It is scientifically impossible that a plane hit the Pentagon on 9/11

reply to post by kaya82


Shouting it didn't doesn't make it fact!

TJ

reply to post by youngdrodeau


You are also totally ignoring the eyewitness accounts of seeing remains of the tail section at the Pentagon. Once again, just because images haven't appeared then it doesn't mean that they don't exist.

"Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane. ''There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail

www.911myths.com...

An engineer called into the investigation. "I held in my hand the tail section of the plane"

911research.wtc7.net...

TJ

reply to post by tommyjo

Was the tail section inside the Pentagon?

reply to post by tommyjo


Yes of course I'm ignoring what was said,because it doesn't match what I see.You can't tell me about all the pieces of tail you saw when I'm looking at pictures that show nothing of the sort.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by Remedylane

 

They could have landed the plane at a military base and shipped the people off to nightmare hall at dulce or something theres no way to know anything possible.

Just stop thinking about the people on the plane for 1 minute please.

And look at the actual wreckage on the day of the attack.

The debris field does not match a mid sized jet airliner. It matches something much smaller, about 1/4th the size.

This is pure common sense. Just look at the photographs and examine them. Look closely.

You have to consider that the size of a "normal" debris field is that of a plane crashing into the ground, and maintaining forward momentum as various pieces fall of, as opposed to a plane slamming on a reinforced concrete fortress, One would expect the size of the debris field to be quite compact if the plane crashes against something more solid where its forward momentum goes to zero within just a few hundred yards of travel.

-rrr

Originally posted by ATH911
reply to post by tommyjo

 

Was the tail section inside the Pentagon?

T. Carter (American Airlines Flight Attendant) stated that the tail was on the grass.

911blogger.com...

T. CARTER, flight attendant, was scheduled to fly on her regular flight, AA 77, on Sept. 11, 2001, but she instead opted out of duty that day, and her friend and fellow flight attendant, Rene, took the plane, replacing her.

Rene boarded AA 77 in Washington DC and on this regularly scheduled route, proceeded to Dallas. Over Ohio, Rene called her mother on her cell phone and told her to call American Airlines Operations and report that the plane had been hijacked. Rene said there were 6 hijackers. Press releases since then have only reported 5 hijackers, but that is a separate subject due to its size and scope. There were no sounds of struggle when Rene phoned her mother and Rene did not call her again.

In an affidavit, T. Carter states that she went to the crash site within 48 hours after the 757 hit the Pentagon, with her mother, to give support to the crews retrieving bodies and wreckage. Her visit could have been late in the day Sept. 11, or on Sept. 12. At the pentagon, she recognized the tail section of AA 77 that she had flown on many times, as she walked past it. The tail was on the grass, near the crash site. She went inside the pentagon and saw other parts of this plane that she knew from her work. She saw many charred bones of people, among the luggage. She saw more parts of the plane inside the pentagon, and recognized them as parts of the plane that she used to fly on.

T. Carter was shown photographs, a few days later, of the crash scene, and identified the bracelet she had given her friend Rene, for her birthday, on the charred arm bones of her friend. T. Carter has no doubts that Flight 77 crashed into the pentagon on Sept. 11th.

TJ

Here's proof of the hole size!

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by rickyrrr


The ground is solid too.This is Earth we're talkin about.Earth is pretty solid.Especially pavement,which planes crash into all the time,so....

Also,why does everyone keeping putting emphasis on the fact that it was REINFORCED CONCRETE.Ok.And we're talkin about a REINFORCED AIRPLANE.Its made of METAL.Steel,titanium,aluminum.

reply to post by tommyjo


Wow.Touching story.Too bad it doesn't prove there were pieces of the tail section.Its easy to make a story.But where is the photographic evidence?I've got pictures to prove there wasn't a tail section.Where's the pictures to prove there was?I don't wanna see paperwork.I wanna see plane wreckage.

reply to post by youngdrodeau


I may be mistaken but aluminum melts around 2000 degrees F and steel melts at about 2500 degrees. Of course this all depends on the quality of both alloys. As far as a metal vaporizing, it does so through smoke. However not in the meaning being used. When you cut metal with a torch, it leaves slag. Very little metal actually becomes vapor. What does though are the impurities. Matter can not be destroyed, only changed. Jet fuel can probably melt some metals depending on how much O2 you mix with it and force it to burn through with pressure. I believe someone mentioned afterburn on a jet. What I am saying is, for a plane to disappear in a short amount of time, it would take more heat than just jet fuel can provide.

