What Happens if I Don't Want to go to Heaven or Hell, is there a choice?

I want to ask a question that I am quite puzzled about, concerning heaven and eternal life with God. Over many years I have listened to and heard many people who have a christian faith, talking about going to heaven.

So my main question is this:- Why do you want to go to heaven?

Like a lot of children growing up, we all came face to face with people who told us stories of the bible, God and Jesus etc. But to be perfectly honest I have never really seen what all the urgency is about securing an everlasting life in heaven.

I remember during my youth at Sunday school, one of the teachers telling us what heaven would be like. He said that if I gave my heart to Jesus, then all the other people I know that had also given their hearts to Jesus would be in heaven too. Such people as Moms Dads, Grans, Gran-dads, brothers, sisters, friends and other people from church. He also went on to say that I would be able to do such wonderful things as being able to swim underwater without having to come to the surface to take in more air into my lungs. He also said that I would be able to run and run and run, without ever getting tired legs or running out of breath.

Is this really what people are expecting heaven to be like? To be truthful and without sounding as though I am being facetious, I have never really enjoyed swimming and never been much of a runner either. My Mom and Dad when growing up I never really saw eye to eye with and many of the church congregation and elders at the church I found to be no more different or indeed any better or nicer mannered than the people who didn't go to church. To be truthful, the people within the church I probably disliked more than the people outside of the church, so the thought of having to spend an eternity in heaven with them doesn't really fill me with great enthusiasm to go there.

To be honest and as I get closer to fifty, I am quite tired now, so even if I did manage to live for another thirty or so years, the thought of actually going on and on forever doesn't really fill me with any delight, and especially with people I don't don't really want to spend that long with. So what happens if I don't want to go to heaven? I certainly don't think that I want to go to hell either, going by all the horrible stories I have heard about that place.

So am I allowed to just die and be thankful for the time I had here on earth? I would like to do that............

Originally posted by davethebearSo am I allowed to just die and be thankful for the time I had here on earth? I would like to do that............

I don't believe in hell. It's part of the reason Christianity turned me off. How can you believe in an all-loving creator God who would condemn MOST of his creation to eternal suffering?

I don't buy it. And there's no evidence of it that I can find before Paulist theology crops up.

Honestly I think we are no more once we die. Perhaps some of us are taken to heaven, but I don't know. Our focus IS supposed to be on the here & now, how we live, how we treat others.

Those descriptions of heaven you were given are pretty darn funny. I was told once that we would spend eternity singing praises to God, and I thought, "isn't that going to get old after a while?"

Maybe, if it is there, it is something far better than all these stupid postulations.

bible.cc...


how about that an atheist answers your question for you

Originally posted by Schkeptick

Originally posted by davethebearSo am I allowed to just die and be thankful for the time I had here on earth? I would like to do that............

I don't believe in hell. It's part of the reason Christianity turned me off. How can you believe in an all-loving creator God who would condemn MOST of his creation to eternal suffering?

I don't buy it. And there's no evidence of it that I can find before Paulist theology crops up.

Honestly I think we are no more once we die. Perhaps some of us are taken to heaven, but I don't know. Our focus IS supposed to be on the here & now, how we live, how we treat others.

Those descriptions of heaven you were given are pretty darn funny. I was told once that we would spend eternity singing praises to God, and I thought, "isn't that going to get old after a while?"

Maybe, if it is there, it is something far better than all these stupid postulations.

Thank you for what you wrote Schkeptick ......Just what you wrote within your first paragraph doesn't seem to make sense.........How can you believe in an all-loving creator God who would condemn MOST of his creation to eternal suffering?.........that just doesn't make sense at all does it really?

But I am truly wanting to know what people expect to be doing with their time when they get to heaven......this has always intrigued me...what do you fill your time doing forever and a day...................and yeah, singing gods praises day in and day out, that's a bit mundane and repetitive to say the least............so basically you believe in him, he saves you, you go to heaven, and then you spend eternity praising and thanking him forever for saving you, is that it?...........now I am baffled.........

cheers

Originally posted by davethebear
I want to ask a question that I am quite puzzled about, concerning heaven and eternal life with God. Over many years I have listened to and heard many people who have a christian faith, talking about going to heaven.

So my main question is this:- Why do you want to go to heaven?

Like a lot of children growing up, we all came face to face with people who told us stories of the bible, God and Jesus etc. But to be perfectly honest I have never really seen what all the urgency is about securing an everlasting life in heaven.

I remember during my youth at Sunday school, one of the teachers telling us what heaven would be like. He said that if I gave my heart to Jesus, then all the other people I know that had also given their hearts to Jesus would be in heaven too. Such people as Moms Dads, Grans, Gran-dads, brothers, sisters, friends and other people from church. He also went on to say that I would be able to do such wonderful things as being able to swim underwater without having to come to the surface to take in more air into my lungs. He also said that I would be able to run and run and run, without ever getting tired legs or running out of breath.

