The time for law enforcement reform is now!

I have spent the last month pouring over videos of police officers assaulting citizens for no other reason than keeping them accountable by video taping them in public. While I will concede that some of the people do come to close in proximity to the police and thereby inhibit the investigation, the ratio is at least 5:1.

A police officer in any state of America is afforded the same rights under the constitution as any ordinary citizen. By that merit any citizen is afforded the same right as a police officer. Unless you are under arrest or are breaking a law that merits an arrest they have no more power than you do.

That being said, I have recently seen so many videos where police have assaulted citizens for video taping them in public while they have done nothing wrong. Assault is Assault, if the police came to your house for a domestic disturbance because you got angry and flung a stack of papers off the counter and one of them hit your wife, you could be arrested and charged with domestic battery, a very serious charge, jailed, fined, your life ruined in the blink of an eye.

The disturbing part is if you try to film a peace officer in public these days, they do much worse and are only very rarely held accountable, some times they are warned, reprimanded and in extreme cases fired, but my question is why are they not charged with crimes? As an officer of the law, you must observe the same and exact laws you have SWORN to uphold, yet this is abused all over the states on a daily basis and very few of these criminals are taken to task.

I am much less concerned that Joe Smith had his camera slapped out of his hand and the officer was reprimanded and there was a lawsuit as I am with the same charges being brought against them as would be any other private citizen.

If you assault somebody, you assault them, if you rob a citizen of there civil liberty without just cause it does not matter if you hold a badge or not. A crime is a crime, if you knowingly put somebody in handcuffs without probably cause and unjustly, then it is kidnapping and false arrest.

Law enforcement needs to now perform by the standards they expect everyone else to conform too. Know your job, read the constitution and know what is actually is law instead of creating it on the fly, further more, make it so that if you don't know, act irresponsibly or are just in a bad mood that day, you need to face the same "justice" you dole out based on your own feelings and not actual law.

reply to post by Helious


Ultimate Power Corrupts when power is given to an individual in most cases. We must take this power away from them; I say mandatory Jail Sentence to Officers in breach of protocol. Because many officers breach their protocol and they get away with heinous crimes and breaches of civilian rights.

Its rather Disgusting something needs to change that is what i am sure about. Before they become the Gestapo because that is the next step.

Because the cops, even the "good" cops, close ranks to protect their own. One of the vids I saw was of a handcuffed teen getting beat up in the police station by a cop, with at least two other cops just standing there watching.

Originally posted by XRaDiiX
reply to post by Helious

 

Ultimate Power Corrupts when power is given to an individual in most cases. We must take this power away from them; I say mandatory Jail Sentence to Officers in breach of protocol. Because many officers breach their protocol and they get away with heinous crimes and breaches of civilian rights.

Its rather Disgusting something needs to change that is what i am sure about. Before they become the Gestapo because that is the next step.

I agree 100% they need to be held accountable if there actions are not just. Too many times, people are to suffer spending the night in jail, forced out of bail money, miss work just to have bogus charges dropped with absolutely no consequence to the police officer, there is no motive for them to actually investigate the crime, they simply have become lazy and will arrest the first person who irritates them regardless of the actual facts.

As a bartender I have witnessed this multiple times, it is not enough to have charges dropped, if you rob somebody of there freedom unjustly, you are violating there civil rights and in extreme cases... Kidnapping.

reply to post by XRaDiiX


No,
They will just change the protocol.

reply to post by notsofunnyguy

Police officers in almost all parts of the civilized world use video in there cruiser dash cams, if it is legal for them to film the encounter and enter it into evidence in the courts, why should it be illegal in any part of the US for a private citizen to do the same? There are video cameras on every major traffic light, on city streets, 50 on every Walmart that are used every day in court to prosecute crimes.

Why is the average citizen deprived of these same rights? Unless, there is something they don't want you to see unless it is spun in the interest of there own agenda?

Found a bit of "good" news, in a roundabout sort of way:

theeconomiccollapseblog.com...

Downside: cities don't have enough money to pay for city services.
Upside: fewer cops on the payroll to beat up citizens
Downside: more gangs and crimes in cities that are going bankrupt
Upside: citizens banding together to put a stop to criminal activity (which will probably include the activities of the remaining bad cops as things continue to get worse).

Originally posted by notsofunnyguy
Found a bit of "good" news, in a roundabout sort of way:

theeconomiccollapseblog.com...

Downside: cities don't have enough money to pay for city services.
Upside: fewer cops on the payroll to beat up citizens
Downside: more gangs and crimes in cities that are going bankrupt
Upside: citizens banding together to put a stop to criminal activity (which will probably include the activities of the remaining bad cops as things continue to get worse).

Most communities can police themselves. Not all, but surely most. The police are there to enforce impromptu judgment and ultimately, too collect money for the area they work in.

Protect and serve has gone by the wayside in place of auto guilty and arrest bonuses and incentives.

