Israel cannot return to indefenseable lines: Netanyahu. and other thoughts.

What a rediculous statement and only proves Netanyahus' abhorrance of a Palestinian state. Seems to me Israel did a good job defending those lines in 1967. The fifth most powerful army in the world would have trouble defending a border? What a joke! Well, if Israel believes the '67 lines would be impossible to defend perhaps an international border force situated on the Israeli side will get the job done.

A border on the '67 lines with land swaps to accomodate the large settlement blocks would alter the lines significantly. As long as equal territory is exchanged the Palestinians won't mind and in fact have so said in the past.

Oh, I know the problem is "Hamas" They want to drive Israel into the sea, right? Well looks to me like they want to do to Israel what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians all these years. But even THAT preverse ideolgy can change and likely will. Hamas is a political faction within the Palestinian government and like the far right in Israel will not have control over any newly elected government. Things ARE changing as Hamas is supporting a palestinian state on the 1967 lines. No, they do not think Israel has a legitimate right to any of the land of Palestine. So what! ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel believe the same thing.

The Palestinians refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Why should they? They HAVE recognized "Israel" as a state as defined under their name in the UN. Let israel CHANGE their name to "The Jewish State of Israel" I am sure there is a form at the UN for a name change. (Iran found it after deposing the Shaw)

There is nothing wrong with the idea of Israel being a homeland for people of the Jewish faith as long as it does not exclude those of other faiths and does not give preferencial treatment to Jews. Israeli nationality should be given to all citizens regardless of their choice of religion. Anything less is racist.

The settlers are a problem Israel created. Let Israel find a solution for this cancer. There are noe 500,000 settlers outside Israels legitimate borders ('67 lines). A great number of IDF soldiers come from settler ranks and MAY rebel when Israel is forced to evacuate the settlements to make way for the Palestinian state. There is a distinct possibility of civil war or a total massacure of the Palestinian people. Of course Israel maintains the demographics have changed and the borders must reflect the changes. Why? The land the settlements are on were ILLEGALLY settled contrary to international law. Under any law when you profit by breaking the law you lose the profit gained. The settlers could become citizens of the new Palestinian state. (Mr. Fayyad has so stated)
BUT, the bottom line is Israel will not of their own volition allow a Palestinian state (read Likuds charter). Therefore in September it will be forced upon them. UN The General Assembly has a lot of options to make it happen. (no veto in the UNGA) They could recind UN res 181 immediately rendering all of Israel a non state. Actually there is absolutely nothing the US or Israel can do IF the UNGA's resolve is strong. If it is not? well the PA will simply resign and Israel will have full responsibility for the Palestinians. Let Israel annex the West Bank making citizens of all the Palestinians with the right of all citizens to vote. Israel is a democracy, right?

Obamas' advisers have certainly informed him of all the possible senarios (none of them good) if Israel does not negotiate NOW. So, Israel has ONLY four months to act.

reply to post by gem_man


rolls my eyes....here we go again

Barak Obama says negotiate from 1967 borders, right?

You say Hamas agree....

wrong.

They want pre 1948 borders:

newsessentials.wordpress.com...

www.haaretz.com...


Oh, sorry, you were saying?

"The fifth most powerful army in the world would have trouble defending a border? What a joke!"-Quote from You.

- Hell, we have THE MOST POWERFUL ARMY IN THE WORLD, and we couldnt and still cant ,or wouldnt or wont stop millions of Mexican Citizens from entering illegally over our borders.

-just a point

- Little more ON TOPIC-

This war has been going on for so long, none of them even know why they are even in it anymore. Its just ingrained in their psyche that they must hate each other. Told to hate each other over breakfast and at school.
Guess what today is? Hate thy scummy neighbor day.

Why dont they just draw a line in the sand, and put tall trees and bushes along the line so they dont even have to look at each other?

Its just too bad the rest of the world is trying to get this game going as fast as they can.

Lets try to stop the wars, not make more.
-very simple concept

But government isnt ran on concept.
Its ran on power and greed.

They care not for you. Government isnt emotional, therefor it knows no comprimise, and could care less about your well being-especially if you aint worth anything.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by gem_man

 

rolls my eyes....here we go again

Barak Obama says negotiate from 1967 borders, right?

You say Hamas agree....

wrong.

They want pre 1948 borders:

newsessentials.wordpress.com...

www.haaretz.com...


Oh, sorry, you were saying?

I don't see anything of the sort in your first article, and the second one quotes a apokesman as saying "We might talk about the 1948 borders"

BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA!

Hamas is willing to talk. Israel is not. Who is the impediment to peace here?

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by gem_man

 

rolls my eyes....here we go again

Barak Obama says negotiate from 1967 borders, right?

You say Hamas agree....

wrong.

They want pre 1948 borders:

newsessentials.wordpress.com...

www.haaretz.com...


Oh, sorry, you were saying?

I guessed you missed what I said. Hamas is a POLITICAL faction that may not be part of any new government. The PA would handle all negotiations with Israel. I noticed you didn't post any links to likuds charter where they dis-avow any future Palestinian state. They too will change in time.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I can play the link game too..

