ask a christian

reply to post by stuncrazy


Fair enough, if taken merely as a story one could argue it was poetic justice, and it definitely fits the barbaric eye for an eye morality of the Old Testament. However many Christians and some Jews believe this story literally happened and many of them still claim that God's actions were justified somehow. It works as fiction, but taken as truth it makes God out to be horrible especially when taken in context with the beliefs of Christianity that God is All Powerful and omnibenevolent.

Originally posted by Namaste1001
Okay, I have a question for you.

The bible teaches that the earth is somewhere around 6000 years old. Yet carbon dating can prove for example that the dinosaurs roamed the earth over 265 millions years ago.

Please explain.

The Bible does not teach that at all!
It has nothing to say about the age of the earth, and the 6000 year figure is supposed to have come about from an Irish bishop adding up all the genealogies and life-spans. But that's not actually IN the Bible!

This is a quote I found in the book by John Morton (NZ geologist and Christian.)


“Often a non-Christian understands things about the earth, the heavens and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances .. and this knowledge (he) holds with certainty from reason and experience..
It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.”
From The Literal Meaning of Genesis, St Augustine ca 403 AD.

Vicky

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by stuncrazy

 

but i actually find christians to be in the minority... let me emphasis real christians to be in the minority.

Nice, so we're not even two sentences in and you're committing a no true Scotsman fallacy.

Scriptural references eh? Alrighty then, how about this verse right here:

20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Source

Why is a supposedly Holy book giving tips on how hard people are allowed to beat their slaves?

That one's easy!
One, it's a product of the culture of its time, where slavery was normal.
Two, the quote you've used must be contrasted with the norms of the surrounding cultures, which did not punish 'owners' of slaves for anything, not even beating them to death.
It's like 'an eye for an eye', which was to be taken as amelioration of the law in surrounding cultures, which allowed taking two eyes for one, or other disproportionate acts of vengeance,
Vicky

Originally posted by galactictuan
Why the Church hate gay people?

That ain't nice.

Simple. It doesn't. (There's no one church, BTW)
Vicky

Originally posted by danielsil18

Please, don't tell me that being gay is a choice. Please get educated in that field because it's ignorance to say it's a choice.

Ask any sexologist about it if you want.

There are guys who are confused. Some find out they are not gay, others find out they are.

Tell me, can you choose to sleep with a man right now? you can't. You can't choose who you love.

edit on 17-2-2011 by danielsil18 because: grammar

Of course it's a choice. I have argued about this and put links (on other threads) but because I got flamed by a couple of people who just couldn't control their hatred, I am not gonna say anything more on the subject. And saying "can you choose to sleep with a man right now? you can't. You can't choose who you love." is an absurdity. Being straight is the norm, being gay is the deviation. Being straight doesn't need to be defended ir justified.
V.

Originally posted by Namaste1001
Okay, I have a question for you.

The bible teaches that the earth is somewhere around 6000 years old. Yet carbon dating can prove for example that the dinosaurs roamed the earth over 265 millions years ago.

Please explain.

Carbon dating doesnot show millions of years.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by latitude39

 

Atheism isn't necessarily a definite or rigid conclusion, I know my own atheism isn't. When presented with evidence of a god I would be forced to change my mind. Only Gnostic-Atheists claim to KNOW for certain there is no God, and there are very few Gnostic-Atheists. I do agree that to make a blanket statement that there absolutely is or isn't a God would be absurd given what we have yet to learn and given the size of the Universe. However there is no good evidence in favor of a god, so the default skeptical position is disbelief, not rigid absolute disbelief though.

So your a fence sitter? Also you should stop quoting the Old Testament as much, when referring to christians as they follow the teachings of the New Testament.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


You've also not acknowledged how we're supposed to take the flood story seriously. There's no geologic evidence,

Funnily enough, there is actually... of a flood that was not worldwide, but did cover the whole Middle East and the Mediterranean.
That being said, my faith doesn't stand or fall on something that I believe doesn't need to be taken literally.
Youse guys (atheists) love to ignore the New Testament and attack like Rottweilers on the basis of the OT only.. whereas Stuncrazy has already explained why and how the OT has been superseded.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I have also asked many questions that really bothered me about the Bible. But instead of being only negative about it, i have done some research with the questions that really bothered me and i am still doing on my spare time when i got the chance . Granted, the Bible(Collections of books), has some really hard passages in it. But it´s worth it to investigate those issues. You will be amazed with the answers that you will find.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

It wasn't God who warned Pharaoh it was Moses who claimed to be speaking to God.

Yes. Moses followed and spake, the things God told him to speak. According to the story.

If I were the President of a nation and some sheep herder came to me demanding I fire my entire work force because a burning bush told him I would probably take the same course of action as Pharaoh and refuse.

