All you Californian public employees please justify your pay & benifits.

The state is dying under the weight of supporting 106,000./yr lifeguards, 160,000./yr firemen etc etc

Why should you be paid a penny more than the equivalent position in the armed forces? I would love to let the taxpayers vote on that one. It would pass in a landslide.

Why should a LEO be paid more than an MP?
Why should a teacher make more than a drill Sargent?
Why should a a state firefighter make more than an military firefighter.
etc etc.

And if you claim that there aren't the same positions in the military you are not looking very hard.

reply to post by ..5..


Sorry, im abit baffled as to why you are comparing public positions such as teaching to military positions SPECIFICLY. Please enlighten me

reply to post by ..5..


You had me until you mentioned teachers. You're not going to get any support for an idea that claims teachers, the backbone of our society, should be paid a dime less than they already do. And no, I'm not a teacher or live in CA.

I completely agree. Our state has been paying through the nose for "public representatives" who do noting but abuse the system. Bell, CA. is a perfect example. If that is not enough, look at all the corruption charges against the Fresno county police chief Jerry Dyer. It is a disgusting mess that our "representatives" have created for us, and I, like you , would like anyone to come and justify any reason for the disparity in wages. Thanks op.

*I was a lifeguard for almost a decade and no, they do not make that much. From the Central Valley to San Fransisco at least no one comes close to that in salary or compensation. The initial wages you claim the counterpart makes are not accurate of the Central Valley.

I would move away from attacking real public servants(lifeguards, firefighters, teachers) and move to the public representatives(politicians,city workers) and always make sure your policing is honest.

First off, why don't you explain to us where you're getting your $106K a year figures from? Does this INCLUDE benefits and retirement compensation? Or is this supposed to be take home pay?

edit to add: People like you have chosen to blame public employees for all economic woes in your state, but have completely failed to hold your elected representatives accountable for their failure to maintain a budget. You have also disregarded the fact that these same representatives are in the pockets of big corporations and everything they do is despite the middle-class working man and woman who work their butts off every day for the betterment of society.

Blame the real culprits. Not the ones THEY want you to blame. Not the ones who actually contribute to society instead those are attempting to destroy it.

I work for the State.

I make considerably less than the numbers that you quoted. When I started working for the state, I was making about 20% less than people that do my job in the private sector. I choose to work for the state because of my location. It was relatively close to my home so I had a short commute I commute by bike mostly) and I would be able to help out with my kids.

As part of my pay, also , was a good health insurance package. I had kids so this was a good thing. The cost of health insurance 30 years ago was not as ridiculous as it is today so it wasn't that expensive a benefit. Also as part of the pay and compensation package was retirement. If I worked for 25-30 years, I would get about 60% of my ending salary.

Initially I thought that I would go back to the private sector when my kids got older. Several times I've been approached for higher paying jobs buy they didn't include any retirement other than social security. In the end, I've continued working for the state and now I'm approaching retirement. I'll get about $3000 per month.

I also get upset when I hear about outrageous salaries of state employees. But from my experience, most of the people that I know are making a little less than if they did the same thing in the private sector.

Don't use blanket condemnation of all people in a group (state employees) based on the extreme examples that you've read about in the media. Instead contact you local representatives and get those things fixed.

Best wishes.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I work for the State.



I also get upset when I hear about outrageous salaries of state employees. But from my experience, most of the people that I know are making a little less than if they did the same thing in the private sector.

edit on 5-7-2011 by Wildbob77 because: (no reason given)

That is because most of the figures people such as the OP are quoting include benefits and retirement compensation. Most of that is deferred compensation which can't be touched until retirement. It is a reward for dedicating your life to being a public servant. The vast majority of these people who are being attacked for what they work hard for do not bring home anywhere close to the figures that the media and the OP keep espousing.

nunya13 , Wildbob77
You didn’t answer, you are like a child with his hand in a cookie jar.
Here are some numbers for you. Justify them. What makes you so much more deserving than the private sector who actually make.
Unlike a company we have to purchase your substandard overpriced product. It’s not like we can boycott taxes.



economix.blogs.nytimes.com...
www.cato.org...
www.telegraph.co.uk...
humancapitaladviser.com...
www.denverpost.com...
jobs.aol.com...
www.usatoday.com...
www.freshbusinessthinking.com...
cliftonchadwick.wordpress.com...
www.jeffjacoby.com...
seekingalpha.com...
www.jeffjacoby.com...

Still blaming the crappy economy on wages paid to workers?
Is this rhetoric not old yet?

Do these workers fly in private jets to exotic destinations to spend their winters?
Do these workers contribute to their local economies and communities?

Is this thread in the Rant Section?

reply to post by ..5..


Your simplistic view of state employees astounds me.

Quite simply, If I didn't get my wage and benefit package that I receive, then I would have worked somewhere else. I worked as a consultant for 10 year and made lots of money. It was hard work, but I was well compensated.

I've worked for the state for about 25 years. The pay was far less than I received in the private sector. I didn't set out to have this as a career. The career aspect cropped up once I had about 15 years into the system. The concept of retirement started creeping into my vision of life. The retirement system is a benefit. If it wasn't available, I would have left the state for the private sector about 15 years ago. I would have gone back to the private sector once my kids entered college.

I don't have to justify this. It was offered as part of a wage and benefits package.

