Should we colonize on Mars?

1. Earth and Mars
2. Why would we want to live on Mars?
3. The challenges of living on Mars
4. What will we need, and how can we get all these things?
5. Health & Fitness
6. Terraforming


Earth and Mars.




Earth:

Diameter - 7,926 miles
Gravity - 2.66 times that of Mars
Average Distance from Sun - 93 million miles
Average Speed in Orbiting Sun - 18.5 miles per second
Tilt of Axis - 23.5 degrees
Length of Year - 365.25 Days
Length of Day - 23 hours 56 minutes
Temperature - Average 57 degrees F
Atmosphere - nitrogen, oxygen, argon, others
# of Moons - 1


Mars:

Diameter - 4,220 miles
Gravity - .375 that of Earth
Average Distance from Sun - 142 million miles
Average Speed in Orbiting Sun - 14.5 miles per second
Tilt of Axis - 25 degrees
Length of Year - 687 Earth Days
Length of Day - 24 hours 37 minutes
Temperature - Average -81 degrees F
Atmosphere - mostly carbon dioxide some water vapour
# of Moons - 2

www.comparexy.com...

Mars receives only 43% of the sunshine that Earth does, but has no magnetosphere or ozone layer to block radiation.








Why would we want to live on Mars?

Population growth: As the population on earth increases we will eventually “run out of room”.

Growth Rate = (Population at end of period – Population at beginning of period) / Population at beginning of period.

1900 - 1.6 billion
1927 - 2 billion
1950 - 2.55 billion
1955 - 2.8 billion
1960 - 3 billion
1965 - 3.3 billion
1970 - 3.7 billion
1975 - 4 billion
1980 - 4.5 billion
1985 - 4.85 billion
1990 - 5.3 billion
1995 - 5.7 billion
1999 - 6 billion
2006 - 6.5 billion
2009 - 6.8 billion
2012 - 7 billion
2027 - 8 billion
2044 - 9 billion
2050 - 9.2 billion

The chart above shows past world population data back to the year 1900 and future world population projections through the year 2050.

Latest official current world population estimate, for mid-year 2010, is estimated at 6,852,472,823.

geography.about.com...


Global Warming: Global warming, or climate change, is a subject that shows no sign of cooling down. Earth is already showing many signs of worldwide climate change.
Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.
The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

Graph showing air temperature through the decades.




But why Mars?

Water: One reason is that Mars is, of all the sun’s planets, the most promising second home for humanity. If some day humans are to live permanently on Mars, we need to know what the Martian water table amounts to and how much water is there. For many years, we’ve believed there is water on Mars because there’s ample geological evidence that liquid water existed on the surface of Mars long ago, when Mars had a denser atmosphere and somewhat warmer temperatures. When Mars turned colder, there’s no mechanism by which all that water would have disappeared, so it’s almost certainly tied up beneath the surface as permafrost, like the water beneath the lands of northern Alaska.
We know that life on Earth requires at least some water, so if there had never been any water on Mars, as may be the case with some bodies in the solar system, then that would decrease the odds of there having been life in the past. We know life on Earth is quite tenacious, so if life existed on Mars in the past it’s possible that it’s still there in some form. We don’t know. The debate about water on Mars, and how much there is and under what conditions, has gone on for decades. There have been long swings of the pendulum back and forth.

ampin.wordpress.com...


The challenges of living on Mars.

Satisfying Basic needs of man:
When we design a spacecraft, we have to take into account all the extra facilities to be added to the spacecraft in order to make it inhabitable by man.
As discussed earlier the basic needs of man such as food, water, light, oxygen, eliminating body wastes of humans must be taken care of. All this adds to the amount of payload, which directly increases the amount of fuel needed.
Health Factors
Man may not be very comfortable traveling in space for a long duration of time. That is because man's body is not adaptable to space. Though the conditions at Mars are not as inhospitable as that of Venus, they nevertheless are not designed for human stay. Health disorders are also caused due to the reduced gravitational forces of mars.

Radiation
Earth's magnetic field blocks most of the cosmic radiation that is directed on it. But Mars has no such gravitational field. Astronauts have to face enormous amount of cosmic radiation during such a long mission and there must be procedures to block it. Radiation is added to the already existing cosmic radiation if nuclear propulsion engines are used.

Coming back to earth
When manned missions are sent to any place, it is of utmost importance to get the astronauts safely back on earth. But the distance to Mars is really huge and it is not possible to carry enough fuel to get the crafts back onto earth.
All these reasons make success of manned mars missions difficult.

library.thinkquest.org...

