Moses: Creator of the Hebrew nation?

In another thread the Ark of the Covenant has been discussed and I wondered about the Arks in Egypt - Why the Ark of the Hebrews was so similar to the known arks in Egypt..

After some research in the similarities of the Egyptians and Hebrews it dawned on me that Moses could have been the Creator of the Hebrews as we know them.

Consider:

The Hebrews were a nomadic people who did not have metal working skills or a written language. They wondered around and at times went in and out of Egypt sometimes raiding for their needs. This upset the Egyptians who drove them off time and time again. At times some of the Hebrew people choose to stay and live in Egypt.

It is said that Moses was born of a Hebrew woman and then raised ( after being given up and set afloat in a basket of reeds) by an Egyptian woman who was royalty. Moses was raised as an Egyptian, not a Hebrew. He knew their written language, their religion, their science. Moses grew to become a high ranking person in the Egyptian government. ( He certainly would have seen and handled Arks during this time).

After Moses left Egypt with the Hebrews he wrote the first 5 books of the Hebrew bible. He instructed these non metal workers to build the Ark similar to the ones he had seen in Egypt - made partly of metal and with crafted pieces. Yet this type of ark and it's building surely must have been nothing new to Moses.

So during those 40 years in the desert, Moses did what - got back in touch with his lost Hebrew ancestry?

There are many similarities in the stories of the books of the Old Testament that Moses wrote to the Egyptian laws and religion. Many of the words in Hebrew can trace their source back to the Egyptian language. Many of the religious themes of the Hebrews were directly borrowed from the Egyptians. Moses knew the Egyptian religion well.

I submit to you that Moses an Egyptian educated man wrote the books of the Hebrew bible with his own slant and much embellishment. In his writings, he created for the Hebrews the type of God and Life he wanted the Hebrews to live. Quite Literally.. he created the Hebrew religion as we know it - He made it all up based on his Egyptian knowledge.

Before Moses, the Hebrews were just a bunch of wandering sheepherders.

After Moses, The Hebrews became (especially in Moses's narrative) A collected force to be reckoned with who had a mighty god on their side

You say to me, But wait! Your wrong! The Hebrews had an established relationship with God dating back to Abraham!

Or did they... How do we know this..Here's the kicker - because Moses told us so !

Could it be that actually Moses created the god of the Hebrews in His own image?

Ohhh boy oh boy. I wish it wasn't so late and I had the motivation to start ranting - Freud wrote an interesting book on Moses and Monotheism.

Funny how the Promised Land's name consists mostly (2/3) of Pagan names that is to say, IS(is) and (amen) RA, the third being EL from Elohim - a plural form, much like Adonai (Lords) - I wonder if Moses might have been formally trained as an Egyptian Priest? Or perhaps something else?

Google about - there is much food for thought.

"Amen."

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Just guessing, no disrespect meant at all . . . in any form . . . but are you by chance Muslim, atheist perhaps? Your opinion has truths mixed with that of falsehoods; you present fact with fiction!

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Just guessing, no disrespect meant at all . . . in any form . . . but are you by chance Muslim, atheist perhaps? Your opinion has truths mixed with that of falsehoods; you present fact with fiction!

Actually I'm a god fearing Christian. Do tell.. what falsehoods do I present?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

After Moses left Egypt with the Hebrews he wrote the first 5 books of the Hebrew bible. He instructed these non metal workers to build the Ark similar to the ones he had seen in Egypt - made partly of metal and with crafted pieces. Yet this type of ark and it's building surely must have been nothing new to Moses

Ok, above is ONE example. Moses was instructed by God on the construction of the Ark. Where has it EVER been said that Moses instructed "non-metal workers to build the Ark similar to the ones he had seen in Egypt?"

Didnt Noah build the ark out of wood?

Originally posted by nonnez

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

After Moses left Egypt with the Hebrews he wrote the first 5 books of the Hebrew bible. He instructed these non metal workers to build the Ark similar to the ones he had seen in Egypt - made partly of metal and with crafted pieces. Yet this type of ark and it's building surely must have been nothing new to Moses

Ok, above is ONE example. Moses was instructed by God on the construction of the Ark. Where has it EVER been said that Moses instructed "non-metal workers to build the Ark similar to the ones he had seen in Egypt?"

That wasn't written in the Bible. We know from historical records that until the time of the Exodus anyway the Hebrew peoples did not practice metal working as a craft/art. The instruction in the bible gives concerning the Ark building shows that it is similar in construction to the known arks the Egyptians had used for years.

reply to post by Dr Expired


We are not speaking of Noah here. And yes Noah built that Ark out of gopher-wood as the Bible tells; as Whole different thread than this however.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Ok, you are speculating from thin air. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, except in cases when it is attempted to pass this information on as fact. Insinuation, speculation, or assumed premise is not fact . . . it is only as accurate as the next fictional source that is void of any historical representation. Sorry, bzzzzzt, wrong answer . . . thanks for playing!

