Survey time on ATS, what is more imporant to you? Tax Breaks for the rich or Social Service Programs

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
Time to decide what is more imporant for everyone right here right now.

This is a continuation on the debt ceeling talks currently being conducted stateside whereas the GOP wants to keep tax breaks, cuts and corporate welfare for the rich going while the Dems want to keep Social Service programs going like Social Secuirty, Medicaid/Medicare, keeping civil service workers employed.

What is more imporant to everyone here, tax breaks for the rich or maintaining social services which has served as our nation's backbone for nearly 80 years now?

A - Continued tax breaks, cuts and corporate welfare for the rich?
B- Financing social service programs by eliminating tax breaks and corporate welfare?

Stay on topic please and any post that tries to continue the "Left-v-Right" paradigm going will be ignored.

edit on 15-7-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Please explain how only having a choice between A and B is not pushing the Left vs Right paradigm?

Choose A - You're a republican
Choose B - You're a democrat

The real answer is neither, as neither will solve the problem. How about spending less on non essential programs? How about holding politicans to the same standards as the rest of us? How about providing less foriegn aid to contries that hate us? How about our leader start proposing some real solutions to the problems they created?

Left is right and right is left and we are screwed.

Typical Secular Socialist approach to address an issue. Just like when a government expenditure is questioned it is always responded with the strawmen that that means you are against "children or soldiers". The two issues you want to ask to vote on have nothing in common. They are not equivalent since taxing the rich will not cover the vast cost of entitlements, so the poll is set up that if one votes for no taxes you are automatically trying to kill old people. Love the part that will ignore any discussion, again another Secular Socialist mainstay as if they are some how morally superior. I just hope I'm around when the "useful idiots" like the op are marched away to their utopia.

"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys"
P J O'Rourke

Black/White options presented as options.

A.) What do you define as rich? I think everyone should pay the same % of their income in taxes. Mega corporations paying $0 in taxes is wrong

b.) Social Services Programs - the Government is doing a great job (sarcasm), a lot of them need to be cut

Based on how you worded your two options, I choose neither.

reply to post by Finalized


Social Service Programs are the tangible proof of the overtaxation of the citizens. They should be eliminated. They are un-American.

Rich people don't pay taxes.

You really are not giving us any real choices, are you?

Could poll topic op I pick.

B- Financing social service programs by eliminating tax breaks and corporate welfare.

Loga,
Yes the worker is the backbone of our economy as you and everyone who works is the backbone as you provide for us all/

WeRepeons,
The choices you listed could be it a future survey, thanks for the idea.

Amast,
The choices gave are is what is currently on the table and by choosing one or the other with no third option is ideal as it gives a sense of where this nation is going. Less aide to foreign nations could be added to a survey as stated by WeRepoens.

Billy,
No need for name calling as there is clearly no need for it. They've got everything in common as both are forms of income streams which helps keep our fortress financed.

Final,
What 2 options would've you put if this was yours?

Mike,
Social service programs finance things like police departments, firefighters, civil service workers and keeps one aspect of the economy in full Governmental control so that the sector in q cannot be privatized and be made to be "For profit" only and actually be exclusively and only accountable to the people that they serve.

You are falling for a Divide & Conquer tactic.

Wake up !

In economic since both of these issues are just BS. Don’t fall for the diversion, you are much more intelligent that that.

The United States Government just create dollars out of thin air, so you do not have to cut spending on social programs and Taxation just removes these phony dollars from circulation.

The Government’s budget does not work the way your personal budget works.

You have only a limited amount of dollars and must make choices how to allocate your resources so they have the greatest effect.

Not so when you look at the budget of the United States. They can create the dollars as needed.

Taxation only removes dollars from circulation, so the ponzie scheme last longer.

When any Nation does not back their currency with something of real value, i.e. gold (or any other commodity) that Government can just create currency at will. The only issue now is inflation, and de-valuation , so you use methods to remove currency from circulation to help offset this effect, i.e. Taxation.

reply to post by daddyroo45


Yes Im talking about your tax dollars the same tax dollars that have been used to bail out those private institutions deemed to big to fail. Privatising the profit and make the tax payer pay for the losses.

Eliminating and cutting social programs right now will put this country deeper into a recession and will also increase unemployment.

The Bush tax cuts have proven that cutting taxes now is doing nothing to help this country's finances....or it's unemployment problems.

IMO....free trade is what we really should be focusing on as that is where much of this problem is stemming from. Yes, we need to do something about war spending...but neither side is willing to do that right now....that is why it's not an option (although I wish it was).

Originally posted by brokedown
You are falling for a Divide & Conquer tactic.

Wake up !

In economic since both of these issues are just BS. Don’t fall for the diversion, you are much more intelligent that that.

The United States Government just create dollars out of thin air, so you do not have to cut spending on social programs and Taxation just removes these phony dollars from circulation.

The Government’s budget does not work the way your personal budget works.

You have only a limited amount of dollars and must make choices how to allocate your resources so they have the greatest effect.

Not so when you look at the budget of the United States. They can create the dollars as needed.

Taxation only removes dollars from circulation, so the ponzie scheme last longer.

When any Nation does not back their currency with something of real value, i.e. gold (or any other commodity) that Government can just create currency at will. The only issue now is inflation, and de-valuation , so you use methods to remove currency from circulation to help offset this effect, i.e. Taxation.

The ponzi scheme is collapsing and will be over and done with soon enough.

Originally posted by bekod
tax the rich, they have to much money and for what to make more money? enough is enough, pay your part.

I agree. And this "trickle down" rubbish about giving the tax breaks to the wealthy and the companies will pass this savings on to their employees is bull too. Most never use money to give employees a raise, it's usually kept for themselves.