What will we need, and how can we get all these things?


Physical needs:

Water
Air
Food
Warmth
Sunshine
Clothing
Buildings


Technological needs:

Electricity
Materials
Tools
Computers & communications
Vehicles & fuel
Robots

Life support equipment
Electronics, computers & communications gear
Robots, machinery, motors, tools
Solar panels, windmills
Seeds, animals
Cooking equipment
Games, books, musical instruments


Health & Fitness

Low gravity means loss of bone and muscle:
When people on Earth decide to start working out, they do so for several reasons. We exercise to keep our hearts healthy, tone muscles, reduce stress or lose a little weight. For astronauts living in an environment like the International Space Station or Mars however, exercising isn't a matter of choice it's a necessity. They need to keep moving in space for all of the above reasons and more.
Why are astronauts on board the ISS working out so much? Aside from keeping fit and staying on top of their game, the main reason astronauts work out during trip into outer space is because they suffer from a condition similar to osteoporosis, a disease that results in a significant amount of bone loss.

science.howstuffworks.com...


Terraforming.

The terraforming of Mars is the hypothetical process by which the climate, surface, and known properties of Mars would be deliberately changed with the goal of making it habitable by humans and other terrestrial life, thus providing the possibility of safe and sustainable colonization of large areas of the planet.
In the future, population growth and demand for resources may create pressure for humans to colonize new habitats such as Mars, the Moon, and nearby planets, as well as harvest the Solar System's energy and material resources.[2] Terraforming Mars would hypothetically make Mars habitable to humans.



en.wikipedia.org...





So, should we colonize on Mars? You’re Opinions?

The gravity and radiation is what concerns me the most, we plan on colonizing Mars but it will be a one way trip.
We send people over there and they will never come back, after a few generations the "Martians" will probably look absolutely nothing like us. And if something goes wrong you have 6 months to wait for help.

As for terraforming, would an atmosphere even be possible with Mars weak gravity and constantly being blasted by the Solar Wind?

reply to post by Alpal


Yes we should colonize Mars, but underground for all the obvious reasons.

Rather than have all our eggs in one basket, exposed to the dangers of the Cosmos, we should spread ourselves as far and wide as possible.

Cosmic...

reply to post by Alpal

Population growth: As the population on earth increases we will eventually “run out of room”.

This does not make much sense, IMHO. We ran out of room long ago, just look at overpopulated third world. Africa would be colonising moons of Saturn by now if this argument had any merit..

Living on Mars will be very hard, getting there will be even more challenging. It will most probably be done for science and prestige, but do not expect any mass exodus from overpopulated Earth, that is just not realistic, and would not solve anything in the first place.

Overpopulation will be solved by traditional methods - wars, diseases and famine, or by Chinese-like population control, not going to another planet.

Nice summary!

Absolutely we should colonise Mars. I believe humanity's ultimate goal is to understand and overcome this bizarre reality we've all found ourselves in. Although I believe Earth will sustain us for many thousands of years, colonisation of Mars is our next logical step towards this goal.

Our evolution is at a point where we do not require nature (that is, randomly mutating with the hope of striking beneficial qualities at the expense of individuals). Evolution from this point will be technological.

Typical arguments against this type of endeavour include:
- "We've already destroyed the Earth; Let's not go and wreck yet another planet"
- "What about Africa? The money could be spent helping Africa"

Humans aren't as bad as people think. 99% of people are good natured and caring. Do not extrapolate from an evil minority. It's only a very small minority who are making war declarations, stunting clean-energy development, and strangling society into submission.

If we spent 50 billion instead feeding Africa, they will be hungry again tomorrow. Africa can only be saved by overthrowing their insanely corrupt governments because they are ones preventing infrastructure development, creation of jobs and thriving economy. Until that happens, Africa will always be hungry no matter how much money you send their way. Colonising Mars does not make their situation worse.

As much as we hate to admit it: humans are incredibly smart beings and we usually know what we're doing. How? Look around you, it's either that or a wet cave shivering in a pouch of hog skin. So let's quit hanging onto nature (which intends to kill you of age and randomly mutate your children). Let's move forward and just appreciate the exciting times ahead of us.

reply to post by indigo21

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d8a38250b998.jpg[/atsimg]

Yes. I have read the atmosphere has been getting thicker over the last 20 years for mysterious reasons.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/840f43db64b4.jpg[/atsimg]

Planting the flag on Phobos with terraformed Mars...

reply to post by Alpal


Definately an interesting proposal, but as you pointed out the biggest hurdle with such a mission would be it's reliance on earth as a means of sustaining any colony. Considering we have finite resources on earth and the cost of such resources within the current system being so high, it seems highly unlikely that such a mission could be performed sometime in the near future with our current technology.