I just don't see how a large passenger plane hit the pentagon. The approach vector is all wrong for a plane of its size. A plane could not come in at such a short height and not hit the ground first. Even considering the speed it would take a long distance to even attempt such a low flight. Not only that, the op mentioned the tail being large. You also have to consider the wing span and the engines. Not saying that it didn't happen, just saying it does not make sense

reply to post by youngdrodeau


You are looking at the same images as everybody else. The debris field is there. What you are expecting is a huge great Boeing 757 tail to be sitting on the grass as per the images that you posted earlier. T. Carter recognised part of the tail section on the grass. She flew on them day in and day out. It was obviously an instantly recognisable piece for her to mention it. Was it the tip with the flag on it? Who knows. The engineer handled it. The Congress woman saw it. Are they all lying?

This is the tail of the 757 in question, serial N644AA.

www.airliners.net...

Link to image of N644AA taking off, August 2001.

www.airliners.net...

TJ

Originally posted by Remedylane

Originally posted by hthjason
Check out:

www.youtube.com...

and see how you feel. It's a very strong argument that adds to yours.

One question?

Where are the passengers of that flight?

Jason

Here is the passenger list. These people died. You can pick just about any of the names and google it with 9-11 and find their funeral home guest books, or something the family set up. Now, did their plane crash into the Pentagon?? I dont know.. But it crashed somewhere. I dont believe we have the full truth about 9-11.. Never will.. But these arent made up people.

American Airlines Flight 77: A Boeing 757 en route from Dulles Airport near Washington to Los Angeles. The plane was carrying 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots. It crashed into the Pentagon about 9:40 a.m.

Crew:

* Charles Burlingame, 51, Va., captain
* David Charlebois, Washington, D.C., first officer
* Michele Heidenberger, 57, Chevy Chase, Md., flight attendant
* Jennifer Lewis, 38, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant
* Kenneth Lewis, 49, Culpeper, Va., flight attendant
* Renee May, 39, Baltimore, flight attendant

Passengers:

* Paul Ambrose, 32, physician
* Yeneneh Betru, 35, Burbank, Calif., director of medical affairs, IPC
* MJ Booth
* Bernard Brown, 11, student, Leckie Elementary School (Washington)
* Suzanne Calley, 42, San Martin, Calif., Cisco Systems Inc.
* William E. Caswell, 54, Silver Spring, Md., physicist, U.S. Navy
* Sarah Clark, 65, Columbia, Md., sixth-grade teacher, Backus Middle School (Washington)
* Zandra Cooper, Annandale, Va.
* Asia Cottom, 11, student, Backus Middle School (Washington)
* James Debeuneure, 58, Upper Marlboro, Md., fifth-grade teacher, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington)
* Rodney Dickens, 11, student, Ketcham Elementary School (Washington)
* Eddie Dillard
* Charles Droz, 52, Springfield, Va., vice president for software development, EM Solutions Inc.
* Barbara G. Edwards, 58, Las Vegas, Nev., teacher, Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas
* Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, University Park, Md., research director, ECOlogic Corp.
* Dana Falkenberg, 3, University Park, Md.
* Zoe Falkenberg, 8, University Park, Md.
* James Joe Ferguson, 39, Washington, D.C., educational outreach director, National Geographic Society
* Darlene ''Dee'' Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va.
* Wilson ''Bud'' Flagg, 63, Millwood, Va., retired Navy Admiral and pilot, American Airlines
* Richard P. Gabriel Sr., 54, Great Falls, Va., founder, Stratin Consulting
* Ian Gray, 55, Washington, D.C., healthcare consulting firm president
* Stanley Hall, 68, Rancho Palos Verdes, Calif.
* Bryan Jack, 48, Alexandria, Va., senior executive, Defense Department
* Steven D. ''Jake'' Jacoby, 43, Alexandria, Va., chief operating officer, Metrocall Inc.
* Ann Judge, 49, Great Falls, Va., travel officer manager, National Geographic Society
* Chandler Keller, 29, El Segundo, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co.
* Yvonne Kennedy
* Norma Khan, 45, Reston, Va., nonprofit organization manager,
* Karen A. Kincaid, 40, lawyer, Wiley Rein & Fielding in Washington
* Dong Lee, 48, Leesburg, Va., engineer, Boeing Co.
* Dora Menchaca, 45, Santa Monica, Calif., associate director of clinical research for biotech firm
* Christopher Newton, 38, Ashburn, Va., executive, WorkLife Benefits
* Barbara Olson, 45, TV commentator and lawyer
* Ruben Ornedo, 39, Los Angeles, Calif., propulsion engineer, Boeing Co.
* Robert Penniger, 63, Poway, Calif., electrical engineer, BAE Systems
* Robert R. Ploger III, 59, Annandale, Va., software architect, Lockheed Martin Corp.
* Lisa J. Raines, 42, Great Falls, Va., senior vice president, Genzyme Corp.
* Todd Reuben, 40, Potomac, Md., tax and business lawyer
* John Sammartino, 37, Annandale, Va., technical manager, XonTech Inc.
* Yang Shuyin, 61, Beijing, China
* Diane Simmons
* George Simmons
* Mari-Rae Sopper, 35, Santa Barbara, Calif., women's gymnastics coach, UC Santa Barbara
* Robert Speisman, 47, Irvington, N.Y., diamond industry salesman
* Norma Lang Steuerle, 54, Alexandria, Va.
* Hilda Taylor, sixth grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington
* Leonard Taylor, 44, Reston, Va., technical group manager, XonTech Inc.
* Sandra Teague, 31, physical therapist, Georgetown University Hospital
* Leslie A. Whittington, 45, University Park, Md., professor, Georgetown University
* John Yamnicky, 71, Waldorf, Md.
* Vicki Yancey, 44, Springfield, Va., Vredenburg
* Zheng Yuguang, 65, Beijing, China

