GOP establishment feeling heat in South Carolina

Link

For 30 years this state has served as the firewall for establishment Republican presidential hopefuls, the place where insurgents who emerged from Iowa and New Hampshire went to die.

In 2012, that tradition might end.

GOP activists attending county party conventions last weekend here and in next-door Greenville County – the heart of the conservative Upstate –made scant mention of Mitt Romney, Haley Barbour and Tim Pawlenty. Instead, the talk is of Michele Bachmann, Donald Trump and even Allen West, a rookie Florida congressman who’s shown no interest in running for president.

The only Southern state which is one of the four first primary states is now apparently turning away from its heritage of establishment Republicans to the new era Republicans from the Tea Party. With Romney, Barbour, and Pawlenty pushed aside this has left the door open to the grassroots Republicans to fill the gap for 2012.

Problem I see however is that Mike Huckabee is an establishment Republican with a more populist tone. He is not mentioned in this article at all and I found that interesting since he is generally seen as a Southern darling of the GOP. Having Romney, Daniels, Pawlenty, and the others like them fail in this state, even this region, would be no surprise to those who follow the politics of the Deep South.

I do believe 2012 will show a large schism in the GOP between the Establishment Republicans or, Old Guard, and the Anti-establishment Republicans or, Tea Party. This division will be known well before the primaries actually begin as campaigning heats up. Eventually there will have to be a champion of the Tea Party and a champion of the Old Guard selected and they will have to battle each other for the nomination.

2012 is shaping up to be a very interesting year indeed.

Originally posted by MisoirThe only Southern state which is one of the four first primary states is now apparently turning away from its heritage of establishment Republicans to the new era Republicans from the Tea Party. With Romney, Barbour, and Pawlenty pushed aside this has left the door open to the grassroots Republicans to fill the gap for 2012.

Problem I see however is that Mike Huckabee is an establishment Republican with a more populist tone. He is not mentioned in this article at all and I found that interesting since he is generally seen as a Southern darling of the GOP. Having Romney, Daniels, Pawlenty, and the others like them fail in this state, even this region, would be no surprise to those who follow the politics of the Deep South.

I do believe 2012 will show a large schism in the GOP between the Establishment Republicans or, Old Guard, and the Anti-establishment Republicans or, Tea Party. This division will be known well before the primaries actually begin as campaigning heats up. Eventually there will have to be a champion of the Tea Party and a champion of the Old Guard selected and they will have to battle each other for the nomination.

2012 is shaping up to be a very interesting year indeed.

Gov. Nikki Haley is representative of politicians to come in South Carolina. She's run against the wind all of her life, and the battle she put on this past year was nothing short of awesome. Not even wild allegations of an affair could slow her down; and the funny thing is, those allegations came from a Republican blogger that everyone USED to listen to. Will Folks is persona non grata in any respectable circle these days.

I just wish the Republican Party would change its positions to more closely reflect the wishes of the People, and those wishes were made quite clear this last election: PEOPLE WANT THE TEA PARTY! They are tired of RINOS and their status quo. It's time for some REAL change.

ETA: S&F 4U

reply to post by OldCorp


Thanks OldCorp.

Now I have never really spent much time listening to the Tea Party or reading about their ideological preferences except here on ATS and the news outlets (which I do not trust to be honest). Since I am going to assume from your statements that you are a Tea Partier might I get your opinion on a few subjects?

1. What is the general position on foreign affairs? Isolationist, Non-Interventionist, or Interventionist?
2. What is the general position on globalization? Pro or Anti?
3. How about protectionism both in trade (import tariffs) and immigration (restrictions and/or quotas)? What is the general position on that?

Seeing as how I consider myself more in line with the Old Right; Isolationist, pro-tariff, support immigration restrictions, opposition to welfare state and federal income/corporate taxation, opposition to a national welfare state, staunch states’ rights advocate, and a cultural conservative, would you say that general classification is what the Tea Party is mostly about?

I pretty much hate all Neoconservatives, Liberals, and Socialists alike.