Is this really what people are expecting heaven to be like? To be truthful and without sounding as though I am being facetious, I have never really enjoyed swimming and never been much of a runner either. My Mom and Dad when growing up I never really saw eye to eye with and many of the church congregation and elders at the church I found to be no more different or indeed any better or nicer mannered than the people who didn't go to church. To be truthful, the people within the church I probably disliked more than the people outside of the church, so the thought of having to spend an eternity in heaven with them doesn't really fill me with great enthusiasm to go there.

To be honest and as I get closer to fifty, I am quite tired now, so even if I did manage to live for another thirty or so years, the thought of actually going on and on forever doesn't really fill me with any delight, and especially with people I don't don't really want to spend that long with. So what happens if I don't want to go to heaven? I certainly don't think that I want to go to hell either, going by all the horrible stories I have heard about that place.

So am I allowed to just die and be thankful for the time I had here on earth? I would like to do that............

edit on 3-7-2011 by davethebear because: (no reason given)

Dear davethebear,

I will attempt to answer you as you wrote your question. Firstly, I am a Christian. Why do I want to go to heaven? Because I have already been to hell and didn't like it. I guess we have to define heaven and hell. Hell is referred to as the abyss. I believe that to be solitary confinement for eternity. I think that is a good description of how I view hell. The problem seems to be that most people define it as pleasure or pain, I don't. I define it as sharing or being alone.

You mention people you knew who belonged to some church and claimed to be Christians and said how you didn't want to go through eternity with them. What made them Christians if they didn't live it? Calling yourself a chair doesn't make you one. No doubt they told you that you have to know the name of Jesus to be saved, I don't believe that. It says that you must have the heart of Jesus, not know his name, it said every knee would one day bow to him that refers to something in the future not present.

As for your wish to be able to cease having existed, energy can neither be created nor destroyed only incorporated, reused if you will. For me that is an issue of free will and you can abdicate that and cease to be a decision maker regarding your eternal existence. In other words, you can live with it and put the choice in someone else's hands for which place you go to.

I often ask people what they would want God to be like or what they would want hell to be like. I like the idea of a God that would let me choose to be who I wish to be and allow me to pay the consequences of my decisions, I like free will, self definition. What if heaven was a place where everyone who wanted to share in a good way was able to share with others as felt best to them and all had informed consent because they had learned their lesson on earth? I guess I am saying you need to figure out the best solution to eternal life that would work for you and then you can choose what heaven is for you and I am good with you having it. Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion

Hell is referred to as the abyss.

Where did you get your degree in Christianity?
You need to do a refresher course. The abyss in the New Testament is the place for locking up the devil and demons, not where people go when they die. There is such a belief that people go to a place by that name but it is the Greek religion, not the Christian religion.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Hell is referred to as the abyss.

Where did you get your degree in Christianity?
You need to do a refresher course. The abyss in the New Testament is the place for locking up the devil and demons, not where people go when they die. There is such a belief that people go to a place by that name but it is the Greek religion, not the Christian religion.

Dear jmdewwy60,

Your fascination with degrees I don't understand, do you wish to focus on degrees or my comments? I never said anyone went to hell, I described it as the abyss. Please define an abyss for me.

reply to post by AQuestion


You have it all in your post.
There is a movie called the Abyss, ever seen it?
It is a place where to go would cause you to die, so no one goes to the abyss and comes back to describe it. So it is a place, people know it is there. People don't expect anyone to ever come back from it.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AQuestion

 

You have it all in your post.
There is a movie called the Abyss, ever seen it?
It is a place where to go would cause you to die, so no one goes to the abyss and comes back to describe it. So it is a place, people know it is there. People don't expect anyone to ever come back from it.

Dear jmdewey60,

Actually, I don't think any human goes to hell for eternity and I don't have it in my post. I asked some questions, I do that on occasion. As for your explanation of the abyss, you contradict yourself. If you assume (as you stated you did) that the abyss was for demons and you know your bible then you know that after Jesus's thousand year reign on earth that they are let loose again, that means they didn't die. As for nobody ever going into the abyss, I think it said Jesus did and came back. Please reference me where in the bible it says that nobody ever goes there and comes back, don't waste my time by telling me that some go there for eternity, show me where it says nobody ever goes there and comes back.

reply to post by AQuestion

Did you drink some coffee yet today?
You said on you post you were going to answer the question.
Now you are saying you were asking a question.
Demons don't die from the abyss.
People die from it.
People . . demons
there is a difference.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Did you drink some coffee yet today?
You said on you post you were going to answer the question.
Now you are saying you were asking a question.
Demons don't die from the abyss.
People die from it.
People . . demons
there is a difference.

Dear jmdewey60,

Go back to my original post, I did answer his question, he asked why we wanted to go to heaven. I said other things in my response were questions, it is simple to understand. You say people die from the abyss and completely avoid answering what I asked you. I asked if people could go to the abyss and come back. That is what I asked you and you did not answer it, try checking out the Near Death Experience and see if some did not say they went there and came back. Being responsive would be different.

reply to post by davethebear

Hi Dave,

At least if Hell existed I might get to meet some old friends again So, that's a No from me on your question.

