; Oh Sweet Mystery of Life I'm glad I found You)

Originally posted by blocula
animals cant project themselves into the future...everyday i open the front door and our dog is laying there on the otherside and gets bumped by it and then the next day and the next day hes back there again and again getting hit by it,the dog cant think to himself, 'if i lay over there instead of in front of the door i wont get hit by it', animals live in the now,thats it...humans can project themselves into the past present and future...

Maybe your dog can't, but other dogs do not display such stupidity. For example, my wife informs my that my dog stops whatever he's doing about a quarter to five, and lays by the door to wait for me. He hears the garage door open, and he stands up and steps back, waiting for me to open the door.

Dogs know approximately what time of the day it is, can develop patterns, and will do things in the future differently depending on events that happened in the past. I do not know why your dog is so lazy and incompetent.

Originally posted by Akasirus

Originally posted by blocula
animals cant project themselves into the future...everyday i open the front door and our dog is laying there on the otherside and gets bumped by it and then the next day and the next day hes back there again and again getting hit by it,the dog cant think to himself, 'if i lay over there instead of in front of the door i wont get hit by it', animals live in the now,thats it...humans can project themselves into the past present and future...

Maybe your dog can't, but other dogs do not display such stupidity. For example, my wife informs my that my dog stops whatever he's doing about a quarter to five, and lays by the door to wait for me. He hears the garage door open, and he stands up and steps back, waiting for me to open the door.

Dogs know approximately what time of the day it is, can develop patterns, and will do things in the future differently depending on events that happened in the past. I do not know why your dog is so lazy and incompetent.

"all" animals are driven by instinct and nothing more...eat,mate and sleep this is all,no animal can think>>"next week i'm gonna go lay under that tree",they can only live "in the now" and as far as my dog being stupid hes a full blooded lab and is anything but stupid...you just want to see something in your dog that isnt there...

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by Akasirus

Originally posted by blocula
animals cant project themselves into the future...everyday i open the front door and our dog is laying there on the otherside and gets bumped by it and then the next day and the next day hes back there again and again getting hit by it,the dog cant think to himself, 'if i lay over there instead of in front of the door i wont get hit by it', animals live in the now,thats it...humans can project themselves into the past present and future...

Maybe your dog can't, but other dogs do not display such stupidity. For example, my wife informs my that my dog stops whatever he's doing about a quarter to five, and lays by the door to wait for me. He hears the garage door open, and he stands up and steps back, waiting for me to open the door.

Dogs know approximately what time of the day it is, can develop patterns, and will do things in the future differently depending on events that happened in the past. I do not know why your dog is so lazy and incompetent.

"all" animals are driven by instinct and nothing more...eat,mate and sleep this is all,no animal can think>>"next week i'm gonna go lay under that tree",they can only live "in the now" and as far as my dog being stupid hes a full blooded lab and is anything but stupid...you just want to see something in your dog that isnt there...

If you say your dog gets hit with the same door every day, I would argue he is stupid or lazy. I am not saying he is 'thinking' anything, but most dogs will change depending on past stimuli, and this is a fact. After getting hit with a door 5 or 6 times, most dogs (that I have encountered anyways) would not lay their anymore. If your dog is so smart, why does he continually do the same thing, knowing the outcome? How do you train your dog to do anything (stay off the couch, stop biting, piss outside) if he is only in the now and can't think "If I do this, 'm going to get smacked with the paper again"?

And honestly there is no way for either of us to know what a dog is experiencing. You say dogs only live in the 'now', well guess what? So do people. Humans are also ruled by our urges, our mind only tries to rationalize it. I'm not seeing things in my dog that aren't there, you are just not giving your enough credit. The example you gave to prove dogs live in the now was invalid, because most dogs would not behave like that, as further research supports.

For example, here is a dog with a vocabulary of 1022 words, which shows a capacity for learning similar to a 3 year old child: Dog breaks vocabulary record

Here's another one, that shows dogs can count, perform simple math, and even lie and decieve: Dogs as intelligent as children

If it makes it easier to believe your dog 'isn't really there' and he's just a walking chemical reaction, then go ahead. But there's no evidence to support that, behaviorally or biologically.

Originally posted by Akasirus

Originally posted by blocula
animals cant project themselves into the future...everyday i open the front door and our dog is laying there on the otherside and gets bumped by it and then the next day and the next day hes back there again and again getting hit by it,the dog cant think to himself, 'if i lay over there instead of in front of the door i wont get hit by it', animals live in the now,thats it...humans can project themselves into the past present and future...

Maybe your dog can't, but other dogs do not display such stupidity. For example, my wife informs my that my dog stops whatever he's doing about a quarter to five, and lays by the door to wait for me. He hears the garage door open, and he stands up and steps back, waiting for me to open the door.

Dogs know approximately what time of the day it is, can develop patterns, and will do things in the future differently depending on events that happened in the past. I do not know why your dog is so lazy and incompetent.

Nice.

When your dog starts examining the reasons why he does the same goddamn tiny thing every day at the same exact time, you can start crowing about how bright your dog is. Rumination is the line of demarcation, so don't be so smug. Maybe his dog can rip your dog's ass off and pass it around to the cats in the neighborhood.

For those who make it to Heaven, there will be things that we could never even imagine while we are here on Earth. That reality will be the ultimate reality, and I for one do not want to miss out on it.

1 Corinthians 2:9(KJV)
9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.