our bloody history

is our earthly agression a result

of genetic manipulation?


have we been bred for war?


is there a long term plan for us?

are we the protectors?

do the aliens have no clue how to kill?

i am purposely leaving out religion.


we make war, animals don't make war.

i have several questions posted, answer any which one you want, it will tell me volumes.

ask more questions if you like.

The agression resident in humanity is a carry over from a few things:

1. We are the decendants of a bi-pedal predator that lived on it's wits and hunted without empathy for the survival of itself/tribe/group.

2. The natural competition between males fosters agressive behaviour originally for breeding rights, but expanded out to protect hunting territory.

3. Defence mechanism for survival, and dominance.

Originally posted by Donegal_TDI
The agression resident in humanity is a carry over from a few things:

1. We are the decendants of a bi-pedal predator that lived on it's wits and hunted without empathy for the survival of itself/tribe/group.

2. The natural competition between males fosters agressive behaviour originally for breeding rights, but expanded out to protect hunting territory.

3. Defence mechanism for survival, and dominance.

i discount 2 of them,

1, we cross the line of survival and no need for extra bloodshed.

2, alpha male BS doesn't apply to us.

3, i agree.







but why are we different than other animals?

we can kill others of our kind with no problem.

is it all in our mind or is it deeper than nurture?

Not exactly bred for war, but historically baptized in rivers of blood. Blood is THAT hmmm historical back-taste that triggers our agressive instincts forward.

Originally posted by fooks

do the aliens have no clue how to kill?

Where do you base this question? Do you have extensive research that aliens don't have a clue on how to kill? Have you been abducted? I'm not being negative, just asking you this question to get where your critical thinking is coming from.

reply to post by fooks

we make war, animals don't make war.

Actually:

A study has proved for the first time that groups of aggressive chimpanzees invade the territory of their neighbours in order to acquire more resources or mates

Chimpanzees expand their territory by attacking and killing neighbours

Lethal intergroup aggression leads to territorial expansion in wild chimpanzees

This isn't just a one off either:

Chimpanzees murder for land

Originally posted by awakenone

Originally posted by fooks

do the aliens have no clue how to kill?

Where do you base this question? Do you have extensive research that aliens don't have a clue on how to kill? Have you been abducted? I'm not being negative, just asking you this question to get where your critical thinking is coming from.

well they haven't shown us recently.

no, have not been abducted.

people wonder about the benevolent "aliens" and why they don't show themselves or even why they don't help.

in the past it seems like they kicked ass and we took notice.
so how far a stretch is it that we are being "groomed" or have been gm'd into a fighting force for some future conflict.


how do you know that they do know how to kill. no mass slaughter by them that i know of.

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by Donegal_TDI
The agression resident in humanity is a carry over from a few things:

1. We are the decendants of a bi-pedal predator that lived on it's wits and hunted without empathy for the survival of itself/tribe/group.

2. The natural competition between males fosters agressive behaviour originally for breeding rights, but expanded out to protect hunting territory.

3. Defence mechanism for survival, and dominance.

i discount 2 of them,

1, we cross the line of survival and no need for extra bloodshed.

2, alpha male BS doesn't apply to us.

3, i agree.

edit on 10-3-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)

but why are we different than other animals?

we can kill others of our kind with no problem.

is it all in our mind or is it deeper than nurture?

edit on 10-3-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)

Control of agression can somewhat be carried out by free will, conscience if you will.

But in many cases it is hard coded into our genetic makeup,
baggage from an all to recent barbaric past,
tools that evolved for survival.
Evolution has all but stopped now or slowed to a crawl.
Damn near everyone has breeding rights.

All it takes in some is the trigger to initiate the venting of harcore bestial destructive behaviour.
Road rage for example, there are many others.
Many try to have total control over their actions, and succeed to the best part,
but many are incapable of this or indeed unwilling.

Selective breeding would elliminate this trait
as farmers do all the time with their herds,
but that can't be enforced for us humans.

We live in a society, my friend, that has only a very thin veneer of civility over our true nature.

Maybe that is why our ET friends keep their distance.
Ask yourself,
if you were they,
would you trust us as a species.

There are individuals yes that I would trust with my life,
but in general as a species, most definitely no.

reply to post by Griffo


excellent!

yes and they will rip off the face of anyone they want, under the influence of drugs.


well aware of chimps and their behavior.

senseless violence? not too sure about that.

but you do have a point of survival and resources.

i guess they just get more esoteric as we climb the evolutionary ladder.

reply to post by Donegal_TDI



that's my point,

you breed tigers, how close you want to get to them?

We have been made to serve our gods when they return to us when the planet reaches the middle of this density

OP, good thread, interesting questions

I have to disagree with this statement here:

2, alpha male BS doesn't apply to us.

It most certainly does, we are animals, after all.

It is the cause of most strife today, actually.

Originally posted by Donegal_TDI

Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by Donegal_TDI
The agression resident in humanity is a carry over from a few things:

1. We are the decendants of a bi-pedal predator that lived on it's wits and hunted without empathy for the survival of itself/tribe/group.

2. The natural competition between males fosters agressive behaviour originally for breeding rights, but expanded out to protect hunting territory.

3. Defence mechanism for survival, and dominance.

i discount 2 of them,

1, we cross the line of survival and no need for extra bloodshed.

2, alpha male BS doesn't apply to us.

3, i agree.

edit on 10-3-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)

but why are we different than other animals?

we can kill others of our kind with no problem.

is it all in our mind or is it deeper than nurture?

edit on 10-3-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)

Control of agression can somewhat be carried out by free will, conscience if you will.

But in many cases it is hard coded into our genetic makeup,
baggage from an all to recent barbaric past,
tools that evolved for survival.
Evolution has all but stopped now or slowed to a crawl.
Damn near everyone has breeding rights.