I'm a South Carolina voter too and I don't see anything wrong with Romney. Well I would prefer that he not be Mormon but I won't hold that against him. I would have preferred a chance to vote for him over Obama during the last election. I thought he dropped out because he knew whoever won the last election wouldn't be very well liked after the economy continued to go downhill. I would have just said it's part of the business cycle instead of blaming the last guy in office for 2 years or longer.

I thought the other day when I heard Trump could run, I was surprised. I thought no way would a lot of people want to vote for someone who is filthy rich and doesn't know what it's like to be middle class. However lots of politicians need to be rich just to be able to run for office. I heard Trump talk on CNBC the other day and he had a lot of valid points. He made a lot more sense than a number of other politicians.

I really thought this thread was going to be about a straw poll where the South Carolina GOP left Ron Paul off of it even though he will be in a debate here in South Carolina with other politicians. That must be in other news. I read some thought it was deliberate in leaving Ron Paul off and I thought they were getting heat because of it.

My thoughts are a mix where no one candidate seems perfectly matched. I don't care if the rich pay more in taxes. They can afford it. I can't very easily afford more in taxes since I have to cut back to save for higher gas and food prices. We need someone with business sense to grow our economy and create jobs here in this country. We need to develop our natural resources and have lower costs to American consumers while developing infrastructure to allow Americans to use alternative fuels. Our government is spending too much money as well. I would prefer that our money be worth something and that other countries believe it is worth obtaining. Gas and oil prices would drop if the value of the dollar goes up. Our country doesn't seem to be supporting that right now. Someone should be feeling some heat.

Originally posted by OldCorp
PEOPLE WANT THE TEA PARTY!

I agree, we need Bachman, she if for the People and freedoms!

The only Republican presidential hopeful, even though he is a long shot, that I respect the most is: Pat Buchanan.

All the rest of the Repub presidential hopefuls, in my opinion, are dangerous right wing radicals, intent on pursuing their own agenda, in order to destroy the true ideals of our founding fathers and the United States Constitution.

The Tea Party, is a media created event, not a grassroots created event; funded by the likes of: The Koch brothers and Fox's, Robert Murdoch.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Thanks OldCorp.

Now I have never really spent much time listening to the Tea Party or reading about their ideological preferences except here on ATS and the news outlets (which I do not trust to be honest). Since I am going to assume from your statements that you are a Tea Partier might I get your opinion on a few subjects?

1. What is the general position on foreign affairs? Isolationist, Non-Interventionist, or Interventionist?
2. What is the general position on globalization? Pro or Anti?
3. How about protectionism both in trade (import tariffs) and immigration (restrictions and/or quotas)? What is the general position on that?

Seeing as how I consider myself more in line with the Old Right; Isolationist, pro-tariff, support immigration restrictions, opposition to welfare state and federal income/corporate taxation, opposition to a national welfare state, staunch states’ rights advocate, and a cultural conservative, would you say that general classification is what the Tea Party is mostly about?

I pretty much hate all Neoconservatives, Liberals, and Socialists alike.

Sorry Mis, I didn't mean to leave the impression that I was a Tea Partier; if I must wear a label, I'm actually a Libertarian, but at the moment my choices are pretty slim pickins if ya dig what I'm sayin'. The Tea Party is the closest thing to Ron Paul-style conservatism as I can get.

I can tell you how I feel personally tho:

*Get us OUT of these wars, and don't start any more unless the US is directly threatened.

*The UN wants us to lead a "coalition" like Libya? Fine, I can deal with that - as long as the UN PAYS for every dime of the operation.

*REFORM Medicare & Medicaid's rules before just taking an ax to them. Their rules (with the help of the DEA) are forcing doctors to write prescriptions for the latest, most expensive medicines available rather than allow the use of Generics. If the DEA would just get their noses out of the doctor/patient relationship and stick to investigating actual crimes, we could save BILLIONS and not have to cut benefits to those who need the assistance most of all: the elderly and disabled.

