A question for all the "2012" non-believers

Why weren't you attempting to disprove 2012 BEFORE the Y2K scare?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do assume that the Mayan Calendar was around before the year 2000.
If that is so, why weren't you voiceing your strong opinions against this before hand?

Answer: There seems to have been a global shift in conciousness that drove people to research ancient civilizations, and 2012 prophecy is part that has been uncovered.


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Let me also point out, 2012 prophecy is NOT ONLY based on the ending of the Mayan Calendar.

Sumerian Texts also talk about about 2012 as "Changing of the World, as we know it".
And, before you completely disregard teachings of Sumer, remember these writings encompass many stories that fill out our Chrisitan Bible.

Also, Hopi Indian prophecy points to 2012. Even though they do not believe the world will end, they say that people who are unable to adapt to change will be doomed.

So, along with the Mayan Calendar, that makes THREE prolifent societies that warn us about this day upcoming.

QUESTION: So, why do you blatantly disregard the only major date that all three of these ancient and wise civilizations warn us about?

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So, you want to discredit all of 2012 theory because of your own personal theory that the end of their calendar means NOTHING...........

I won't even point out how small minded of an idea this is. But, to refute this logic, lets look at the rest of the Calendar.

The Mayan Calendar is comprised of Three Distinct parts.

1. Tzolkin
2. Haab
3. Long Count

It is the ending of the long count in which people discredit all of 2012 theory.

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Fist is the Tzolkin, which is 260 days. So, does this calendar mean anything?
Mayan Shamans say that this 260 days is the gestation period of a Human.

This means the Tzolkin calendar counts the time from fertilization to birth, roughly.
So, the first calendar counts something distinct and important.

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Second is the Haab, which is 365 days. We all can see this means something.
The Haab tracks a full solar year, which is a full cycle of Solar Birth.

This means the Haab is what Mayan civilization depended on to determine when to plant, when to harvest, and many many other aspects of their life. They lived by the Haab.
So, both the first and second calendars are important and life saving........

But, of course (by your brilliant deductions) the third must count nothing, and be unimportant

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Third is the Long Count, which ends December 21, 2012 (by some people's calculations).

I contend that the Mayans thought this was a very important calendar.

Why would they have a third calendar that counted nothing?

I propose that this is gestation of the human species, perhaps a step that we take in our evolution.
Or, this is a time of great destruction and peril.

Is it pure coincidence that astral projectionists can not see past this date during meditation?

The Mayans never say that the world is going to end, but if there was not going to be a change, then why make such a long calendar and why do you make sure that generations to follow pay attention to your calendar?

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Or, its just easier to believe that everything means nothing, and you can stick your ostrich head back in its hole. That is easier after-all.

i believe the long count keeps track of our progression through the constellations, and starts over at the beginning 12 21 12

i would say that it's significant in that no human in 26,000 years has seen this happen

what amazing times we live in

e: i think these will be trying times...they will test our faith, minds and bodies...and those who are not

ready....................

I dont believe in it, because time, the calender, the dates are a totally modern invention. We're labeling things to fit our schedule and beliefs. And how do we know it officially ends, we weren't there back then so we just speculate and guess and assume.

Plus if something does happen globally especially a disaster what can a person do you aren't going to escape it, and if you luckily managed to would you really want to? The world isn't going to be how you remember it, it's going to be harder harsher, start all the way back over. Not to talk about man made dangers that seep out from it radiation chemicals. Just relax sit back and enjoy the ride, we'll all end up at the end of the race eventually.

reply to post by Jedite


their long count calendar ends when the sun is aligned with the galactic plane.....it just so happens that that event coincides with a date on our calendar.....what are the odds

The Mayan Calender actually ended in 2009, people just "revised it" to end in 2012. But good luck finding an original translation of the Mayan Calender.