Personally I'd love to see such a mission happen, but I'd rather see every human being fed and clothed before seeing such a vast amount of money being spent on a mission to Mars.

yes we should go now. There are people who think that Mars should not be infected with the virus known as humanity. These people lack the basic human spirit.

I'm all for colonizing Mars, but we must divorce ourselves from this "go and return" mentality. It's far more effective to make these one-way trips, and have the explorers also be the first settlers. In addition, we need to send as much supplies as possible first, and then have it there when the first ones arrive.

We need redundancies upon redundancies, as it would simply take too long for help to arrive. Constant shipments of supplies must always ensure the Mars inhabitants have way more than they need, especially until they can fend for themselves.

Closed ecosystems where everything except energy is recycled will be a big advantage for such colonisation. Something like an advanced version of Biosphere 2. Not to mention that such a technology will be of great importance even down here on Earth..

Should we colonize on Mars?

Pretty sure we already did that...


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9ea61e2d4bfa.jpg[/atsimg]

(credit: T. Warchocki)


.... and we messed that one up too. (wink)

YES! We really need to do this. The benefits are far too many. The issue is how do you start? You send supplies, living modules and energy sources first. Then you plan for scheduled supply missions. The hard part is that the first ones there won't be coming back. They are the ones that will explore, set up the living quarters and start digging and burrowing into the ground and setting up all the communications equipment and experiments and monitoring stations. New colonists arrive every six months with the supply vessels. Before you know it there are dozens, hundreds, thousands on Mars with the technology to mine the minerals and ship them back to earth as well as return flights back to earth. We then set up missions from Mars to other planets and we keep leap frogging and setting up stations until we reach the edge of the solar system and beyond.

So what do you send first? Supplies for 2 years, redundent living modules and a crew of 12 with another crew of 12, six months after. You also send up excavating equipment and all your comm equipment. Easy when you factor in members from different countries all paying their part. Russia, India, EU, Japan, China, Canada. What's the cost? 12-24 billion? Bill Gates could fund that himself. Let's do it.

It would be smart but no economy in the world can afford to do so. Terraforming would take centuries of funding with absolutely no returns. Tough pill to swallow.

There is no reason we cant colonize the moon in the mean time. Send everything needed ahead of time, establish a permanent outpost the could support say, 500 people. It'd be a nice life insurance policy for mankind.

reply to post by indigo21


The situation in Mars will be the same as in Africa - they will have everything that they need right there. Just need to get it togehter and make it work.

A Mars colony will need domed growing rooms - to produce oxygen and food. This crops require minerials so a mechinised mining operation needs to be happening. Given where we are in robotics we could have this sorted out before humans even arrived.

And really you wouldn't even need to send any from here, just send eggs and sperm and have the robots mix the test tubes when everything is ready. They can do the teaching as well.

This of course does not reduce the population here, but really the transport is where the big cost to Earth comes from as well. And I don't buy into the overpopulation thing anyway (take a look at the decrease in poputation growth rates since the 60's.

1750 791,000
1800 978,000 187,000 23.64 0.47
1850 1,262,000 284,000 29.04 0.58 0.11
1900 1,650,000 388,000 30.74 0.61 0.03
1950 2,518,629 868,629 52.64 1.05 0.44
1955 2,755,823 237,194 9.42 1.88 0.83
1960 2,981,659 225,836 8.19 1.64 -0.24
1965 3,334,874 353,215 11.85 2.37 0.73
1970 3,692,492 357,618 10.72 2.14 -0.22
1975 4,068,109 375,617 10.17 2.03 -0.11
1980 4,434,682 366,573 9.01 1.80 -0.23
1985 4,830,979 396,297 8.94 1.79 -0.01
1990 5,263,593 432,614 8.95 1.79 0.00
1995 5,674,380 410,787 7.80 1.56 -0.23
2000 6,070,581 396,201 6.98 1.40 -0.16
2005 6,453,628 383,047 6.31 1.26 -0.13
Year World

What is achieved as our eggs are no longer in one basket. The colony given initial mechanical support can grow as fast as they like. Mining to build bigger domes, to grow more food/build more mining machines and support a bigger population.

reply to post by indigo21

Humans aren't as bad as people think. 99% of people are good natured and caring. Do not extrapolate from an evil minority. It's only a very small minority who are making war declarations, stunting clean-energy development, and strangling society into submission.