All it takes in some is the trigger to initiate the venting of harcore bestial destructive behaviour.
Road rage for example, there are many others.
Many try to have total control over their actions, and succeed to the best part,
but many are incapable of this or indeed unwilling.

Selective breeding would elliminate this trait
as farmers do all the time with their herds,
but that can't be enforced for us humans.

We live in a society, my friend, that has only a very thin veneer of civility over our true nature.

Maybe that is why our ET friends keep their distance.
Ask yourself,
if you were they,
would you trust us as a species.

There are individuals yes that I would trust with my life,
but in general as a species, most definitely no.

edit on 10/3/11 by Donegal_TDI because: typo

no, i don't trust us as a species. we are not ants tho. we have bonds and not even bonds that can be explained by current psychological and behavioral sciences.

it makes us unpredictable and dangerous.

have we been bred as a killing force?

why else would intelligent beings keep their distance? we aren't that stupid, are we?

why would aliens tweek us? just to have someone to talk to?

the hybrid theory doesn't make sense to me.
why muddie up your own genes? are these guys idiots?

if they can manipulate these things, i can't see them in danger of extinction.

mining gold? well, what is the definition of "gold"?

could it be lost in translation?

maybe this should be in another thread.
no vids or links, just discussion.

Originally posted by Signals
OP, good thread, interesting questions

I have to disagree with this statement here:

2, alpha male BS doesn't apply to us.

It most certainly does, we are animals, after all.

It is the cause of most strife today, actually.

thanks!
i agree to an extent but when 10 nerds can beat a jock, the alpha male is over.

unless we give them the power. in this day and age, they are called politicians! lol.

it still doesn't explain why we are so "blood thirsty".

against all "nature". even ebola and the plague have their limits. they will die out eventually.

actually we found ways to kill them off or suppress them.

i'm trying to explore, without religion, why aliens would mess with us and not be buddies.

reply to post by fooks


Let me ask you this.

Why do humans go to war?

Simple. Control of resources. No matter what the STATED reasons are, this is the main, underlying reason for war. Even religious wars are really just justifications for the REAL goal.

Now, if a civilization had the capability of interstellar travel, what resources would they need to compete for? NOTHING. They could easily get whatever resource they wanted, from uninhabited locations. If biologic, then they could breed such things on entire terra-formed worlds, etc.

So, without OUR main reason for war, would they even consider the idea of warfare? After a few centuries, would the concept even be recognizable to them? I wonder.....

reply to post by Gazrok



well, we don't know if that is true.

there could be a malevolent space faring species that's hell bent on taking over everything.

like space americans! lol, j/k!

there is the circle of life, hakuna matata!

an aggressive young species against an older mature species. same as on your own corner.

we haven't got out of the crib yet!

i wouldn't be surprised if this was the natural order but find it difficult to not think we are not being groomed

for something nasty.

ya we kill for a new pair of nike's or just coz the 3yo wet his pants. behead wifes, yaddah etc.

like gladiator training because other life on this planet is not like this.

i don't think chimps kill for bananas, territory, ok. we kill for nothing, as individuals.

reply to post by fooks


Even in your examples...it's resources.

Whether the resources are a pair of Nikes (the gang member), or ownership of mating females (the chimp), or more money (America), the basic motivation is the same.

Violence (such as the baby example), is different than war. War is a calculated act with a desired result and outcome, etc. Violence is just an emotional reaction. The two are quite different, and have different motivators.

Of course, they (the aliens) may not have human motivations either. It is a distinct possibility, so I will concede that yes, anything is possible. Just that logically, it would seem unlikely that a spacefaring race would want war. It'd be counter-productive.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by fooks

 

Even in your examples...it's resources.

Whether the resources are a pair of Nikes (the gang member), or ownership of mating females (the chimp), or more money (America), the basic motivation is the same.

Violence (such as the baby example), is different than war. War is a calculated act with a desired result and outcome, etc. Violence is just an emotional reaction. The two are quite different, and have different motivators.

Of course, they (the aliens) may not have human motivations either. It is a distinct possibility, so I will concede that yes, anything is possible. Just that logically, it would seem unlikely that a spacefaring race would want war. It'd be counter-productive.

counter productive to what?

we can't figure us out, let alone another intelligent, space faring, species.

we don't know what's out there and least of all, motivations.
i don't think we are cannon fodder for someone off world.

hopefully we are something that has a chance in hell!


yes but they would be beyond the personal possessive phase, hopefully.

Hard to imagine another intelligent species evolving without an aggressive component to their nature. Unless a species is stressed in the right amounts at the right times it either settles down in it's environmental niche or becomes extinct. It likely takes an environmental Goldilocks Zone and just dumb luck to evolve to our degree or beyond. In fact, there is fossil evidence of a hominid line that evolved in Africa with a larger brain capacity then that of (I think) even of present day humans. But for reasons unknown the line failed (died out). It is speculated that it simply thought too much and was unable to respond quickly/instictively to some environmental stress.

I wouldn't expect EBEs capable of traveling here not to be, or developed from, the top predator of their world of origin.

reply to post by fooks


Maybe those other life forms don't show themselves because they have seen what our people do when we discover a new frontier, we end up invading and destroying everything for our own needs; they fear that if they reveal themselves our next target would be them, and so we end up advancing technology in science and military weapons at an alarming rate because we have an actual goal, to invade and take over what is known as the "final frontier."

We are a very violent speices no doubt, but space itself is billions and billions of years old, our Earth isn't nearly as old and our galaxy, so there has to be life forms out there with technology way more advanced than ours them not knowing war is hard to believe, then again who knows.