Anders Breivik and "hidden" Freemasons

A photo of the Norwegian shooting suspect wearing Masonic regalia has been making the rounds, and it's recently been confirmed that he was, in fact, a member of an Oslo lodge. This is the statement from the Grand Master of Norway concerning the incident:

- I am appalled by the horrible atrocity that was committed in the government district and at the Utøya island, says the Sovereign Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons, Ivar A. Skar.

We are filled with mourning and compassion for those who have been affected and their relatives.

It has appeared in the media that the accused has been a member of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons.

He has now been excluded - the exclusion immediately effective.

The exclusion reflects that the acts he is accused of having carried out, and the values that appear to have motivated them, are completely incompatible with what we stand for as an Order.

We build our activity on Christian and humanistic values and want our members to contribute to the promotion of charity, peace and goodness among all people.

The police will of course get all the help and information we can give to contribute to the investigation.

My prayers are with the victims and their families, and I hate to use this tragedy to make a point*. However, it may be only in this moment that a point that should be made, can be made:

It's often alleged that certain men (and occasionally women) are Freemasons, but that their membership is concealed from the outside world, the better to cloak their machinations on behalf of the Craft towards its unspeakably evil and perpetually ill-defined agenda. To those who hold this position I ask these questions: if Barack Obama, George W. Bush and several world leaders who are controversial but hold substantial fan bases maintain sub rosa membership, why not a crazed gunman certain to become a black mark on whatever affiliations he held? Why, if it's entirely plausible for Freemasonry to limit major players on the world stage to split-second photography and awkward turns of phrase as outing their Masonic status, would the Craft voluntarily come forward and ruin its own good name?

I'm not sure what response I expect, but I felt like it needed asking.

*Speaking of which: it's often alleged that the Masonic attitude toward the misdeeds of a Mason range anywhere from apathetic silence to collusion. I believe my own post and the response of the Grand Master prove otherwise.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
My prayers are with the victims and their families, and I hate to use this tragedy to make a point*. However, it may be only in this moment that a point that should be made, can be made:

It's often alleged that certain men (and occasionally women) are Freemasons, but that their membership is concealed from the outside world, the better to cloak their machinations on behalf of the Craft towards its unspeakably evil and perpetually ill-defined agenda. To those who hold this position I ask these questions: if Barack Obama, George W. Bush and several world leaders who are controversial but hold substantial fan bases maintain sub rosa membership, why not a crazed gunman certain to become a black mark on whatever affiliations he held? Why, if it's entirely plausible for Freemasonry to limit major players on the world stage to split-second photography and awkward turns of phrase as outing their Masonic status, would the Craft voluntarily come forward and ruin its own good name?

I'm not sure what response I expect, but I felt like it needed asking.

*Speaking of which: it's often alleged that the Masonic attitude toward the misdeeds of a Mason range anywhere from apathetic silence to collusion. I believe my own post and the response of the Grand Master prove otherwise.

I think facile detractors would suggest that it was oversight (or hubris) that (once again) permitted the Craft's unseemly 'hidden' reality to be exposed. It sort of falls into the same logical fallacies that yet drive 9/11 Trutherism near a decade after the fact.

It would seem that Masonry has to admit fallibility in not disabusing a man of a vile mindset that is totally at odds with what Masonry worldwide aspires to. It's a fallibility that we as a fraternity share with whatever religious group heretofore claimed him.

It's an unfortunate reality of life that groups whose focus is the betterment of all regardless of creed, race or nation can be infiltrated, leached upon and used as social camouflage by those whose personal mindsets are at total odds with the group. Groups such as Freemasonry, Knights of Columbus, etc., all aimed at the betterment of society at large must continue to take at face value the profession of good intentions by those seeking admission; the alternative of defacto universal suspicion in the long run impoverishes and stratifies society in ways that those who've escaped or endured authoritarian regimes are only too well aware.

Along with yours and those of millions of others around the world, my thoughts and prayers are with the survivors and their families as well as those families who've had loved ones ripped from them by the actions of a madman.

Fitz

It would appears that Freemasons are fueling 'Christian Fundamentalism' in their supporters.

reply to post by eyespying


Well, I have to admit that's at least one I didn't anticipate.

Still, though: anything other than this single incident on which you've based that?

Originally posted by eyespying
It would appears that Freemasons are fueling 'Christian Fundamentalism' in their supporters.

I'd love to hear your rationale for believing that. A fraternity that by definition accepts members of all races, creeds (religions) and nationalities would seem to me to be precisely aligned to combat the myopia of fundamentalism of whatever stripe not fuel it.

Just my two bits Canadian. YMMV
Fitz

reply to post by OnTheLevel213


What level is his "Masonic Regalia"?

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by eyespying

 

Well, I have to admit that's at least one I didn't anticipate.

Still, though: anything other than this single incident on which you've based that?

No, but perhaps this incident gives firm grounds for that authorities to investigate further.

Just as an addendum to my previous reply, the brethren in my Lodge are drawn from Protestant (of all stripes), Catholic, LDS (Mormon), Jewish and Muslim faiths and the sitting Master is Sikh. I'm kind of at a loss to understand where we might be fuelling Christian Fundamentalism within our Lodge.

Maybe we're odd ducks that way but I kind of doubt it

Fitz

Originally posted by eyespying

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by eyespying

 

Well, I have to admit that's at least one I didn't anticipate.

Still, though: anything other than this single incident on which you've based that?

No, but perhaps this incident gives firm grounds for that authorities to investigate further.

One swallow does not a Spring make.

As OTL asked, what other incidents are you drawing from?

Fitz

Anders Manifesto:

markhumphrys.com...