While I appreciate your optimism, I would point out that this "evil minority" has done a pretty damn good job of causing unspeakable atrocities. It's not as if they are just carrying about their evil business in their little group. They continuously suck us into their plots because we are expendable in their eyes. They are killing us off in many ways....and apparently people are content with that because we still have people signing up for the military, despite these wars based on lies and the fact there appears to be no end. We still have people who don't think the U.S. government would kill it's own citizens. Most people still go about their business and have no concern over what's being put in our water, sprayed in our skies, injected in our bodies, etc.

This is not a beautiful world we live in....not at all.....there are indeed, loving and kind humans, but this world is full of ugliness these days. I'm just keeping it real, here.

Who the hell wants to live on Mars? NOT ME! No THANKS! Anyone who wants to hightail it over to the Red Planet can be my guest. I have no desire to live underground, or in a dome, or have nothing but red dust to look at when I look out the windows of my little "bubble" I'll have to live in.

I'm sorry, but if the time comes when humanity's survival is going to rely on us colonizing Mars--or the moon for that matter--I say that will be the time when humanity has worn out it's welcome. We are not that magnificent of a species, as evidenced in the condition of our planet and our society. We are too prone to destruction to be that important.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'm all for colonizing Mars, but we must divorce ourselves from this "go and return" mentality. It's far more effective to make these one-way trips, and have the explorers also be the first settlers. In addition, we need to send as much supplies as possible first, and then have it there when the first ones arrive.

We need redundancies upon redundancies, as it would simply take too long for help to arrive. Constant shipments of supplies must always ensure the Mars inhabitants have way more than they need, especially until they can fend for themselves.

I don't know if we should be aiming to go and not return, but I certainly agree we should prepare based on that. As I understand it we don't have the ability to do more than a one way trip, this is something we need to work on. Definitely sending supplies ahead is essential, but we also need to send the materials needed to sustain ourselves.

I know it's a fictional programme, but if anyone saw the episode of Doctor Who which was set in a colony on Mars, I liked the way they'd created a massive greenhouse that enabled them to grow food but also grow trees, which I believe helped with oxygen. This is the idea we should be looking at for Mars. The ability to grow stuff.

We can always live underground here too when we run out of room. Why go all the way to Mars when we have air, water and everything we need here?
If it's impossible for millions to live below ground on Earth then how is this going to be accomplished on Mars?
Wouldn't it be wiser to TRY it here first and see if it can be done?

And who's to say the water isn't toxic for humans?

So many questions......

Originally posted by Flighty

We can always live underground here too when we run out of room. Why go all the way to Mars when we have air, water and everything we need here?
If it's impossible for millions to live below ground on Earth then how is this going to be accomplished on Mars?
Wouldn't it be wiser to TRY it here first and see if it can be done?

And who's to say the water isn't toxic for humans?

So many questions......

Surely putting people on Mars is about so much more then Earth being over populated? Based on what you said we would never have bothered exploring Earth at all. This really is no different, it's just a litle further.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by indigo21

 

Humans aren't as bad as people think. 99% of people are good natured and caring. Do not extrapolate from an evil minority. It's only a very small minority who are making war declarations, stunting clean-energy development, and strangling society into submission.

While I appreciate your optimism, I would point out that this "evil minority" has done a pretty damn good job of causing unspeakable atrocities. It's not as if they are just carrying about their evil business in their little group. They continuously suck us into their plots because we are expendable in their eyes. They are killing us off in many ways....and apparently people are content with that because we still have people signing up for the military, despite these wars based on lies and the fact there appears to be no end. We still have people who don't think the U.S. government would kill it's own citizens. Most people still go about their business and have no concern over what's being put in our water, sprayed in our skies, injected in our bodies, etc.

This is not a beautiful world we live in....not at all.....there are indeed, loving and kind humans, but this world is full of ugliness these days. I'm just keeping it real, here.

Who the hell wants to live on Mars? NOT ME! No THANKS! Anyone who wants to hightail it over to the Red Planet can be my guest. I have no desire to live underground, or in a dome, or have nothing but red dust to look at when I look out the windows of my little "bubble" I'll have to live in.

I'm sorry, but if the time comes when humanity's survival is going to rely on us colonizing Mars--or the moon for that matter--I say that will be the time when humanity has worn out it's welcome. We are not that magnificent of a species, as evidenced in the condition of our planet and our society. We are too prone to destruction to be that important.

Since all humans are bad, and evil.
I'm just going to ignore you, as you're possibly an evil human waiting to do harm.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you should stop other people from wanting to do soemthing.
I hope close minded, scientifically illiterate idiots like you never get into power.