A last insertion, please watch this video and tell me your thoughts because if this is not assault and kidnapping, I sure as hell don't know what is.

reply to post by Helious


"A police officer in any state of America is afforded the same rights under the constitution as any ordinary citizen. By that merit any citizen is afforded the same right as a police officer. Unless you are under arrest or are breaking a law that merits an arrest they have no more power than you do. "

Police can arrest for misdemeanors and Felony's committed in their presence, and for Felony's based on probable cause (per 836.3PC in Calif)... and detain you based on probable cause for whats called a "reasonable" amount of time... an hour, I think... last case law / ruling I recall anyway.

Citizens can arrest for misdemeanors and Felony's committed in their presence, and for Felonys they know were committed 837PC in Cali. Should some bouncer or security guard ever put a finger on, or arrest, you.. arrest them back. Demand a citizens arrest for battery 837PC/242PC. Don't be broken hearted if the DA / City Attorney doesn't file charges, you still win by tagging bouncer dude with an arrest record he'll have to explain for the rest of his life.

After a career pushing Holstein sleds to and fro, IMO.. one solution is eliminate career police officers. Like military reserves, cops work the streets X number of days a month/year.. then return to their powerless day jobs.

Police Depts are quasi military.. "deployed" to the "front lines", so called, fighting the "war" on plants & fake terrorists. Cops share similar experiences risking their lives together... bonding into cohesive units, "it's "Us" versus "them" out there man!"

Having zero authority and enjoying no off-duty "professional courtesy" 6 months of the year, IMO, would remind law enforcement folks whats it's like to be Joe Dirtbag. More empathy wouldn't be a bad thing.

reply to post by Helious


Well, there are lots of things about that last video you posted that bother me.

1. Would have been nice to have some sound (not your issue, just that I would like to know if the cop bothered to identify himself, especially since he was in civvies and had a gun drawn).

2. As far as I could tell, there were no police lights, so it looked like some civilian cut the motorcyclist off then got out of his car with a gun in his hand and came after him (from the biker's point of view at that moment, I would have been backing up too).

3. What's with the 16 years for wiretapping BS? Really? Public highway, camera in full view. Unless there's some sort of law against all of that where this happened, which was not mentioned in the interview.

4. Sounds like they raided the guy's house after he posted the video. That's pretty crazy, even for the cops. Makes me wonder what else might have been going on with this whole story. Maybe the biker saw/recorded something else, or the cop at least thought he did? Just weird, and very Gestapo-ish.

Like I said in my previous post, at least with the economy tanking, there will be less money for cities to pay for cops like this guy.

ETA: On the plus side, at least he didn't beat the guy. I guess that's something.

reply to post by GovtFlu

Should some bouncer or security guard ever put a finger on, or arrest, you.. arrest them back. Demand a citizens arrest for battery 837PC/242PC. Don't be broken hearted if the DA / City Attorney doesn't file charges, you still win by tagging bouncer dude with an arrest record he'll have to explain for the rest of his life.

In most states security officers do not have the ability to arrest you. Niether do bouncers. They can detain you for a reasonable amount of time untill a police officer arives. There is a big difference and the level of force allowed to maintain detention varies.

However, working as agents of a private entity they do have the right to use force under certain circumstance. It usually goes like this.

They deter problems with presence. They can ask you to leave. They can use soft hands to escort you off of the property. They can use "hard hands" if you resist. If you escelate the use of force they can take it to the next step. In some locations that can include lethal force if you attack them in a manner that puts them in fear of grievious bodily injury or death. In other areas all it requires is that you use a blunt or knife edged weapon.

You have those same rights on your property in many places.

If you are on another person's property and refuse to leave they can use force. So, your citizen's arrest may be unwaranted, or may land you in jail. Filing a false report is a felony in some jurisdictions. That means "tagging" the bouncer may get you a much worse record.

Be careful, and if you are on private property just comply and leave. Getting argumenitive with the person does nothing. At the moment they tell you to leave private property you have no legal right to be there. It is that simple and it doesn't matter what you think. Remember, my property my rules. People have to follow the rules in your house, you have to return the favor.

Police Depts are quasi military.. "deployed" to the "front lines", so called, fighting the "war" on plants & fake terrorists. Cops share similar experiences risking their lives together... bonding into cohesive units, "it's "Us" versus "them" out there man!"

I work with police officers 48 hours a week. I have been in some tense and tight situations with these guys. I have had others open up and tell me their life stories. I have yet to hear a single officer say anything in regards to "us vs them." Most of the ones I know take it very seriously and are out there to protect the lives of people.

Just this morning we got a call about a suspicious person in a bus stop. We went to check out the call because the caller made it sound like the person was drugged out and a proplem. We got there and it turns out the guy was treated for a severely sprained ankle at a local ER.

