What is Freedom?

What is or isnt freedom? I hear a lot of talk about freedom but most seem to disagree about just what it is

I would say at the least basic freedom would include

The right to Speak your mind
The right to defend yourself
The right to travel freely
The right to conduct business. buy/sell/trade freely
The right to own property
The right to worship or not your deity of choice

Most of these are covered in the Constitution though their meanings have been blured by the government

Freedom Isnt

The right to free anything...........food, money, medical care..........pretty much anything
The right to not be offended by others
The right to take from others by force whither its armed robbery or taxes



I will add more to both probably, but would like to hear from others about just how they deffine freedom

Everyone has the right to Say what they want and everyone has also the right to Ignore it.

Example, a man could say that he hates a certain creed livining in his country, the creed mentioned has the right to ignore said statement as everyone has the right to an opinion.

I see this above any other freedom being quickly squashed, no longer can yous ay anything without being labelled as anti this or anti that, sickens me. PC gone too far? I think so.

But hey at least if you fight for your freedoms you get more taken away and then deemed a terrorist, why cant people see through the lies.

"If we don't believe in free expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all" Noam Chomsky

Not sure freedom should be described as rights, freedom is deeper than that.

We have the "right" to do something but we should have the "freedom" to do that without prejudice, persecution etc.

But that's just my point of view.

freedom is never having to say you're sorry

Originally posted by lastrebel
What is or isnt freedom? I hear a lot of talk about freedom but most seem to disagree about just what it is

I would say at the least basic freedom would include

The right to Speak your mind
The right to defend yourself
The right to travel freely
The right to conduct business. buy/sell/trade freely
The right to own property
The right to worship or not your deity of choice

Most of these are covered in the Constitution though their meanings have been blured by the government

Freedom Isnt

The right to free anything...........food, money, medical care..........pretty much anything
The right to not be offended by others
The right to take from others by force whither its armed robbery or taxes



I will add more to both probably, but would like to hear from others about just how they deffine freedom

I would summarise freedom as such: Anything you can do with your body that doesn't harm another intentionally or interfere with their freedom.

With such definition, I would have to disagree that one can "own" anything other than their thoughts. One can use, but owning is not a freedom, but a right that others have extended to you by their consent.

To have ownership, one needs laws to protect and record ownership. To have these laws requires government. To have a government, someone must be oppressed. There is no government who protects absolute freedom for all. All governments are established to manage property rights first, settle disputes second, and collect fees through fines and taxes to manage this protection network. This includes raising armies and going to war to claim more property. To collect these fees through fines, laws are enacted which limits freedom. They start with freedoms the majority agree to. As one behavior dies out, they strip more freedoms.



With Love,

Your Brother

Private property ownership, especially real estate, is incompatible with freedom.
Most don't understand that, but it is true.

Originally posted by Stewie
Private property ownership, especially real estate, is incompatible with freedom.
Most don't understand that, but it is true.

I guess I fall into the not understanding group

Could you explain this

Originally posted by lastrebel

I guess I fall into the not understanding group

Could you explain this

To have ownership, one needs laws to protect and record ownership. To have these laws requires government. To have a government, someone must be oppressed. There is no government who protects absolute freedom for all. All governments are established to manage property rights first, settle disputes second, and collect fees through fines and taxes to manage this protection network. This includes raising armies and going to war to claim more property. To collect these fees through fines, laws are enacted which limits freedom. They start with freedoms the majority agree to. As one behavior dies out, they strip more freedoms.

What don't you understand my friend?

What do you own and how do I know?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by lastrebel

Okay.
In a truly free society, you and I could walk a river bank and compete for some fish to eat. Or, stalk a deer for food. But, we cannot if someone holds ownership to the property. Whether the property was bought or stolen doesn't really matter, our freedoms are thus restricted.
Imagine being brought into the world, and you are told that the entire earth is off limits, it is private property controlled by a few families. This in not a huge stretch of the imagination.
Now, to survive, you become dependent upon the owners of this real estate. How free are you?

reply to post by IAMIAM


The only thing I own is my Harley, dont really want anything else. The reason you would know is because of the title, which is issued at the sale, yes the government is involved, but it doesnt have to be. The title comes from the company, the government requires you to register it...........which IMO is unneeded.

How would me not owning that Harley harm annothers freedom

reply to post by Stewie


So would they be free to walk into your house and help themselves to whatever they wanted too?

reply to post by lastrebel

No, of course not.
The subject is "what is freedom", and I mostly agree with you on your definition. I just wanted to point out the problem with property ownership. Originally, it was taken by force from somebody (the "control of the property) whom never owned it to begin with (and probably understood that you CAN'T). That may not make sense until you really give it some thought, but it is true.
As to your Harley, that is entirely a different matter. The free exchange of goods and services I agree with.

And to take it one step further, you cannot own a living breathing creature of nature. You may think you do. You may have the power to confine it, and it may love its confinement and agree to the terms.
Or not.
You may kill and eat it, but that is not owning it. It may kill and eat you, and it never owned you.
Inanimate objects... fashioned, forged, molded, cast, assembled, painted, woven, or otherwise constructed by the hands of man(kind), different story. You have ownership rights until it becomes part of the earth once again.

"Freedom's just another word,
For nothing left to lose,"
- Kris Kristopherson

I couldn't resist.

Originally posted by indianajoe77
"Freedom's just another word,
For nothing left to lose,"
- Kris Kristopherson

I couldn't resist.

Janis Joplin did it first and did it better

Originally posted by lastrebel

Originally posted by indianajoe77
"Freedom's just another word,
For nothing left to lose,"
- Kris Kristopherson

I couldn't resist.

Janis Joplin did it first and did it better

edit on 19-1-2011 by lastrebel because: spelling

she did - but Kris wrote the song she sang. and for all you Icke fans, Kristopherson is of the reptilian variety.

reply to post by lastrebel


No, Kris Kristopherson wrote and recorded the song. The Big Brother and the Holding company version is a cover.

Originally posted by lastrebel
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

The only thing I own is my Harley, dont really want anything else. The reason you would know is because of the title, which is issued at the sale, yes the government is involved, but it doesnt have to be. The title comes from the company, the government requires you to register it...........which IMO is unneeded.

How would me not owning that Harley harm anothers freedom

What would happen if I needed your Harley and decided to make use of it since it was parked and not in use?

I am not being confrontational, I am merely exploring the process of ownership and freedom. If you'll oblige me, we will learn something from each other.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by indianajoe77


en.wikipedia.org...

We were both wrong, Kris wrote it, Rogar Miller first sung it in 69 then Gorden Lightfoot in 70 and janis recorded it a few days before her death in 70

reply to post by IAMIAM


I hate to say this but I would shoot ANYONE trying to steal my bike............or even borrow it without my knowledge...........i would share my girlfriend before i would share my bike

Its a heavily customised Chopper so all the bikers around here know it which would make real hard for someone to take it.

I would be happy to take you were ever you needed to go though