CBO: Taxing mileage a 'practical option' for revenue enhancement

CBO: Taxing mileage a 'practical option' for revenue enhancement

thehill.com[ /url]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) this week released a report that said taxing people based on how many miles they drive is a possible option for raising new revenues

The report discussed the proposal in great detail, including the development of technology that would allow total vehicle miles traveled (VMT) to be tracked, reported and taxed, as well as the pros and cons of mandating the installation of this technology in all vehicles.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
[url=http://www.omaha.com/article/20110323/NEWS01/703239866]www.omaha.com

Governments, both state and federal have discussed the mileage tax for years, but did not have the where with all to implement it, nor was the technology readily available at a reasonable price point.

Now that the government is totally broke and the price points on this gear has dropped considerably, they are likely to give it a harder push.

A while ago, when the fake Toyota problems were all the rage, the government was talking about placing a black box in all cars. They want to know what you are doing in your vehicle. Where you're going, how fast you're driving.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

When you think about what the mileage recorder would mean, it is absolutely a direct infringement on your personal privacy. By what right does the government to track your travel patterns? By what right to they mandate the installation of something in your vehicle?

Do you have any doubt what so ever that the money collected by these taxes will be used to pay for pork projects? One of the largest wastes of money we currently have is these bogus infrastructure efforts. Efforts, which divert money from real infrastructure work that has been neglected for years. Should they get this passed, within a few years we'll be paying for the Harry Reid overpass in some backwater town in Nevada.

This is the most insidious kind of tax. Its like the tax on your phone bills, included in hotel room rates, it is the kind of tax that you don't realize that you are paying and when the rates go up, you simply pay more without realizing it.

I wonder what they will do with all of the Mexican trucks Obama just gave liscence to drive in the US absent inspection. Those folks going to have to get Government meters on their rigs?

The nickel and dime taxes are an easy way for the govern to steal more of the efforts of your labor. Below is a link to a story about some pol who wants a national tax on toilet paper.

It is not going to stop, ever, until we get to a place where you show up at some cinder block building once a month and some gent in a brown, high collar uniform gives what his bosses, bossess, bossess, boss thinks you should get that month.

www.omaha.com...

Good luck government, I'll add this to the list of laws I break on a daily basis.

There is a thread laying around here somewhere which shows how Denmark or Sweden or someplace like that used this same tax per mile. Instead of it turning sour, the people actually embraced it. The pollution was cut drastically, congestion was non-existant, and people were generally happy about all of it.

( I just remembered, it was only for downtown areas)

I can see it as a good thing. Can you?

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
There is a thread laying around here somewhere which shows how Denmark or Sweden or someplace like that used this same tax per mile. Instead of it turning sour, the people actually embraced it. The pollution was cut drastically, congestion was non-existant, and people were generally happy about all of it.

I can see it as a good thing. Can you?

Except that we do not live in Denmark and Sweden, we have a much less dense population, requireing much more distance to travel. Most of our growth of towns and cities has been after the advent of the automobile, while most of Europes street systems came about before motorized transport, so they have more people that live in tightly packed cities and do not need to travel near as far.

And because of that, public transport is easier and cheaper there, and quite practical, where as in many places in the US, distances are much larger and public transport is not always practical, or even feasable.

reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand


You can't compare the US and Denmark, simply due to size and the demographics. People in the US don't want to live in cities, by and large. People are willing to drive distances to work that would be unheard of in countries like Denmark.

You want to raise money for roads? Fine. Put tolls on the roads. Tolls are a beautiful thing. You know you're paying the toll everytime you pay it. When they look to raise the toll, people raise hell. Tolls are much more difficult to raise because they are not transparent. We all want good roads. Tax what you need to tax to improve them, but tax it in an open, candid manner, not this under the radar nonsense.

Mileage is not an accurate reflection of wear and tear caused by a vehicle is, the weight of the vehicle is. Driving 100 miles in a Mini Cooper is much less damaging to the road driving 100 miles in a Ford F350. Why should the person in the Mini subsidize the gent in the truck?

What do you suppose is going to happen when businesses are paying these taxes? They are going to pass them along the value chain and the price of everything will go up. Not only are you going to pay a mileage tax to go buy something, you are going to pay more for it when you buy it.

Additionally, why should the folks who live in a state that has both done a reasonable job maintaining their roads or is in a climate that is not hard on roads pay to fix the terrible, neglected roads in a place like Illinois? Should the folks in Arizona have to pay for the folks in Illinois willful neglect of their infrastructure? No they should not.

reply to post by firepilot


You took the words right out of my fingers.