*Legalize marijuana. After 40 years of the failed War on Drugs, with the DEA ADAMANTLY refusing to let it even be studied as a medicine by researchers, the DEA has finally done a 180 stating that marijuana IS an effective medicine, and the agency is considering allowing pharmaceutical manufacturers to do what they do. Of course, then again we will run into the problem of patented medicine that is WAY overpriced. The taxes collected can be folded right back into Medicare/Medicaid to increase their solvency. California collected $15 BILLION in tax revenue from the sales of JUST medical marijuana last year. If it were completely legal in all 50 states, I can't even begin to calculate the possible revenue.

*Reform Social Security. SS was supposed to be a safety net for those whose jobs did not provide for retirement, but it's gotten way out of control. If I were King, I'd stop payments to those who make a certain amount of money each year - say $250,000 - from other sources. Did you know that even millionaires collect Social Security? And they get BIG monthly checks too. Take SS benefits away from ONE millionaire, and you can provide them for 100 "regular" people. That to me is a no-brainer. Think of it as a "Luxury Tax."

*Suspend ALL foreign aid (yes, including to Israel.) Most of the people to whom we provide monetary aid (NOT humanitarian aid) hate our guts anyway, and nothing we do will ever change their minds. We're just wasting that money. Our allies, such as Israel, will be fine. I'm all for helping those who are in REAL need of aid, but IMO charity begins at home. As long as there are hungry and homeless in the US, we have no business giving away a single penny to other countries.

*Tax the HELL out of US based multinational corporations. GE is the second largest company in the entire world, yet last year they didn't pay a single DIME in taxes. There's something wrong with that. If the government wants to give tax breaks to businesses, I'm cool with that - to a point. I would tax the companies that "offshore" their workforce to the point where it is economic idiocy to do so. This would not only substantially increase our tax revenue, but it would also provide millions of desperately needed jobs right here in the US. Two years ago I had an MRI done. I asked the tech when I could expect the results, and I was told, "As soon as the radiologist reads your films and send back his report." "Sends it back from where?" I asked. "Oh," she replied, we email the images to INDIA where they are interpreted." Not even doctors are safe from losing their jobs to workers in other countries.

*Scale back - or eliminate - government bureaucracies. The Department of Education is not only a joke, but education belongs under the purview of the states, and not the federal government anyway. I can't recall them all, but there are multiple redundancies in the federal government that could be consolidated. I like the idea of hiring an accountant, like in the Kevin Klein movie "Dave," to go through the books and eliminate stupid, wasteful, government programs.

I could go on and on, but it's just common sense really. The idiots we have in Washington only care about one thing: getting re-elected. Term limits come to mind, as does Athenian democracy where everyday citizens took their turns at the helm of the ship of state, and when their term was up they went home. The Greeks did just fine for several hundred years under this mode of government until the Romans came along with their Republic. Republics can all too easily become dictatorships as history has shown - then AND now.. Professional politicians are the bane of modern democracy, and it is obvious that they "serve" themselves rather than their constituents once elected.

Finally, I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. Although I would change the word "hate" to the phrase, "I think people who hold to a party line - regardless of party - are short-sighted and simple-minded." IMO, the best thing for the country would be to eschew partisan politics and find a candidate somewhere in the middle who isn't beholding to extreme left or right wing special interest groups.

I'm sure I've forgotten something important, but that should provide a good basis for discussion.

Peace,
OC (Ron Paul's 2008 precinct captain and personal bodyguard.)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9fcded86fc04.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by Erno86


I cannot believe it, someone else who sees Pat Buchanan as their favorite! I am not alone!

There would be nothing in this world that could make me happier then even at least a Pat Buchanan run for the White House. Under my bookmarks his website is at the top because I check on it every day to see if he posted any more great works.

Have you read his books? I have read a couple of them and current reading ‘Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War’.

This is my favorite part of his epic speech:


IMO he speaks of the true American values, the ones we always heard about growing up and what made this nation glorious. We should have heeded his advice years ago and our current situation would not be.

Originally posted by OldCorp

*Get us OUT of these wars, and don't start any more unless the US is directly threatened.

This we can agree on. Ever hear of the Just War Theory?

*The UN wants us to lead a "coalition" like Libya? Fine, I can deal with that - as long as the UN PAYS for every dime of the operation.