Here is some interesting reading about the Ark of the Hebrews being similar to the arks the Egyptians used.

alex.alexmayers.com...

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Sorry, any "Arks" that are SPECULATED as fact in Egyptian history are just that . . . SPECULATION ! Check your sources always . . . there are so many sources out there on the internet these days, if it had not been for the mention of the Ark of the Covenant in scripture . . . we would not even be having this conversation right now.

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Ok, you are speculating from thin air. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, except in cases when it is attempted to pass this information on as fact. Insinuation, speculation, or assumed premise is not fact . . . it is only as accurate as the next fictional source that is void of any historical representation. Sorry, bzzzzzt, wrong answer . . . thanks for playing!

edit on 26-3-2011 by nonnez because: f

I never said I was stating facts.. just a nice little conspiracy that I think no one has considered. It does seem to fit what we know about the Hebrews and Moses. It could be that Moses made the Hebrews out to be more than they were.

This does not negate my belief if a supreme God the Father or his Son. That can be very real no matter if some things in the Bible are false or embellished for whatever reason. Moses would have been in The Best Position to be the one to have done that with his knowledge and education. If you will he was the first really educated Hebrew. There had to be some influence on the Hebrews from Egypt and in turn Moses's influence on these wandering sheepherders.

Originally posted by nonnez
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Sorry, any "Arks" that are SPECULATED as fact in Egyptian history are just that . . . SPECULATION ! Check your sources always . . . there are so many sources out there on the internet these days, if it had not been for the mention of the Ark of the Covenant in scripture . . . we would not even be having this conversation right now.

Sorry to disappoint unless I'm not understanding you right, but arks from Egypt are very real, and have been found in many places. The descriptions of the ark of the covenant do closely resemble these Egyptian arks. There are also pictures on them on walls in Egypt.

www.thelivingmoon.com...

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Fine, you are entitled to your opinion, I agree with that. Good luck on your thread, I am done with it. No disrespect intended on my part I assure you . . . take care.

Tutankhamun’s dad was called Akhenaten. He created a completely new religion in Egypt – the ‘One God’ religion – that God being Aten.

He banned worship of the traditional gods and had a new city built in honour of Aten. He was NOT a popular Pharaoh. Tutankhamen had originally been known as Tutankhaten but when he succeeded his father (after a short spell by his uncle first) he changed his name back in honour of the traditional gods.

When Akhenaten was succeeded by his younger brother the Egyptians attempted to eradicate all trace of his new religion and even destroyed the new city he had built.

Despite what the bible claims the Hebrew nation were never slaves in Egypt. In fact they intermarried with Egyptians, even with the pharaonic lineage. Is it plausible that the story of Moses is simply a metaphor for the inter marriage of Hebrew and Egyptian royals?

There is a theory that Akhenaten was of this Hebrew/Egyptian lineage and that he was, in fact, Moses. (The timeline roughly equates - Akhenaten reigning from 1353bc-1336bc. Rabbinical Judaism calculates Moses as having lived 1391–1271 BCE. Not a million miles apart.)

The 40 years ‘wandering in the desert’ was actually a 40 year emigration to the ‘promised land’ to follow this new and unpopular One God religion.?

If it was true that Akhenaten was Moses it would explain a lot of the blatant plagiarism from Egypt evident in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Akhenaten /Moses would have been privy to the teachings of both cultures at their very highest levels.

Originally posted by christina-66
Tutankhamun’s dad was called Akhenaten. He created a completely new religion in Egypt – the ‘One God’ religion – that God being Aten.

He banned worship of the traditional gods and had a new city built in honour of Aten. He was NOT a popular Pharaoh. Tutankhamen had originally been known as Tutankhaten but when he succeeded his father (after a short spell by his uncle first) he changed his name back in honour of the traditional gods.

When Akhenaten was succeeded by his younger brother the Egyptians attempted to eradicate all trace of his new religion and even destroyed the new city he had built.

Despite what the bible claims the Hebrew nation were never slaves in Egypt. In fact they intermarried with Egyptians, even with the pharaonic lineage. Is it plausible that the story of Moses is simply a metaphor for the inter marriage of Hebrew and Egyptian royals?

There is a theory that Akhenaten was of this Hebrew/Egyptian lineage and that he was, in fact, Moses. (The timeline roughly equates - Akhenaten reigning from 1353bc-1336bc. Rabbinical Judaism calculates Moses as having lived 1391–1271 BCE. Not a million miles apart.)

The 40 years ‘wandering in the desert’ was actually a 40 year emigration to the ‘promised land’ to follow this new and unpopular One God religion.?

If it was true that Akhenaten was Moses it would explain a lot of the blatant plagiarism from Egypt evident in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Akhenaten /Moses would have been privy to the teachings of both cultures at their very highest levels.