In Europe and other countries over seas, railways are usually easier, cheaper and a more practicle mode of transportation.

Here in the US cheap public transportation is almost non existant. Places like NYC, where they do have a decent railway system, cannot possibly deal with the influx of people something like this would cause.

This would never fly with the people of the US. We would be taxed for driving while not being given a viable alternative option. It would be political suicide for anyone who tries to get a bill passed that would allow it.

This is unbelievable

I am a retired Nomadic Biker and I put 25K-30K miles a year on my bike. This is just a way to keep us from moving about freely.......while making a buck in the deal. The cost of EVERYTHING would go up and at the same time the cost of just going to work would increase.

Who is comparing? I certainly didn't.

Do you know how many people drive around just to drive around? A lot more than you think.

Just think about it. That's all I asked. If MORE people used Public Transportation, they would generate much more money. More money=better modes of transportation.

I would gladly pay a tax to decrease pollution. (which oddly, isn't mentioned anywhere in this thread)

I think if you live outside of large cities, then you should be exempt from this tax.

If you live in a large city, then buy a bicycle or a scooter and you can avoid it.

......but of course, you are all right about one thing, this is America, home of fat, lazy, selfish closed minded people.

have a nice day.

There's nothing practical about a mileage tax at all. It's an economy killer. Insurance adjusters, safety officers in the freight industry, anyone in the service industries (plumbers/ electricians/ repair etc), those in outside sales...all kinds of workers and businesses would be severely harmed by a tax like that. Many of those wind up paying some percentage of their gas and maintenance expense out of their own pockets, especially in the time between gas prices shooting up and "adjustments" to their "per mile" allowance.
Even though we "don't count" , persons other than those who ride public transportation to their government jobs rely on spontaneous mobility in our jobs. Don't forget that it's our taxes that pay for public salaries, insurance, pensions, and time off (perks that people in the private sector *don't* get).

But I've been thinking about this and I have an alternative suggestion: how bout taxing the living daylights out of people who, either because they are "inconvenienced" or for the sake of "prestige", have 3- 5 cars for their 3- 5 kids starting at age 13 or 14. Revenue raised, dependence on "foreign oil"- reduced, parental responsibility- improved, traffic accidents down (reducing insurance costs for *everyone*) pollution and congestion *dramatically* reduced. Less wear and tear on infrastructure (especially guardrails and fences)
I keep hearing about the greed of that "1%", but funnily enough, the greed of public workers is never an issue.

reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand


This, like most transporation programs and taxes related to transportation are about forcing compliance with an overall notion that folks should live in some kind of nonsensical urban "commons" that, by virtue of consolidating people enables greater control over people's lives. That world view is behind the mass transportation projects, 90% of which are abject failures.

I don't care about raising money for roads. I don't have a problem with high gas taxes or tolls. I do have a problem with a tax that is meant to restrict freedom and provide more information to the government about how I conduct my affairs.

Think about it. The infrastructure is already in place to raise money via the gas tax. Why would they contemplate a program that will cost several billion to implement and manage? Does that make any sense what so ever? If they need the dough, just raise the gas tax.

Why aren't they doing that? Two reasons 1. the gas tax is very visible at the pump and would drive more transparency into what they are doing with the cash. This "mileage" tax is invisible and they can raise it at will (which is the very motivation behind the VAT) and 2. They want to implement infrastructure to track your movements.

reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand


The US doesn't have the public transportation to handle the influx of people this would cause. Those fat, lazy, closed minded americans you talk about would be forced to eat another tax that they couldn't afford.

I have been in a subway in NYC during rush hour and those things are crammed full as it is. Now take a quarter of the traffic off the street and put them in the subways with the regular crowd and it would be a disaster.

Those scooters you mentioned run on gasoline, so they too would be subjected to this mileage law.

You can't compare two small countries with a fraction of the population to the US when you talk about something like this. The public transportation system just isn't there. I wish there was because my car hardly ever moved when I was stationed in Germany. I took the rails every where, it was cheaper, easier and more convienant then driving. If we could get anywhere close to the system they have in Europe then I would jump on your little bandwagon, but for now, you're clutching at empty air.

reply to post by dolphinfan

Governments, both state and federal have discussed the mileage tax for years, but did not have the where with all to implement it, nor was the technology readily available at a reasonable price point.

If it was just a mileage tax they wanted then they could instead just up the fuel excise tax..
Looks to me that they want more than that..
They want that little black box in your car..
Next thing it will instantly deduct speeding fines from your bank, or parking fines..