Some quotes from this violent totalitarian document:

Forced deportations: "Deportation policies: All Muslims are to be immediately deported to their country of origin. Each family (family head) will receive 25,000 Euro providing they accept the deportation terms. Anyone who violently resists deportation will be executed."

Mass killings and deportations: "When we seize political and military power in the future; while tempting to unleash hell to avenge all our ravaged and dead brothers and sisters, ... we must think and act pragmatically with a long term objective. ... As such, we should limit the executions of category A and B traitors to 200,000 in Western Europe.

A better alternative than execution of the remaining, the category C traitors, would be to establish a large multiculturalist zone in southern/eastern Europe, perhaps Anatolia, or on other territories which has been invaded and occupied by Muslims. In these newly created zones; the cultural Marxists category C traitors and those of the non-Europeans considered as politically disloyal will be deported to and allowed to live and create their imaginary utopia."

Forced conversion to Christianity: "Assimilation policy/demands/offer for Muslim individuals living in Europe (this offer will expire on Jan 1st, 2020) ...

Convert to Christianity (Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant). Every individual is to accept baptism, the ritual act by which one is admitted to membership of the Christian Church ... Attempt of al-taqiyya (Islamic deceit) for shorter or longer periods in order to try to wait for a regime change will not be tolerated. The convert will celebrate Christian holidays and adopt mainstream Christian customs and has to attend Church at least once a year ..."

Destruction of heritage: "All mosques and Islamic centers will be demolished or converted ... All Islamic and/or Arab-style or equivalent buildings/artwork will be demolished or modified All traces of Islamic culture in Europe will be eradicated, even locations considered historical."

Plans for terrorism: "I have been thinking about my post-operational situation, in case I survive a successful mission and live to stand a multiculturalist trial. When I wake up at the hospital, after surviving the gunshot wounds inflicted on me, ..."

Planned terrorism against the left: "A prioritised target is the annual party meeting of the socialist/social democrat party in your country. An entry strategy might be to use fireman‘s clothing when entering the building. This allows you to conceal your armour and weapons under the fireman‘s coat ... An alternative approach would be to deploy mobile bombs at strategic places outside the main entrance".

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by eyespying

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by eyespying

 

Well, I have to admit that's at least one I didn't anticipate.

Still, though: anything other than this single incident on which you've based that?

No, but perhaps this incident gives firm grounds for that authorities to investigate further.

One swallow does not a Spring make.

As OTL asked, what other incidents are you drawing from?

Fitz

It does with some nations.

reply to post by eyespying


Intriguing idea, but doesn't seem to jive with Freemasonry's history. For one, Freemasonry was all but founded as an opposing view to the intolerance of the out of control Church in Europe in the Middle ages. It was popular as a place where renaissance minds might talk openly about ideas and not be persecuted by the church. It has promoted diversity, and accepts members from many very different faiths. In recent years Freemasonry has become the number one target of rabid Fundamentalists.....to say masonry is at odds with religious Fundamentalism in any form, is an understatement.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


Does Anders know he wrote this manifesto?

.

Originally posted by eyespying

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

One swallow does not a Spring make.

As OTL asked, what other incidents are you drawing from?

Fitz

It does with some nations.

For example?

Is Norway one? Are you suggesting that one incident is sufficient for there to be a conspiracy? And you've yet to answer whether you're drawing from any other similar incidents and if so, what, where and when?

I am fairly certain that to be a Mason in Finland you are required to be a Christian so it is not similar in ethos to the system we are accustomed to here in the United States. I for one would not be willing to be a member of a jurisdiction were this (Christian Faith only) was a prerequisite.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by eyespying

 

Well, I have to admit that's at least one I didn't anticipate.

Still, though: anything other than this single incident on which you've based that?

Freemasorny in Norway and in Sweden are exclusive to Christians only. Sort of like America's York Rite. You must profess yourself to believe in God and recognize Jesus as the savior in order to be a Freemason in Norway.

It should also be noted that Freemasonry in Norway is not like in many Western countries "Free and Accepted Masons" or "Ancient Free and Accepted Masons" but "Norweigan Order of Freemasons". It is a different organization, but as far as I can tell it is recognized by the UGLE as Norway's legitimate brand of Masonry. Most scandanavian lodges follow the Norweigan style. In fact the Norweigan style was a product of the union of Norway and Sweden, and the King was recognized as it's head.

Still I am appaled anyone branding themselves a Mason would do something like this.. the most disturbing picture of the guy I've seen was him wearing a US Marine uniform with Masonic regalia.. he was obviously distrubed.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Freemasons follow the same doctrine worldwide.

The Klan doesn't discriminate according to individual countries.

Stay off the grid

They are watching.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Cite your source

Don't just make an empty claim that you are an advanced mason.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by eyespying

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

One swallow does not a Spring make.

As OTL asked, what other incidents are you drawing from?

Fitz

It does with some nations.

For example?

Is Norway one? Are you suggesting that one incident is sufficient for there to be a conspiracy? And you've yet to answer whether you're drawing from any other similar incidents and if so, what, where and when?

Yes it is a good question you ask "Does one in Norway?"

Just this incident. I haven't researched nor am I inclined to do so whether this is a solo incident. I guess there could be others like you say.

reply to post by klhix


Freemasonry has no "Doctrine" and thus is different everywhere you go .. the chief tennents of Masonry are supposed to be in line with what is excepted by the UGLE which is then considered the International Standard. However like countries have like crafts.. the US, Canada, Britain and Australia for instance is almost identical .. there are ritualistic differences and minor language changes but each craft is very identical. If you go into other countries, like Norway, you find it has more than subtle differences. Still all Masons are Masons as long as they are recognized by one another's grand lodge..

en.wikipedia.org...
www.frimurer.no...