Did Moses really said to Pharaoh, that a talking bush told me so??? No, Moses said to Pharaoh what God said:

4:22 And thou shalt say to Pharao, These things saith the Lord, Israel [is] my first-born.

4:23 And I said to thee, Send away my people, that they may serve me: now if thou wilt not send
them away, see, I will slay thy first-born son.

So now, would you still refuse letting them go??

In the end for some strange reason God decides to murder the innocent first born instead of those who are actually to blame (Pharaoh and Egyptian nobility).

There is no strange reason. God did what He said to do. See above.

11:5 And every first-born in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first-born of Pharao that sits on the throne, even to the first-born of the woman-servant that is by the mill, and to the first-born of all cattle.

It goes along with the bloodthirsty eye for an eye mentality of the Old testament God which I find offensive and also the sins of the Father passing onto the sons.

Offensive or not, the OT among other things,depicts also the mentality of the ancient societies. And it´s the way it is written. It´s quite crucial to understand that in my opinion.

While I have no issue with people who like the story itself as a literary work I find it disturbing when Christians defend such atrocious actions and claim that they actually happened.

I have no issue at all, discussing these matters. As you can see we are discussing. And no, i do not defend any atrocious actions, i am simply discussing and offering some answers instead of insults and negativity as many persons tend to do.

The answer I'd like to see from Christians is that God's actions are wrong and that the story is probably not true.

Well, to be honest Christianity was not present at the time of OT. But beside that fact, i do not think you will find any Christian judging the actions of God. But if the story it´s true or not, i think a Hebrew scholar may shed some light.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyway, as i said before if you truly interested, then it´s better to do your own research. And i am sure that you will find different answers than others. Thank you for your replies.

Peace

Originally posted by stuncrazy

Originally posted by nougat420
who died and made you jesus

edit on 17-2-2011 by nougat420 because: (no reason given)

umm.... Jesus

So then, you are Jesus/Lucifer incarnate. Is that what you are saying?
Jesus and Lucifer, One and the Same

And, if that is so, then who is the man who Here?

And, are you hear to damn us all to Hell, to save us from Hell, or to convert us all to your little cult? Do you come with a Sword in your mouth, like your book says? Will you rule with a hand of Iron, like your book says? Is your book the whole, complete truth, written by the hand of God himself, as some Christians have told me, or it is rather a collection of fables like Grimm's Fairy Tales?

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by stuncrazy

Originally posted by nougat420
who died and made you jesus

edit on 17-2-2011 by nougat420 because: (no reason given)

umm.... Jesus

So then, you are Jesus/Lucifer incarnate. Is that what you are saying?
Jesus and Lucifer, One and the Same

And, if that is so, then who is the man who Here?

And, are you hear to damn us all to Hell, to save us from Hell, or to convert us all to your little cult? Do you come with a Sword in your mouth, like your book says? Will you rule with a hand of Iron, like your book says? Is your book the whole, complete truth, written by the hand of God himself, as some Christians have told me, or it is rather a collection of fables like Grimm's Fairy Tales?

Hello,

Lucifer=Jesus?

I think it is correct in a topical way but you've left Satan out of the equation and just to be open to all ideas, Satan and Lucifer are two separate entities.

newprotestants.com...

I think the formula is similar to a Box or Cube. Within the Cube you have Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, Satan and Lucifer.

Lucifer occupies the Southern portion of the cube, Satan is in the North Jesus Christ is in the West and Christ Jesus in the East.. Something like that anyways...

A very in DEPTH view of the paradigm can be illustrated thus,




Reality is a cube ruled by the number 2 [truth is binary] and multiples thereof. For example when a candle burns, the TRUE heat;energy is invisible or dark, the information is the visible light. I'm not sure if this made much sense to anyone but there are plenty of highly intelligent folks on this board who can extract meaning from the containers.

Two verses in the bible to consider regarding Satan and Jesus Christ above:

Eze 32:4 Then will I leave thee upon the land, I will cast thee forth upon the open field, and will cause all the fowls of the heaven to remain upon thee, and I will fill the beasts of the whole earth with thee.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


Peace

reply to post by Vicky32


Mediterranean and Middle East = big ol' flood but not 'global' by any stretch. The story is pure myth based on local flood accounts, simple as that.

You should seem my "attack atheism" thread, I'm reopening my favorite 'Paul was an ignorant bigot' series of references. It starts with "Paul was an ignorant sexist".

Of course, the very concept of the teachings of Jesus, the infinite reward or punishment of finite action is simply absurd at its core.

One last thing, of course Christianity doesn't rest on the absurd claims of clear myth in the Old Testament. Those are merely the easiest places to point out to Biblical literalists why they are wrong in that specific position.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Mediterranean and Middle East = big ol' flood but not 'global' by any stretch. The story is pure myth based on local flood accounts, simple as that.