Hamas accepts 1967 borders, but will never recognize Israel, top official says

Haniyeh: Hamas willing to accept Palestinian state with 1967 borders

(interesting how this second link appears to be from back in 2008!)

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I wish i could give you 10 stars for "BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA".... I am just getting over crying, from laughing so hard. BOO!

reply to post by rogerstigers


Well, it was only just yesterday Hamas decided they now want pre 1948 borders

HELLO!

Wish you guys would pay much closer attention!!!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Well, it was only just yesterday Hamas decided they now want pre 1948 borders
HELLO!
Wish you guys would pay much closer attention!!!

No, I wish YOU would pay attention..
Hamas will NOT be negotiating the peace deal..

Hamas is just Israel's excuse to stall so they can continue to steal land anyway..
Not even you can deny that...

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Well, it was only just yesterday Hamas decided they now want pre 1948 borders

HELLO!

Wish you guys would pay much closer attention!!!

“Clearly Obama’s plan is no different, aside from a few small details, from that of George Bush. Now he refers to the 1967 borders as sacred, but who says we accept them, and that we won’t speak of the 1948 lines?” Mahmoud al-Zahar was quoted as saying in an interview with Emirati news outlet al-Emarat al-Youm that was translated by the Israeli news site Ynet.

You mean this? This doesn't mean anything. This is diplomatic speak for "we plan on being difficult, but only to save face with our public". Just like when Hamas says they will accept 1967 borders but not recognize Israel.. it's a diplomatic move that allows for progress without losing face.

Ultimately, the others here are right, though. Hamas is fading, just as the PLO did. Eventually, the old guard will retire or die away and progress will continue.

reply to post by backinblack


Do you in all honesty think I did'nt know Hamas would not be part of negotiations for a peace deal with Israel?

It's NOT going to happen, not now, not ever.

There will be no Palestinian state in our life time or the next. The sooner people wake up to that and accept it, the better so they can move on to more important things in life.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by backinblack

 

Do you in all honesty think I did'nt know Hamas would not be part of negotiations for a peace deal with Israel?
It's NOT going to happen, not now, not ever.
There will be no Palestinian state in our life time or the next. The sooner people wake up to that and accept it, the better so they can move on to more important things in life.

So you admit Israel does NOT want peace?

That would put a stop to their land grab...

reply to post by backinblack


I'm saying Israel is going to do what Israel thinks is in her best interests for the Israeli people, not for the foreign masses; and there's nothing you can say or do to stop her.

If the Palestinians have a problem with that, Jordan's border is within eye vision!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by backinblack

 

I'm saying Israel is going to do what Israel thinks is in her best interests for the Israeli people, not for the foreign masses; and there's nothing you can say or do to stop her.
If the Palestinians have a problem with that, Jordan's border is within eye vision!

edit on 25-5-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

IMO the days of Israel ignoring world views and laws are numbered..
They have basically used every card they have and the world is waking up to them..

Interesting times ahead..

I seriously do not understand what is going on with Israel. I thought people from all walks in life can "all just get along". I guess I'm wrong considering the past/current atrocities done by both/all sides of the matter. All I have to add is that the "squatters", err, "settlers" are an embarrassment. While fighting for the lands may be in Israel's best interest, perhaps it's time to let go of the past and go forward elsewhere to find peace.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by backinblack

 

I'm saying Israel is going to do what Israel thinks is in her best interests for the Israeli people, not for the foreign masses; and there's nothing you can say or do to stop her.

If the Palestinians have a problem with that, Jordan's border is within eye vision!

edit on 25-5-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

Then Israel is going to have to live with the fact that a lot of Israelis are going to get killed now, and in the future. No crying; If Israel wants to keep up the land theft, then it's going to have to accept that the result of this is dead Israelis. There is no way to grab the land and NOT have Israelis killed. The world just does not work that way - when you aggressively invade someone else's territory in an attempt to steal from them and purge them from their homes, they are going to kill you.

What Israel - and what YOU - think is best for Israel, is actually what guarantees death and fear for Israelis.

What Israel really needs is to abandon the Zionist approach espoused by antisemitic half-wits whose political futures hinge on there being piles of dead Jews. That is, it needs to abandon the policies you support that are practiced by the people you support.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Alot of Israelis are going to get killed either way but let me tell you for every one Israeli Jew taken down by an Arab, the Israelis will take down 1000 Arabs. Thats a no brainer.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Alot of Israelis are going to get killed either way but let me tell you for every one Israeli Jew taken down by an Arab, the Israelis will take down 1000 Arabs. Thats a no brainer.

Wow, and you think that's a good thing??
Sad sad sad.......

reply to post by backinblack


It's not a matter of whether it's a good thing or not, thats just how it is. The Arab understands that.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by backinblack

 

It's not a matter of whether it's a good thing or not, thats just how it is. The Arab understands that.

edit on 25-5-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

Though I doubt the next war will be like that..
Israel will not get an easy run next time..

I'd rather see Israel come to the peace table and negotiate with honesty..