Founders of top poker Web sites indicted

It will be interesting to see what becomes of this issue...This could be one of the greatest swindles in poker history!!! Who's to say the feds and the said poker-rooms aren't in this together? We all know there is cheating where there is money involved, and online pooker rooms are where it's at. The sites are ALL rigged for the house to make the money and not the players. The players are the losers.

If the US people DO NOT get there cash back, have thier cash seized or are forever banned from playing, then this is a huge money laundering swindle, by the feds and (possibly) the poker rooms thierselves, Irony there hey?

I mean really, with those accusations against the poker rooms, why are they still allowed to operate at all? Something isn't adding up. I do realize that there isn't jurisdiction to stop other countries citizens from online gambling, but if a company is laundering money the company should be shut entirely. Just my thoughts.

Anyway i'm glad Jokerstars and Bulltilt are getting thier just deserts. But I do feel bad for the US citizens freedoms being taking away like that. BS

reply to post by gangstarr


Really?

There are many people who lost their source of income as a result of this. Why should I work a stressful job when I can make more playing poker? For a skilled player it is about as risky as being an active trader on the stock market.

To me the Nanny State has won and any hope of the US being a free country that protects life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is gone. The USA has been hijacked and very few seem to care.

Well let's see... State Run Lotteries are ok because they supposedly benefit education (never mind the fact our local school can't afford paper this year), but online poker isn't? I know this isn't a popular opinion lately, but I personally despise gambling, legal or otherwise, but it sounds more and more like a protection racket than a government lately. Gambling is fine and dandy as long as 'THEY' are the ones holding all the cards.

Originally posted by Chipkin9
The sites are ALL rigged for the house to make the money and not the players. The players are the losers.

You are way off. The house takes rake so it can never loose, the rake in online poker is much less than a casino so one actually has a mathematical advantage of playing online. Only about 10% of poker players make money in the long run so there are a lot of losers but the fact is people can and do make a living off simply playing poker.

For me I had all kinds of promotions that paid me to play online such as rakeback, I could break even and at the end of the week end up ahead when I receive my share of the rake back.

There are a lot of misconceptions on online poker, the most common is it is rigged to favor the house or their pros. Most of those who accuse online poker to be rigged are poor players that are upset that they can't win and have no understanding of the mathematical concepts to the game so they resort to claiming the game is rigged.

Thanks for the topic OP. I read the same thing earlier this morning on another site. Ironically, just yesterday I was considering opting in another online betting system. However; it was sports related and due to the breaking news, I am glad I did not participate.

Originally posted by Marlborough Red
Shut down online poker (used by the masses) but leave Wall St (run by the elite) alone......

What's the difference between online poker and "investment banking".....?

Absolutely nothing....!

Oh sorry there is a difference; if you gamble online in poker and loose, you loose your money, period. If you gamble on Wall St and loose you get bailed out by the tax payer......

This world really is F*****d up.....



MR

There is another difference. In online poker everyone has the same information and plays by the same rules. I think the only mistake online poker made was not buying... I mean 'donating' millions to politicians.

i play on absulute poker.
and yes they do do it.

they cant eccept credit or bank card's...but you buy a phone card and they transfer money for it to the poker account.
they always win.

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by KnowledgeIsPowre

 

i wonder why it's always Friday when they choose to do this kind of thing?

Maybe something to do with no 'official' offices will be open over the weekend so no one can hand in paper work or something till monday at the earliest - and even then it's going to be in a big pile with everyone elses, it's like a free 2 day head start in some respects, the Lawyers are on the golf course by 2pm on Friday anyway, all the staff at the offices are in weekend mode. That's my 2 cents

reply to post by jrod


I used to play online and I guarantee it's rigged. I'm not one to toot my own horn, but I am a very good player. I have finished 1st in numerous large field freerolls and know hot to play all the forms of poker. Day in and out you can see how bigger stacks at the table and in the tournies suckout 80% of the time with crap hands (And playing like an idiot know doubt) because they know how the "RNG" favours them...I myself have found myself flawless in tourneys, hitting everything and sucking out the majority of hands when I get good prices to see turn and river.

I have got 17 hands saved on my comp from the last tourney I played at on full tilt, and there was this one guy who was going all-in preflop EVERY hand. Out of all those hands he got called about 10-12 times and won 9-11 of them!!! Each time with the worst hand, I will gladly upload them for you to view. That is a huge statictical flaw, and I care not to argue my point about the site not being "Random" at all...Because You and I both will not listen, so we'll agree to disagree!

Again if you wish for me to upload the said hands I will!

reply to post by Chipkin9


17 Hands is not statistically significant. Freerolls play much different than real money games. I am assuming you play holdem where the best starting hand(AA) looses 20% of the time to a random hand, almost 40% of the time to two random hands and looses over 50% of the time against 3 random hands. Also a lot of people dont realize that a small hand like 65 vs AK is only a 40/60 underdog. Also pot odds are a concept that weaker players do not use, pre flop in hold'em if you are getting 4:1 or better on a call then it doesn't matter what cards you have, mathematically you are correct to call.

You can post your hand histories if you want. I've been playing online for years have been a winning player. Full Tilt is not rigged. Now days a lot of people use heads up displays that tracks their opponents tendencies and if you are not aware of that you are at a big disadvantage.

UB did have a scam with a few 'super' users that were able to see their opponents hole cards. Those people were caught and blacklisted and UB's reputation in the poker world was ruined.

I was playing a live game last night at my local poker room and saw and hand where one guy had AA and the other KK on both players made flushes, when something like that happens online people are quick to scream rigged.