Originally posted by David9176
Eliminating and cutting social programs right now will put this country deeper into a recession and will also increase unemployment.

The Bush tax cuts have proven that cutting taxes now is doing nothing to help this country's finances....or it's unemployment problems.

IMO....free trade is what we really should be focusing on as that is where much of this problem is stemming from. Yes, we need to do something about war spending...but neither side is willing to do that right now....that is why it's not an option (although I wish it was).

Cut The NSA's budget by 10% and trim like 10 - 12% off the Pentagon and Defense we ain't gotta raise nothing and can sustain the nation long term based on that alone. I happen to know the true number but it will never be revealed on this site so don't ask for it.

That alone can finance the high speed rail line.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Fair enough....but to answer your original post:

B...of course...B!

I agree the question is framed in the same simplistic way that it is in the mass media. It allows no room for common sense or compromise. I starred St. Udio's post above because I mostly agree.

A) Tax policy: a simplified tax code with most loopholes removed would be better than the thousands of pages of rules and deductions we have now. Conservatives (who I tend to agree with more than Liberals) are going to hate this thought, but I have no problems with a massively punitive inheritance tax. I have no problems with someone who either through hard work, creative genius, or other legal means becomes wealthy and wishes to enjoy the fruits of their labors. I have huge problems with those in the lucky sperm club. A punitive inheritance tax prevents the formation of dynastic wealth, gives incentive to spend instead of horde wealth to pass on, and forces those who benefit from the system we have repay the system that allowed them to prosper ( by enforcing contracts, patents, and trademarks). Such an inheritance tax should have some pretty large deductions for capital producing property like farms, milling machines and other capital equipment so that farmers and small business owners may pass on the ability to produce wealth to their heirs, but not a stack that allow such heirs to simply live off of dividends and interest.

B)Social Service Programs: Social Security (SSI not SSDI) is a program that can probably be fixed with minor tweeks like increasing the age to draw (people do live longer), taxing all wages not the current limit of around $107,000, and putting a cap on benefits. Welfare and SSDI in my experience with people on them are rife with fraud and an entitlement mentality amongst people who could work at something but choose not to. If those programs are to continue, the sanctions for fraud (mainly in SSDI) should be increased and those receiving benefits should be audited regularly. A lifetime limit to amounts received from welfare would be a good start and tying receipt of welfare to job training, education or hell menial work for some number of hours every week would be a good start. Food stamps should be limited to fresh fruits, veggies, meats, and the lowest cost items in the grocery store for everything else. Medicare and medicaid are not fixable or sustainable without complete overhaul of the health care system in the US and without that anything done to attempt fix them are pissing into the wind.

Sorry I couldn't give a simple answer OP, but such choices as you presented are part of the problems we face in this country. Such choices do little at solving the complex problems we face and work only to divide the populace into two camps which is exactly what the demagogues on either side desire.Government cannot and does not generate prosperity it may only take from one and give to another. Government does have an impact on the conditions necessary for prosperity. One can desire both some form of social safety net and and a tax environment that is not burdensome on those that risk their capital to produce and generate wealth. A compromise that helps those unable (not unwilling) to help themselves but does not destroy the desire to prosper from those that are able to generate wealth is what we need. Rigid ideology on both sides of the argument does nothing but gridlock the system into where we are now, and that I think we both agree is not sustainable.

reply to post by David9176


I agree with the free trade argument see my post here.

Tax the rich and assist the poor, not rocket science.

Now that we're gettin somewhere, you know we got to give back
For the youth is the future no doubt that's right and exact
Squeeze the juice out, of all the suckers power
And pour some back out, so as to water the flowers
This world is ours, that's why the demons are leary
It's our inheritance; this is my robbin hood theory... robbin hood theory

I seek sun, deceive none, for each one must teach one
At least one must flow and show the structure, of freedom
It's me dunn, cause petty things we don't need 'em
Let's focus to create somethin great, for all that sees them
They innocent, they know not what they face
While politicians save face genius minds lay to waste
If I wasn't kickin rhymes I'd be kickin down doors
Creatin social change and defendin the poor
The god's always been militant, and ready for war
We're gonna snatch up the ringleaders send em home in they drawers
But first where's the safe at? let's make em show us
And tell em hurry up, give up the loot that they owe us
We bringin it back, around the way to our peeps

Robin Hood Theory


RIP GURU

B, of course!

The amount of shills throwing tantrums is truly disheartening. How can anyone defend the billionaires and side against the elderly and downtrodden is beyond inhuman. The only thought that keeps me from being sickened is that these posters might be simple paid HB Gary "personas". If that isn't the case and this ratio of sane vs insane matches the real world then the US is simply beyond hope.

reply to post by jefwane


Sir, your thoughts are balanced sensible and free from dogma. You are not welcome in politics

Begone heretic !


Joking aside,,, agree completely

I think a lot of ppl don't understand the OP. He isn't saying that those are the only choices he would choose, Those are the only choices that our lame Gov is letting us have. Obama and congress are saying: "tax rich or cut off the old/poor?" Of course there are a million ways this economy and country can be fixed to be more equal...

Of course since these are the only choices we have I say ...I say cut SS/welfare. That way people will wake up and demand the Government changes. Taxing the rich will only prolong this misery and the same questions will be asked in another 4 years.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I was never given employment from a poor person.

Sooo...howzabout tax breaks get tied to performance?

Instead of this looney expectation that massive tax breaks will be applied to job creation (ahem...on this continent, please), concessions be awarded to those who do actually create jobs?

A bold suggestion, I know.