They spy on us enough already..

I wouldn't mind so much if...
1. Get rid of vehicle registration fees. (It's a tax, regardless of what they call it.)
2. Get rid of gas tax. (This is a mileage tax of sorts, if you think about it.)
3. Get rid of toll roads.

My car is more than taxed enough already.

But if they did the above, I don't drive much so it might be cheaper.

Whilst a good idea in principle it wouldn't work in reality. for the simple reason that sooner or later the Government will have to raise lost revenue from fuel duty from those being not able to afford to drive when at present they can drive anywhere they want to.
The Governments get so much money from fuel duty it pays to keep the cars and trucks ON the road, as soon as people are charged for driving miles the money from the fuel duty dries up as people would have to resort to using public transport, later the fares on those would increase as the extra users means having to spend more on new trains to cope with the explosion of travellers, more facilities at stations so theres more money spent upgrading or modernising those.
But from a conspiracy point if they want to track you down when you drive they can with your fone if its GPS enabled, and if your not driving then another way is needed to track what your doing, where your going and how your living would have to be implimented so they TPTB can tax you for using public transport, for pavement wear and tear, for exhaling CO2 in to the atmosphere and causing Global warming as you walk to work as you can't afford to take public transport because of the high taxes.


Not only that the Governments get taxes from fuel but imagine if every country decided to do that , the Oil Sheiks would throw a major wobbly and still want their money and sue the governments for loss of earnings as they have threatened in the past. So is it wise for anyone to endorse taxing miles?
I don't think so.

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
Who is comparing? I certainly didn't.

Do you know how many people drive around just to drive around? A lot more than you think.

Just think about it. That's all I asked. If MORE people used Public Transportation, they would generate much more money. More money=better modes of transportation.

I would gladly pay a tax to decrease pollution. (which oddly, isn't mentioned anywhere in this thread)

I think if you live outside of large cities, then you should be exempt from this tax.

If you live in a large city, then buy a bicycle or a scooter and you can avoid it.

......but of course, you are all right about one thing, this is America, home of fat, lazy, selfish closed minded people.

have a nice day.

I live in a town of 25,000 in West Texas. The next nearest town is 40 miles (well, there are rural farming towns, but we are talking an area with jobs). So, if i have to travel i will drive at least 40 miles to a job (this could happen because there are only so many jobs in my pay grade in this town....i am currently working a commissions job just to kill time till something opens).

In my town there are no busses and no cabs (except this one run by a meth addict that no one will use). There is no public transport of any kind.

My town of 25k spreads out roughly 20 miles from north to south, and about 15 miles east to west, with a big looping area. It is, geographically, huge. Walking is out of the question for about 6 months a year due to 110 degree heat. Then again, when it is cold, it is high wind chill cold.

What you propose will not work for most of America. The big cities and far east coast? Yeah, maybe. But not the midwest or southwest.

It is a stupid idea. One that I am willing to load up my rifle and march with my countrymen over. I will not abide by this law if it passes. It is a violation of states rights (highway systems are a stste responsibility, not federal....despite the federal dollars) as well as my own privacy and right to free travel. It would alter America beyond recognition, and honestly i would rather not live in a world like that. It is worth dying for.

So they want to raise revenue for roads and they want to discourage travel for the environments sake?

Wouldnt just letting the roads fall into a terrible state of disrepair discourage travel and save everyone money?

I guess the government cant make any money off of that idea though.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
What you propose will not work for most of America. The big cities and far east coast? Yeah, maybe. But not the midwest or southwest.

Far east coast? Not unless you live AND work in the city. I live in the Washington, DC area. My drive to work is 18 miles. There is limited public transportation between my home and work. Limited in that it is only available Monday through Friday. What is a 40 minute drive takes about two hours by bus, that includes the 2.5 mile walk from the bus stop closest to the plant where I work. Add that on top of a 12 hour shift and the fact that my work week is Wednesday through Sunday...public transportation is not a viable option.

I'm with you BFFT. There's no way I would submit to this.

They backed down some on the TSA grope downs and scanners because it was causing too much tension among the populace and they feared a genuine backlash from it well looks like they are at it again. If there is one thing Americans truly care about is their vehicles because in most cities today outside of the Northeast and Great Lakes we do not have mass transit.

Looks like their plan may be to force us into mass transit and tax those who refuse. Let's see how that works out.

What isn't being said is they are going to use a GPS system to log your miles and time of day you drive them . Then when you get gas that data will be downlosded to bill you. Just a GPS connected to the government on every vehicle who would have a problem with that!!!!!