Old man waffles on a bit.....

If we think of the Christian religion as a Belief-System that's been teaching Doctrine (Indoctrination) for a couple thousand years so that it's the basis for most Western Cultures, we can understand how Heaven and Hell as Concepts are so ingrained into the culture we live in.

Without the indocrination we have no Need to Believe in the Concepts. Which is a place some people reach after many years of Following the Beliefs.

Heaven and Hell exist inside the Concept, so maybe they don't exist outside of that at all?

Crazy sounding stuff......

As a teenager I found a heaven-like place ... but it's not the Biblical Heaven Concept. It is a real place.. not physically real but very real nonetheless. It is where the dead arrive to wake-up from their Dream of Life in the World, and where we Souls record and create our Life in the World experiences from.

Anyone can go there with a little practice.

The dead also create their own realities in the astral-realms so that in a sense it is Hell-like, until they start to wake-up and Remember.



/silly old man rambling on

reply to post by AQuestion


I am not avoiding anything.
I don't do avoiding.
Sometimes I don't see a question when the poster thinks they are asking.
There may be a language barrier.
I don't know what country you live in but I have to assume it is not an English speaking country so what you say is not coming across well.
I am not trying to be rude or unresponsive.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I am not avoiding anything.
I don't do avoiding.
Sometimes I don't see a question when the poster thinks they are asking.
There may be a language barrier.
I don't know what country you live in but I have to assume it is not an English speaking country so what you say is not coming across well.
I am not trying to be rude or unresponsive.

edit on 4-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Dear jmdewey60,

I have made it very simple, go back to my original post, respond to what I have asked you, no need to be defensive, be responsive. You attacked me, I only responded to the OP. I did not, in my first post, respond to you because you had not posted anything, if you wish to challenge me then respond to what I ask you as I have responded to what you have asked me. How bout you tell us if you are even a believer, tell us about yourself be open and truthful, I said I was a Christian are you?

reply to post by jmdewey60


Dear jmdewey60,

You question my ability to speak English, do you think others cannot understand what I asked you or my responses? I feel comfortable believing that they can, that would then mean that the only person that didn't understand was you. I am assuming you feel comfortable using English. If you do not, then let me know.

reply to post by AQuestion
I was giving you a general description of what an abyss is.
That is a real thing. Abyss is a name for such a place.
Now there is another use of the word, abyss.
It is sometimes used in a religious sense.
The Greek religion has it as a place where you go when you die.
The Christian religion uses the word to describe a place for demons and devils and Satan to be held.
Only in the Greek religion do people go there.
The Bible quote about Christ was a rhetorical question and not a description of an actual event.

reply to post by AQuestion
Others can, maybe.
What other people can or can not do has no bearing on what I may or may not be able to.
That is not the problem, it is the way I write which is short and to the point. You have to catch the shorthand to understand what I am saying.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by AQuestion

 

I was giving you a general description of what an abyss is.
That is a real thing. Abyss is a name for such a place.
Now there is another use of the word, abyss.
It is sometimes used in a religious sense.
The Greek religion has it as a place where you go when you die.
The Christian religion uses the word to describe a place for demons and devils and Satan to be held.
Only in the Greek religion do people go there.
The Bible quote about Christ was a rhetorical question and not a description of an actual event.

Dear jmdewy60,

Again, will you make any attempt to answer what I asked you? Some people will read the thread and see how you avoided answering what I asked you even after I answered the OP and you. Instead you seek to tell me about your concept of "Christians" and ignore what you were asked. Are you capable of responding to me or is my english to hard on you, I can dumb it down.

reply to post by AQuestion


I told you I don't see the question.
You can ask the question again, so I know it is a question, if you actually want an answer.
Is it the thing about why I am concerned about degrees? That was a joke.
If you were American, you would get that.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Dear jmdewey60,

I will make my questions simple, here you go for all to see.

1. The OP's question was why we wanted to go to heaven, you accused me of not answering it. I did, I said I didn't want to be alone for ever, in the abyss. You attempted to deceive by saying I didn't answer it. You lied, I answered his question.
2. You asked where I got degree in Christianity, I asked you why you were so fascinated by degrees and asked you to respond to my question, you did not.
3. I asked you to define the abyss, you have not, do so now. My English is simple, define the abyss. You refuse to.
4. I asked you to tell me where it said that no human ever went to the abyss and returned, you failed to answer that. Do it now, I have numbered the questions, it should be easy.
5. You claim that I said any human stayed in the abyss, it is simple, cut and paste and show me where I said that, you cannot for I do not believe that and did not say that.
Do you understand my questions now? Others will and they can decide who can speak English and who is a liar. Take care.

As you have such a fine command of the English language, respond by number and show your greatness.