When he was discharged the buses had stopped running. When he informed the charge nurse that he couldn't afford a taxi she gave him a bus pass. When he said the bus had stopped running she said, I guess you'll be sleeping in the bus stop.

We checked his discharge papers. They were current and he was a local resident. The officer could have arrested him for vagrancy. He could have arrested him for public intoxication because of the pain medication they gave him. Instead the officer offered him a ride all the way across the city. We took the guy home, made sure he got inside, and gave him the number for a social worker that could help him get transportation to his follow up visit.

That will not be a you tube video. What will be on you tube is an edited video of a guy on a motorcycle that ran from cops. What makes it on you tube is the extremely rare interaction that goes bad. When the above video first got attention it also came out that the guy had been videoing himself doing in excess of 100mph on his bike and driving agressively. He also tried to out run the cops.

As for the Chicago guy, that is what I expect from Chicago. It will get a trial in the state supreme court at least. Even the legal experts on CNN and Fox were amazed when it came out. It is a clear abuse of a law that was not written for that purpose.

It is estimated that there are about 50,000 cops on patrol at any given time. It is estimated that there are nearly 500,000 police - civilian interactions per day. That ranges from reporting a lost wallet to the big time crimes. If there are 1,500 interaction per month that go bad, that is .1% of all interactions. That is about the same failure rate as birth control. I would say those are pretty good numbers in the scheme of things.

Are there bad cops? Absolutely. Serpico proved that coruption was rampant in the NYPD. Arizona has had some issues. I will not deny that there are bad cops. However, in many cases the violent and abusive cops are weeded out. Seatle recently proved that with the "Wood Carver" killing. The police department did their job and ousted that guy. He will not be a cop any where else. (I believe the DA missed the call on that one. That is another thread though.)

Remember the vast majority of cops are just like you. They just chose to enforce the rules of society. A lot of times people dont run in to them as often as they could. Many officers are using "officer's discretion" to avoid messing with people. They don't want to stop people for every thing they see. They usually want to go after the ones that are causing a serious issue. However, if you are being so blatant that they have no choice they must act. Officer's will tend to use their discretion if you are discreet.

Remember one simple thing. The cops do have a dangerous job. They run towards danger when others run away. They face the most sick and depraved individuals society can offer up every day. If you want to record an officer, keep your distance. If you stay forty feet away, that makes the cop feel more secure. (21 feet or closer is a very bad idea. That is considerred the red zone for cops.) If you aren't yelling a barage of questions, that makes the cop feel more secure. He doesn't know if the guy he is dealing with is psycho or not. Your distraction puts his life in jeopardy.

There are mental disorders that can be well hidden untill the person decides to unviel them. I have seen calls go from 100% peacefull and polite (everybody was laughing) to a fight for the officer's survival in the blink of an eye.

Remember another thing. These people deal with the absolute worst that the world offers day in and day out in most places. I have seen mother's prostituting their 10 year old daughter to buy meth. I have seen babies cry for milk while dad is drinking his Milwauke's Best and claiming he doesn't know where those ten stolen GPS units came from. Stuff like that takes a toll on you that no one else understands. Eventually you get jaded and you do lose a bit of what makes you human.

In the end though. Police brutality is not common, and it is not accepted as common practice in most places. Cops usually leave people alone if they are not a danger to others or their self. Most of them good people that really do care. They aren't revenuers taking bribes while trampling the constitution.

ETA:

I know the spelling and gramar is really bad. I just came off of a 12.5 hour shift. I posted as a stream of thought and it shows. I think the point is clear though. I'm not going to edit it. I am going to smoke and sleep.

reply to post by MikeNice81


Really great points and I totally agree. I also agree with the OP though and think it is time for the public to take a stand and make it clear they will not tolerate abuse or put up with corruption in their Police force.

reply to post by Helious


Yes some police officers enforce bogus laws; breach their protocol and innocent citizens rights on a daily basis. The Heinous crimes are being committed everyday they are hypocritical egotistical narcissistic people who won't allow you to record them in public places when they do the exact same to people.

The reason they don't want you to record them is because then they will have repercussions for their breach of protocol; Therefore these police officers are criminals and thugs.

reply to post by MikeNice81


www.dailymail.co.uk...

400 Police Officers.

reply to post by XRaDiiX


See my earlier refrence to Serpico. NYPD is often looked upon with disdain in LE circles.

Do Not talk about it and put it aside until you have time for it. You may think that you will never have any encounter with them. Think again because it will be too late when it happens.

There was a recent thread here about a mentally ill child who went berserk and started throwing a tantrum. The teacher called the police and had the student handcuffed.

Some people in the thread felt that teachers should be able to hit the students and discipline them like in the "good old days."

Some people felt that sue happy America ties the teachers hands and she was right to call the police to protect herself from reprisal so she could just do her job.

So, scaring a teacher into inaction for fear of reprisal for every little thing and preventing them from hitting children is bad. Scaring the police into inaction is good.