BTW, the wage part of the package just wasn't that great. I've also had to work second jobs outside of my state job to make ends meet.

reply to post by eazyriderl_l


You didn't work in Newport beach

www.businessinsider.com...
whostolemycareer.com...

reply to post by eazyriderl_l


i just wanted to edit my prior post to note that i mean nothing negative about police or the profession, just keep them honest. But this stupid thing said i have exceeded the four hours for editing post. Clearly by the time stamp i wasn't.
And now im sure that ats is cia

reply to post by ..5..


I am not a california state employee. However, I am a well paid union member. I am appalled that you would ask anyone to justify their pay. Justify your own pay! If you only make ten bucks an hour because that is the job market you were seeking employment in, then don't blame someone else as if they did something wrong for seeking employment of a better paygrade. You have no right. You reap what you sow, and if you are making low pay, then that is what you applied for.

I however am highly skilled, and have knowlege useful to my employers, and that justifies my pay. I earned this job by being good enough at what I do to win it in a fair and open competition in which I applied with many other people and was selected for it for my skills and qualifications. The way the media is portraying these union workers in a poor light is as shocking to me as your question. I suppose we should all make ten bucks an hour, but then where would we all live?

Wouldn't it be better if we all made union wages? It is not the employees salaries that is eating up the public coffers in california, but the huge weight of the illegal immigrant population that is weighing the system down and sucking it dry. Place the blame where it should be, and not on the backs of hard working folks just trying to make a living...just like you.

Justify your Original Post. Where do you get off?

reply to post by ..5..


No... No i didnt. At least there everything is in that same realm of over-inflation. California also has 6 of the top most expensive cost-of-living communities in the nation. If by the numbers you can justify a 200 percent wage disparity or a 200 percent cost-of-living difference under one leader, then so be it.

However; if in one geographical land mass, under one leader, anyone can justify sometimes more than a 200 percent of disparity of any kind between two or more equally productive people, I will have to agree to disagree for i believe that to be a problem.

Originally posted by Coopdog
I am appalled that you would ask anyone to justify their pay. Justify your own pay! If you only make ten bucks an hour because that is the job market you were seeking employment in, then don't blame someone else as if they did something wrong for seeking employment of a better paygrade. You have no right.

Yes I do.
Since I am forced at gunpoint to pay for them through the ever increasing taxes and fees of this state.
I have EVERY right to know why the public employees feel that they deserve so much.

The average total compensation for an employee of the state of California is $106,000 a year. And the state retirement system (CalPERS) shows that the average defined benefit pension is $67,000 a year for a 30-year employee.

Fraud and abuse of the taxpayer is rife throughout state government. The Los Angeles Times recently reported that "[n]early three-quarters of Los Angeles County firefighters and lifeguards who retired in the last three years successfully claimed they were disabled on the job and won enhanced pension benefits."

The very same week the San Francisco Chronicle noted that , "In the game of megabuck public paychecks, outgoing San Francisco police brass are hauling away the gold... former Police Chief Heather Fong – who retired in 2009 – received a grand total of $528,595 in her final year. ... Now that she's gone, she's pulling down an annual pension of $229,500 for life."


The collapse of California's finances will come quickly and by surprise. But it will come, probably far sooner than anyone thinks.

How can anyone justify pointing the finger at the bottom of the pile? Public servants, State aid recipients, the poor in general. Hell I will lump my self in because after 40yrs of employment and a solid 30 of PAYING income tax not just filing I am now on SSD and poor as a pauper and getting medical aid right now.Add every freaking dollar all us leaches are supposed to have cost you poor hard working sods and send the bill to Wall st,, the Pentagon and the Oil industry. They can pay it out of spare change.I guess a TRILLION dollars is just too big a number for some folks to count on all six fingers.Way easier to suck at the propaganda teat for that sweet milk of justification for the outright attack on the poor, elderly and our public servants.
It says "Deny Ignorance" around here a lot but I ain't seeing it when people post the truly anti-American things I have read lately. I suppose since I don't watch any MSM but for the sound bites that creep in at times and as posts on various sites that is why I am stunned when I hear the stuff going down the black pipes get regurgitated on places where folks supposedly question such pap. The OP want working people to "justify' their pay but I guarantee he does not give two sharts where the REAL money is going
cryptogon.com... Is just one example of real waste. 20 billion to air condition tents!
until this crap stops STFU about the one who teach your kids ,keep you safe, fight your fires as well as the poor and less fortunate as the very ones I bring up are creating more every day.
We got veterans coming home to no jobs and welfare and this is how some folks act about things. Pathetic
seed

reply to post by ..5..


Many of the things that you've referred to are local governments (Cities and Counties) yet you condemn all State employees.

The short and sweet answer to your question is that I don't have to justify my pay and benefits package to you or anyone else . The reality of the situation is that I worked in private industry and if the state couldn't offer me a pay and benefits package that I found acceptable, I'd still be in private industry.

Just to upset you further, I might retire from the state and then go back to work in private industry so I'd be getting my retirement plus a full wage.

If you've got skills, then you can market yourself. If you don't have skills that are in demand, then you can practice saying "Would you like fries with that?"

Teachrs shpould have there pay cut in alf and start over

reply to post by badgerman24


You're silly. The good teachers would all be able to find work in the private sector. Then you'd have a situation where the ones that couldn't find work outside, stayed in the school system and you'd get a further decline in education.

You'd also have the more affluent parents pushing their kids into private schools leaving the poor to be educated by the stupid.

It's easy to complain about public employees but the reality is that there are many good qualified people working for governments and if you don't pay them a reasonable wage, they will work in the private sector leaving the ones that aren't so good behind.