Originally posted by jrod
reply to post by Chipkin9

 

17 Hands is not statistically significant. Freerolls play much different than real money games. I am assuming you play holdem where the best starting hand(AA) looses 20% of the time to a random hand, almost 40% of the time to two random hands and looses over 50% of the time against 3 random hands. Also a lot of people dont realize that a small hand like 65 vs AK is only a 40/60 underdog. Also pot odds are a concept that weaker players do not use, pre flop in hold'em if you are getting 4:1 or better on a call then it doesn't matter what cards you have, mathematically you are correct to call.

You can post your hand histories if you want. I've been playing online for years have been a winning player. Full Tilt is not rigged. Now days a lot of people use heads up displays that tracks their opponents tendencies and if you are not aware of that you are at a big disadvantage.

UB did have a scam with a few 'super' users that were able to see their opponents hole cards. Those people were caught and blacklisted and UB's reputation in the poker world was ruined.

I was playing a live game last night at my local poker room and saw and hand where one guy had AA and the other KK on both players made flushes, when something like that happens online people are quick to scream rigged.

edit on 16-4-2011 by jrod because: (no reason given)

Yes I do realize 17 hands is insignificant...Heck 1000 hands is technically insignificant, but I was just speaking of the last time I have played poker online...For me that was the nail in the coffin, so to speak. Once you see donks who don't take the game seriously and running riot with weak preflop hands, you gotta ask questions. I mean think about it...one player at a table (a donk no less) winning 40-60 (And sometimes less) preflop hands 5 times in a row is just a bit much for me.

I've had that AA v KK happen to me twice in a row on stars...Only it was AA v AA and KK v KK and I lost to flushes both times lol...I mean really?

reply to post by Chipkin9


Do you ever play live games? The same thing happens, in live games I've seen horrible players run good play every hand and make a lot of money real fast because lady luck was on their side.

I was playing a few thousand hands a day on Full Tilt and have taken my share of beats but still haven't seen any patterns I would be suspicious about. Heck I once flopped a set of aces got it all in on the flop only to loose to runner runner quads, someone actually called me off with a lower pocket pair with an ace on the board and got paid for it.

To be a winner at the game you have to know the game well and use proper money management. Variance is so great that if you get in the habit of risking for than 5% of your bankroll in any one game then you are destined to go broke regardless of your skill level.

reply to post by jrod


Ok so I exaggerated a little...I had 9 hands from that tourney saved to my comp, and I have uploaded them for you to see this sh1t. Can't deny there's something dodgy going on...Maybe it's not intentional on the sites behalf, but I just do not trust "RnG's"...They are designed for profit that's all i'll say.

I also have played roulette and blackjack for REAL and have experienced a losing streak of 12 and more on a 50-50 colour...on several occasions. Once a losing streak of 11 on blackjack...But it's funny i've won nowhere near that many times consecutively lol

So no I don't trust "RnG's" and never will again...Lesson learnt!

Here is the hands img715.imageshack.us...

You'll need to zoom in to see what hands we were on.

Back to the topic.

I wrote my congressman about this issue and will continue to do so until I get a response because I want my voice to be heard. I encourage everyone else who is passionate about this latest encroachment by the FEDs to do the same. We have to send a clear message that we do not stand for this.

reply to post by jrod


Yes I do understand the luck factor, and unfortunately I haven't been popular with the poker gods.

I used to play live with my dad and his mates, but a mix of lack of funds (On my behalf) and a decline in numbers has seen me not play for a while


It was limit...But the first 3 occassions I played I come out with the most profit. One guys was a serial raiser and bluffer, so I took advantage of him alot. I remember calling him all the names under the sun one time (In my head) after I flopped trip queens and he kept re-rasing me. On the river I think a Jack neededs to be held for the straight

Anyhow I don't think i'm cut out for poker anymore

reply to post by Chipkin9


Those are freerolls and people do crazy and stupid things on there and one can expect to see some really bad beats because so many people are willing to gamble with any 2 because none of their money is at stake. Run the odds on an odds calculator and you will see that in half of those games the winner wasn't much of an underdog preflop. Also there is not enough info, I do not know how the betting went down and on what street the all-in occurred at because that makes a huge difference. Nothing in those hands is out of the ordinary, especially given those are freeroll tournaments.

Originally posted by jrod
reply to post by Chipkin9

 

Those are freerolls and people do crazy and stupid things on there and one can expect to see some really bad beats because so many people are willing to gamble with any 2 because none of their money is at stake. Run the odds on an odds calculator and you will see that in half of those games the winner wasn't much of an underdog preflop. Also there is not enough info, I do not know how the betting went down and on what street the all-in occurred at because that makes a huge difference. Nothing in those hands is out of the ordinary, especially given those are freeroll tournaments.

He was going all in preflop every hand...There was no betting on the turn or flop.

Goddam federal authorities, letting the bankers get off scott free, and now I can't even play poker on-line for "play chips".

Where are the priorities?

Un-freakin believable.

When are the people going to wake up?

When its too late is my guess.

Time for a damn revolution.

Originally posted by gangstarr
Well thats a good thing, because gambling is more addictive than drugs, and its ruing our culture. So Im happy that these sites get closed down, for the simple reason that people would rather gamble than get a real job.

Whats ruining culture is your authoritarian attitude that people's own business is actually your own. For the simple reason you want to force your morals on everyone else. You don't own me, so hands off.

reply to post by HoldTheBeans


No, the Federal Reserve owns the banks (hence FDIC) as well as the debt currency that we use everyday. The Federal government has pulled the biggest pawnsy scheme in history because of the Federal Reserve.