I wish I could flag your post Pretty much what I wanted to rant about last night!

reply to post by christina-66


Thanks for your reply.. very interesting. I had not heard this line before and plan to research it. Why do you claim the Hebrews were never in captivity in Egypt?

In any event.. there has to be more here than is being told by the Bible. Too many things about the Hebrews don't add up without the Egyptian influence.

This site claims to put Moses in Egypt from Egyptian texts around the 12th Dynasty.

arismhobeth.com...

When you get to the bottom of this page you then go on to 13 chapters of literature from the 12 Dynasty that correlates the Biblical stories of Moses to the writings in Egypt of the 12 Dynasty. Here emerges a complete picture of the biblical accounts from Egyptian authors. This is Egyptian history backing up the stories of Moses.

It is very long and I have not read it all but plan to and find this interesting because previously it had been believed that there were no Egyptian accounts of the story of Moses.

purplemonkeydishwasher

I have looked up this book and am getting a copy. The above links mention this theory of Freud's from Moses and Monotheism, but do not use it for this account.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
In another thread the Ark of the Covenant has been discussed and I wondered about the Arks in Egypt - Why the Ark of the Hebrews was so similar to the known arks in Egypt..

After some research in the similarities of the Egyptians and Hebrews it dawned on me that Moses could have been the Creator of the Hebrews as we know them.

Consider:

The Hebrews were a nomadic people who did not have metal working skills or a written language. They wondered around and at times went in and out of Egypt sometimes raiding for their needs. This upset the Egyptians who drove them off time and time again. At times some of the Hebrew people choose to stay and live in Egypt.

It is said that Moses was born of a Hebrew woman and then raised ( after being given up and set afloat in a basket of reeds) by an Egyptian woman who was royalty. Moses was raised as an Egyptian, not a Hebrew. He knew their written language, their religion, their science. Moses grew to become a high ranking person in the Egyptian government. ( He certainly would have seen and handled Arks during this time).

After Moses left Egypt with the Hebrews he wrote the first 5 books of the Hebrew bible. He instructed these non metal workers to build the Ark similar to the ones he had seen in Egypt - made partly of metal and with crafted pieces. Yet this type of ark and it's building surely must have been nothing new to Moses.

So during those 40 years in the desert, Moses did what - got back in touch with his lost Hebrew ancestry?

There are many similarities in the stories of the books of the Old Testament that Moses wrote to the Egyptian laws and religion. Many of the words in Hebrew can trace their source back to the Egyptian language. Many of the religious themes of the Hebrews were directly borrowed from the Egyptians. Moses knew the Egyptian religion well.

I submit to you that Moses an Egyptian educated man wrote the books of the Hebrew bible with his own slant and much embellishment. In his writings, he created for the Hebrews the type of God and Life he wanted the Hebrews to live. Quite Literally.. he created the Hebrew religion as we know it - He made it all up based on his Egyptian knowledge.

Before Moses, the Hebrews were just a bunch of wandering sheepherders.

After Moses, The Hebrews became (especially in Moses's narrative) A collected force to be reckoned with who had a mighty god on their side

You say to me, But wait! Your wrong! The Hebrews had an established relationship with God dating back to Abraham!

Or did they... How do we know this..Here's the kicker - because Moses told us so !

Could it be that actually Moses created the god of the Hebrews in His own image?

An interesting idea but the whole baby found in the reeds story is a plagarisation, and many notable authors have also postulated that Moses and the Egyptian Pharoh Akhenaten are the same person - meaning that in all possibility Moses aka Akhenaten was born in Egypt became Pharoh and as documented history states when Akhenaten changed the pantheistic religions of Egypt to one of Monotheism - the worship of Aten - the nation revolted and kicked him out of Egypt - hence the exodus of the bible. Sigmand freuds book Moses and Monotheism sheds alot of light on this subject - www.ebooks-for-all.com... eism/onecat/0.html

Originally posted by TattooedWarrior

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
In another thread the Ark of the Covenant has been discussed and I wondered about the Arks in Egypt - Why the Ark of the Hebrews was so similar to the known arks in Egypt.. -Snip-

An interesting idea but the whole baby found in the reeds story is a plagarisation, and many notable authors have also postulated that Moses and the Egyptian Pharoh Akhenaten are the same person - meaning that in all possibility Moses aka Akhenaten was born in Egypt became Pharoh and as documented history states when Akhenaten changed the pantheistic religions of Egypt to one of Monotheism - the worship of Aten - the nation revolted and kicked him out of Egypt - hence the exodus of the bible. Sigmand freuds book Moses and Monotheism sheds alot of light on this subject - www.ebooks-for-all.com... eism/onecat/0.html

As stated above I have already mentioned this.. Why do you say the baby in the reed thing was plagarisation ? I have read many texts on this and have only found one other who agrees with Sigmund. Even if the baby in the reed thing is false it does nothing to disprove my theory that this Egyptian educated Moses embellished or made up the stories we read in the Bible - in fact, it does more to support it.