Sadly I have nothing I can contribute. I am a believer something just might happen in 2012 though, and I would like more posts on this thread to see everyone's ideas, so star and flag for you.

the only reason people never talked about it before i guess is cause the popularity of it rose. i don't know what to believe. no one does really. even if you say you believe it, you dont know for sure. believe = belief. i guess thats how you spell it. no one knows but god or the mayans. hell, maybe they just ran out of space or something.

reply to post by BadBoYeed


Very good actually, considering we've cannibalized lots of things from other civilizations. Holidays, Religions, Gods, etc etc... Even a lot of people with Mayan ancestry say we're interpreting the calendar wrong.

The Mayan Calendar, especially the Long Count, is cyclical.

This means that after it ends, it begins again.

This "cycle" belief was a large part of Mayan Beliefs.

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They believed that our World was destroyed four times in the past.

The date on which they say the last world was destroyed and the current world was formed was August 11, 3114 BCE.

This date was at the last completion of 13 baktuns. The next 13 baktun completion cycle is the 2012 date.

Even though they do not say it is upon this completion of the 13th baktun that our world will end, and another will begin, does it take much logic to look at their past cycles and infer that they thought the same would happen?

If said events happened on the 13th baktun last time, surely they would have believed that similar events would happen this time. Because, the Mayans believed that even all of the days that we go through are cycles of past baktuns repeated over and over; this was the core of their cyclical beliefs.

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Here is a better description of Mayan Cyclical beliefs:

Quote from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_calendar"

This conceptual view, in which the "cyclical nature" of time is highlighted, was a pre-eminent one, and many rituals were concerned with the completion and re-occurrences of various cycles. As the particular calendric configurations were once again repeated, so too were the "supernatural" influences with which they were associated. Thus it was held that particular calendar configurations had a specific "character" to them, which would influence events on days exhibiting that configuration. Divinations could then be made from the auguries associated with a certain configuration, since events taking place on some future date would be subject to the same influences as its corresponding previous cycle dates. Events and ceremonies would be timed to coincide with auspicious dates, and avoid inauspicious ones.[7]

How many times can the world supposedly end?

Oh no just realised my calendar end on the 31st of December 2011 s&!@ I think we are all going to die on that date ! I best go start a new thread quickly before anybody else realises this

Originally posted by Jedite
I dont believe in it, because time, the calender, the dates are a totally modern invention.

So, time, calendar and dates are totally modern?



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The Julian Calendar was evented 46 years Before Christs Existence.

The Hindu Calendar derived from books written approximately 100 years BCE.

The Gregorian Calendar (current calendar) was invented in 1582

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Perhaps 2050 year old calendars are a "totally modern invention" in your mind, but in my this says "ancient knowledge"

I won't even point out that the Mayan calendar was created approximately 2800 years ago, 1800 BCE, because surely this date is "modern" also.

If the mayans were so clever where are they now?

Originally posted by SooperFadeaway
The Mayan Calender actually ended in 2009, people just "revised it" to end in 2012. But good luck finding an original translation of the Mayan Calender.

I have heard several different calculations of the end of the Mayan Calendar.

One person I default my knowledge to, is the wise "Ian Lungold"

Here is an advanced video in which he details the progression of time, and what can be expected along our path to enlightenment.

This video is 15 parts long, if you can sit through them all, I think you will enjoy them.

Note: This is my FAVORITE 2012 video to date. Ian Lungold has a uniquely positive view of 2012 and our ascension, and he cites many things to look forward to. Please give him a chance. When he starts comparing current day events with what they Mayan Calendar said would happen, its very eerie.

Sadly, Ian is no longer with us ...... He passed away in 2005.

Originally posted by zak89
the only reason people never talked about it before i guess is cause the popularity of it rose..

I think it also become politically acceptable to talk about these things, where it was taboo in the past.

Also, there has been alot more people interested in these topics because of the mass numbers of shows on cable tv channels like History Channel, and Discovery Channel.

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce

Originally posted by Jedite
I dont believe in it, because time, the calender, the dates are a totally modern invention.

So, time, calendar and dates are totally modern?



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The Julian Calendar was evented 46 years Before Christs Existence.

The Hindu Calendar derived from books written approximately 100 years BCE.