I still could not support it because it is still no threat to our individual sovereignty. For me it is not just about the economics of the war but also the morality of it.

*REFORM Medicare & Medicaid's rules before just taking an ax to them. Their rules (with the help of the DEA) are forcing doctors to write prescriptions for the latest, most expensive medicines available rather than allow the use of Generics. If the DEA would just get their noses out of the doctor/patient relationship and stick to investigating actual crimes, we could save BILLIONS and not have to cut benefits to those who need the assistance most of all: the elderly and disabled.

We could also hand it back down to the States to manage so our nation would have 50 different laboratories of government efficiency.

*Legalize marijuana. After 40 years of the failed War on Drugs, with the DEA ADAMANTLY refusing to let it even be studied as a medicine by researchers, the DEA has finally done a 180 stating that marijuana IS an effective medicine, and the agency is considering allowing pharmaceutical manufacturers to do what they do. Of course, then again we will run into the problem of patented medicine that is WAY overpriced. The taxes collected can be folded right back into Medicare/Medicaid to increase their solvency. California collected $15 BILLION in tax revenue from the sales of JUST medical marijuana last year. If it were completely legal in all 50 states, I can't even begin to calculate the possible revenue.

The War on Drugs, just like every other war our government has fought in the past half century, is a failure. The states should be allowed to make the decision on the legality of drugs.

*Reform Social Security. SS was supposed to be a safety net for those whose jobs did not provide for retirement, but it's gotten way out of control. If I were King, I'd stop payments to those who make a certain amount of money each year - say $250,000 - from other sources. Did you know that even millionaires collect Social Security? And they get BIG monthly checks too. Take SS benefits away from ONE millionaire, and you can provide them for 100 "regular" people. That to me is a no-brainer. Think of it as a "Luxury Tax."

Problem with that is I see it as a form of redistribution of wealth. You get back what you opt to pay into it. If you don't want to be a part of SS then keep your funds out of the system, if you want to be part of SS you will get only the money back what you put into it. Once again it should be managed by the states.

*Suspend ALL foreign aid (yes, including to Israel.) Most of the people to whom we provide monetary aid (NOT humanitarian aid) hate our guts anyway, and nothing we do will ever change their minds. We're just wasting that money. Our allies, such as Israel, will be fine. I'm all for helping those who are in REAL need of aid, but IMO charity begins at home. As long as there are hungry and homeless in the US, we have no business giving away a single penny to other countries.

All I have to say is... AMEN.

*Tax the HELL out of US based multinational corporations. GE is the second largest company in the entire world, yet last year they didn't pay a single DIME in taxes. There's something wrong with that. If the government wants to give tax breaks to businesses, I'm cool with that - to a point. I would tax the companies that "offshore" their workforce to the point where it is economic idiocy to do so. This would not only substantially increase our tax revenue, but it would also provide millions of desperately needed jobs right here in the US. Two years ago I had an MRI done. I asked the tech when I could expect the results, and I was told, "As soon as the radiologist reads your films and send back his report." "Sends it back from where?" I asked. "Oh," she replied, we email the images to INDIA where they are interpreted." Not even doctors are safe from losing their jobs to workers in other countries.

Well actually the tax loopholes should be closed up then reduce the corporate tax to a flat 15%. A strict import tariff should also be erected which fills in the differences between our country and another nation's labor costs, then add another 5-7% to make sure the influence is that they stay here in this country. Overall about 20-25% would be levied against China alone.

*Scale back - or eliminate - government bureaucracies. The Department of Education is not only a joke, but education belongs under the purview of the states, and not the federal government anyway. I can't recall them all, but there are multiple redundancies in the federal government that could be consolidated. I like the idea of hiring an accountant, like in the Kevin Klein movie "Dave," to go through the books and eliminate stupid, wasteful, government programs.

Basically every executive agency created after 1933 is a waste of our money and resources, except maybe the EPA but even they have gone so far and have been hurting Americans in Appalachia for decades now.

Eliminate: Health & Human Services, HUD, Transportation, Education, Veterans Affairs, Homeland Security.