One last thing, of course Christianity doesn't rest on the absurd claims of clear myth in the Old Testament. Those are merely the easiest places to point out to Biblical literalists why they are wrong in that specific position.

edit on 18/2/11 by madnessinmysoul because: "One last thing...."

Not global? That's exactly what I said! Why are you claiming otherwise?
I am not a Biblical literalist, as you should have realised from my other posts...
Vicky

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Of course, the very concept of the teachings of Jesus, the infinite reward or punishment of finite action is simply absurd at its core.

1. We humans don't even sentence people for crimes based upon the time it takes to commit the crime. Why are you holding God to a standard we humans don't even do ourselves?

2. Eternity is not a linear time-line. Eternity is not a "long amount of time", it's outside the time domain. While the idea of forever makes for beautiful poetry it is actually bad physics. Time is a physical property, it varies with mass, acceleration and gravity.

Originally posted by Whateva69
reply to post by stuncrazy

 

OK what’s it mean if you witness a golden hand or hand of god appear above you.
And is it a common occurrence?

I have seen this, only feet, instead of hands. All gold, and really big, compared to human feet. another time I was astral traveling, and came onto a place where there were three gold beings, all like Kings they were, and everything gold, even their fingernails. They sat on thrones, and in front of them was like a shiny blackboard, semi circular, and on this was many little red, blue, and green lights. The "Kings" would send a message to these little black guys, who would then move the lights about on the screen. I was looking intently at all of this, trying to figure out what this was. Then the one nearest me turned and looked right sat me. I heard a loud voice say, in my head, "you do not belong here!" At that point, I was yanked back to my body, and suffered with psychic shock for several days.

Then there was another time, this time there were two of them, standing out from me 50 feet or so. Life size, all gold, and each demanding that I fall down and worship them, first one, then the other. I called to the Goddess, and this went away.

I have often thought of this, and it is my thought that these golden beings are Annunaki. It is also my thought that they are coming back here, and they are confused at what to do about us. I'm quite sure we human beings do not know what to do about them, either.

ask away

reply to post by Namaste1001

yep...science proves just about anything...religion is all he say she say...there is no solid evidence anywhere

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by stuncrazy

 

Genesis 1:

How could plants proceed the sun and the moon? How could bird life proceed land life?

Genesis 6-9:

How the hell is anyone supposed to take such a clearly false story seriously?

Ahh yes, which came first, the baby or the mother. We've got a mind of our own, if that makes you mad, boo hoo for you.

Originally posted by stuncrazy
alright so i saw all these threads bashing people for bashing atheism. most of em saying that most people don't understand people that don't believe in God, but i actually find christians to be in the minority... let me emphasis real christians to be in the minority.

so considering i've come to believe that what most "christians" call christianity is not christianity at all i would like people to ask me what the beef is with the moral and virtuous beliefs that are what true christianity stands for.

for this discussion i ask that you only provide scriptural reference to the problem that you are having with what the Bible teaches. i will be more than glad to accept any hateful remarks and untasteful responses. the only thing i ask for is respect and honesty.

with that being said, let the games begin!

Now that this thread has died down I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding the teachings in the bible that crop up in my mind from time to time that I feel I am not completely ignorant upon but would like these verses to be addressed and taken into consideration by someone other than myself, in other words, I'll be asking, "I'm not the only one seeing this, am I?". I agree with you on that many who call themselves Christians are not. I do not consider myself a Christian because some of my beliefs conflict with theirs but most especially because I am a sinner, though I haven't given up and will never give up my belief in God's existance nor my will to learn of Him and all that He teaches. We "believers" can all agree that we believe that God exists, for even demons believe in His existance and tremble. We believe that we need the Messiah. There are things Christians disagree on and we know it's important to know and understand the truth. It seems that many, like myself, aren't clear on what it means to be saved and how to go about getting saved. I'll try not to overwhelm you with questions, I will be providing scriptural reference to what the bible teaches, and I'll expect an answer, hopefully a logical, sensible, scriptural answer.
Here is question number one: Do you believe that a legitimate follower of Jesus can be a "slave to God" AND a "slave to sin" simultaneously?
I ask this because Paul, who seems to be quoted more often than Jesus amongst those who call themselves Christians, said this:
Romans 1:1 This letter is from Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle and sent out to preach his Good News.
Seven chapters later, here is what Paul says:
Romans 7:14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
If Paul was telling the truth in Romans 7:14, was he telling the truth in Romans 1:1?
I don't think so, what say you?

reply to post by Wonders

It seems that many, like myself, aren't clear on what it means to be saved and how to go about getting saved.

How? John 6:47 - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

And for assurance this is a great site that explains it better than I could. "Assurance of Salvation
Study By: J. Hampton Keathley, III"

Here.