The Gregorian Calendar (current calendar) was invented in 1582

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Perhaps 2050 year old calendars are a "totally modern invention" in your mind, but in my this says "ancient knowledge"

I won't even point out that the Mayan calendar was created approximately 2800 years ago, 1800 BCE, because surely this date is "modern" also.

The Gregorian Calendar (current calendar) was invented in 1582.

Being that's the one we follow yes fairly modern. So we retrospect our perspective back onto others, just like we wrongly assume that, surely the ancient's couldn't be as smart as us or as advanced as us. I'm just saying we dont know if it ends, if it repeats, if anything happens.

I know people will believe what they want to believe no matter how much proof or non-proof is brought to the table. So why not just let them believe it? Who really cares if people think the world is going to end, or we're going to ascend or some great change will come. Like I said before, we'll all get to the end of the race eventually one way or another.

Originally posted by simples
How many times can the world supposedly end?

Are you saying that there NEVER has been any mass extinctions on this planet,
or are you saying that we could never be affected by these,

Just as the dinosaurs never died, and the holocaust never happened?

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce

Why weren't you attempting to disprove 2012 BEFORE the Y2K scare?

Why would I try to disprove something no one is actually attempting to prove?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do assume that the Mayan Calendar was around before the year 2000.
If that is so, why weren't you voiceing your strong opinions against this before hand?

Answer: There seems to have been a global shift in conciousness that drove people to research ancient civilizations, and 2012 prophecy is part that has been uncovered.

My theory? It's because after Y2K failed to destroy the world, all the chicken littles that need there to be a doomsday crisis over the horizon latched onto this 2012 business. And when 2013 rolls around, I'm sure they're going to find another near-future date for the "big one," and will panic accordingly

And, before you completely disregard teachings of Sumer, remember these writings encompass many stories that fill out our Chrisitan Bible.

And this is supposed to lend credibility?

Also, Hopi Indian prophecy points to 2012. Even though they do not believe the world will end, they say that people who are unable to adapt to change will be doomed.

A prophecy made in the 1960's, and published into books, to capitalize on the starry-eyed hippies who thought that if an Indian says it, it must be true. Truth is, we just like pranking white people, and if you can make a buck off of it, what the heck, right?

So, along with the Mayan Calendar, that makes THREE prolifent societies that warn us about this day upcoming.

Prolifent? What's that mean? Are you combining "prolific" with "proficient"? And, well, not to dis the Hopi, but I'd hardly put them on the same scale as the Sumerians or Maya.

QUESTION: So, why do you blatantly disregard the only major date that all three of these ancient and wise civilizations warn us about?

Because so far only the Maya mention that date (Sitchen does not count as Sumerian research, and I just explained hte Hiopi thing) and they don't give any "warnings." Unless it's like the calendar you can buy at the store that tells you "End of the year, buy a new calendar"

So, you want to discredit all of 2012 theory because of your own personal theory that the end of their calendar means NOTHING...........

It means it's time to get a new calendar. Doesn't sound that dramatic, but have you seen these things? They're big handcarved rocks. And the math involved! Getting a new Mayan calendar will be a lot of work!

I won't even point out how small minded of an idea this is. But, to refute this logic, lets look at the rest of the Calendar.

Not believing in something that has no evidence isn't small-minded. It's "intelligence."

The Mayan Calendar is comprised of Three Distinct parts.

1. Tzolkin
2. Haab
3. Long Count

It is the ending of the long count in which people discredit all of 2012 theory.

"Theory" has an actual scientific meaning. The word you want is "guess."

Fist is the Tzolkin, which is 260 days. So, does this calendar mean anything?
Mayan Shamans say that this 260 days is the gestation period of a Human.

This means the Tzolkin calendar counts the time from fertilization to birth, roughly.
So, the first calendar counts something distinct and important.

Distinct, yes (and it does so inaccurately, since it's ten days off a full nine-month gestation, and actual gestation length varies from pregnancy to pregnancy). Important? I dunno, it's just counting days that someone is pregnant. Meaningful from the religious perspective of the Maya? Sure, but not world-shattering.