Now I know the Veterans Affairs part is very controversial but states should be the ones to make those decisions and should be encouraged to do so. Our veterans would be much better off with an efficient state run agency for their needs rather than the over-regulated and bureaucratic federal government.

I could go on and on, but it's just common sense really. The idiots we have in Washington only care about one thing: getting re-elected. Term limits come to mind, as does Athenian democracy where everyday citizens took their turns at the helm of the ship of state, and when their term was up they went home. The Greeks did just fine for several hundred years under this mode of government until the Romans came along with their Republic. Republics can all too easily become dictatorships as history has shown - then AND now.. Professional politicians are the bane of modern democracy, and it is obvious that they "serve" themselves rather than their constituents once elected.

I do think our Founding Fathers made a limited Republic for a reason, it is us the citizens who are at fault for letting the government grow so large. Now we are complaining about the monster we created. It reminds me of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. So for us to correct it 'We The People' must stand up and demand it.

Peace,
OC (Ron Paul's 2008 precinct captain and personal bodyguard.)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9fcded86fc04.gif[/atsimg]

edit on 4/13/2011 by OldCorp because: Added Pic

I cannot wait to cast my vote for Ron Paul.

Originally posted by Misoir






I pretty much hate all Neoconservatives, Liberals, and Socialists alike.

Now this sounds like someone who we should listen too??

This can't possibly be whats wrong with the country today, can it?? If only everyone could be like you the world would be so much better.

Do you hate all jews? what about baptists? Blacks? Asians? Pro-choicers? Union folk? Middle class? Poor folk?

I thought this site was about denying ignorance, not displaying it?

Parker

I'm from South Carolina, and I can tell you from experience that the people here would vote for a donkey if it brayed the right way about certain subjects. We had a moronic homeless guy actually win the democratic ticket for governor in this state, and he got 30% of the vote.

reply to post by Misoir


I just spent an HOUR crafting a reply, then I hit some button somewhere and it all went POOF! It's 2 a.m. so I'll try again tomorrow. This is a very interesting discussion, and I'll be back to tackle it tomorrow after I get back from the observatory.

Nighty,
OC

'Latest S.C. Straw Poll Win Goes to Ron Paul'
By: CNN Political Reporter Peter Hamby
www.politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

Bluffton, South Carolina (CNN) - Texas Rep. Ron Paul won the latest in a string of presidential straw polls being conducted in key South Carolina counties this month ahead of the state Republican Party convention in May.

Paul won the vote at the Lexington County Republican Party convention on Saturday, taking 16 percent of the 139 ballots cast. Lexington is considered a bellwether county in Republican primaries and is home to South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, but the party organization there has seen an uptick in libertarian-leaning Paul supporters in recent years.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who has done almost no presidential spadework in the crucial early primary state, had another respectable straw poll showing and finished in a tie for second place with business mogul Donald Trump, taking 12 percent of the vote.

Romney finished fourth in a Greenville County straw poll last weekend and second in a Friday night vote at the Charleston County convention.

Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, who won the Charleston straw poll and attended Saturday's Lexington event in person, finished with 10 percent and tied for fifth with former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

Lexington GOP Chairman Rich Bolen also asked party members to pick their second choice for the Republican nomination. Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann won that poll with 18 percent of the vote.

In the grand scheme of presidential campaigns, of course, straw polls are only informal surveys conducted by a relative handful of party activists. But they can be helpful in providing an early read on how the GOP's most dedicated voters in key primary and caucus states view the 2012 field. Some straw polls are more informative than others, however.

Heavily Democratic Orangeburg County hosted its GOP convention on Saturday and ran a straw poll with 30 names on the ballot, including several noncandidates such as former South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, Michigan Rep. Thaddeus McCotter and House Speaker John Boehner. But only 25 Republicans attended the convention.

The GOP are deliberately hamstringing themselves by giving o much attention to novelty/joke candidates like Trump and Bachman.

Just like they did with McCain/Palin in 08. The Republicans dont want to win in 2012. The economy is still in the pooper, and will be for years. Biding their time til 2016 i there best bet to take back the WhiteHouse.

The shenanigans until then will be entertaining to be sure.