Second is the Haab, which is 365 days. We all can see this means something.
The Haab tracks a full solar year, which is a full cycle of Solar Birth.

This means the Haab is what Mayan civilization depended on to determine when to plant, when to harvest, and many many other aspects of their life. They lived by the Haab.
So, both the first and second calendars are important and life saving........

Well, the sun doesn't go out at the end of the Haab, does it?

But, of course (by your brilliant deductions) the third must count nothing, and be unimportant

It's a measurement of how long it takes to get from point A to point A again. Just as the other two do.

Third is the Long Count, which ends December 21, 2012 (by some people's calculations).

By some people's calculations is the catch, there. Namely the "some."

I contend that the Mayans thought this was a very important calendar.

They also thought that building towns around arsenic-laced water holes prone to cave-ins was a good idea. I mean c'mon, if you can see the future, you could at least understand the notion of toxic metals, or good urban planning, right?

Why would they have a third calendar that counted nothing?

Why do we have a month that only has 28 (sometimes 29) days? Leap years must be a period of significant importance, right? Nah. It's just because of how the math works out.

I propose that this is gestation of the human species, perhaps a step that we take in our evolution.
Or, this is a time of great destruction and peril.

Evolution doesn't work that way.
I propose that when 2013 rolls around, we get a new rock slab and start carving. Bring your abacus, you'll need it.

Is it pure coincidence that astral projectionists can not see past this date during meditation?

2012 is also the year unicorns go extinct, ZOMG!

The Mayans never say that the world is going to end, but if there was not going to be a change, then why make such a long calendar and why do you make sure that generations to follow pay attention to your calendar?

Because that's the way the math worked out. I'm sure if someone had the patience, they could have devised a Longer Count calendar, too, just by following the cyclical math already present. I mean hey, if you had just invented the concept of zero, wouldn't you want to take it our for a spin?

As for making sure future generations pay attention... Did you ever have to sit through your grandparents telling you a long, rambling story about "when I was your age?" Yeah, it was important to them, so they're like, it's important to you, too, so listen up sonny.

That said, the Maya actually lost knowledge of this calender system not too long after the priesthood collapsed.

Or, its just easier to believe that everything means nothing, and you can stick your ostrich head back in its hole. That is easier after-all.

Well, here's the thing.

If Kulkulkan is going to show up in 2012 and remake the universe, I kind of doubt there's anything I can do about it one way or another. If it's true, then he's going to do it whether I believe or not, right? Believing in it does me no good, since I can't really stop a Mayan creator deity.

However, if it's NOT true, then I can either spend the remaining two years worrying about something that won't happen and feel really dumb when 2013 comes around. or I can spend the remaining to years just doing what I would have done anyway.

It's kind of Pascal's Wager in reverse. it's more of a benefit to not bother, since if it's true, I lose nothing by not bothering, and if it's false, i lose by bothering. See?

Originally posted by Jedite
The Gregorian Calendar (current calendar) was invented in 1582.

Being that's the one we follow yes fairly modern.

The Gregorian Calendar was just a reprinting of the Julian Calendar to better deal with the inaccuracy of the Julian Calendar. So, the Gregorian is just a regurgitation of a calendar from 45 BC.

And, the tweaks on the Gregorian Calendar still weren't perfect, hence why we have the leap year.

I still fail to follow your "Calendars are modern" assertion.

reply to post by simples


They're mostly in Tabasco and Chiapas, with significant populations in Yucatan, Campeche, Quintana Roo, the Cayo and Toledo districts of Belieze, and Western Guatemala (especially the departments of Baja Verapaz, Quiché, Totonicapan, Huehuetenango, Quetzaltenango, and San Marcos)

They're not cranking out pyramids anymore, but they're still there

well if one of the things means how long it is for birth. and the days of the year, why dosent the last one mean something in relation to those. our calender ends why not think that their calender ends at something as well. how did people portray it as being the end of the world