I apologize if this may seem a bit off topic.
I can`t seem to disregard the fact of the professional nature of most of those passengers.
I know it sounds crazy but if there actually were some alternate theory and that flight with those passengers never actually crashed into the Pentagon, then it would seem plausible that they are all very worthy of being of a select few pf the population to be saved in the event of some future catstrophic global incident.
I know it sounds nuts to most folks and I in no way am implying that this is the case, just saying it`s a wild idea that could be possible. perhaps those people were needed in the preparation for the continuation of life should something huge be on the horizon.
I see many doctors, physical therapists, teachers, engineers, scientists, and corporate leaders and managers all to lead me to believe this flight list was stacked with brilliant individuals. How often is any given flight have such an unsual array of passengers in regard to them all being of superb professional status and the importance of their value to society?
God forgive me for wondering, as I`m sure their loved ones believe they are long gone and moved up to heaven, and that very well may be the case, as no one has really been able to prove anything otherwise, except that things just don`t make sense the way it is all officially explained.
I`m just throwing this crazy idea out there because I couldn`t help but notice the professional nature of most of these passengers.
What do you guys think about that???

reply to post by youngdrodeau


Are you actually reading the posts in the thread? Why do you think that every photograph of the wreckage has to be in the public domain? Yet again you are creating this vision of a huge tail part sitting on the lawn. As already pointed out it could have been a portion of the top of the tail fin with the flag, or even part of the fin carrying the logo? It was obviously something that T. Carter instantly recognises. By inferring that it is just a story you are also accusing her of lying. If you met her in person would you say that to her face?

There are also reports of part of the tail section with the registration number being found. The underground link to the Pentagon employee letter is dead. The reference can be found at the following.

www.rense.com...

TJ

Lets just all agree on the only un-contestable fact that have ever come out of the investigation. Godzilla is responsible for 9/11

that would explain away the tail section missing from all those photos. Although, theres no reason for the tail to be sitting on the pentagons front lawn after a plane collided with a building.

Not that i subscribe to any assumptions made about 9/11. For all we know, alien timetravelers from the past melted the pentagon with a big soldering iron.

Thats the beauty of this conspiracy, its like a big conspiracy theorist ad lib. You can make any moronic claim you feel like making based on the shreds of useless evidence and use the lack of evidence as a defense.

a perfectly twisted argument.

reply to post by youngdrodeau


Planes are real.

Planes can crash.

The Pentagon is real.

The Pentagon is not indestructable.

Fact: A plane could of and did hit the Pentagon.

reply to post by youngdrodeau


Assuming it didn't.

Where did the plane go that left the Airport. Where are the people on that Plane.
No other Plane was seen or reported to be crashed. Maybe David Coperfield knows.

Originally posted by TedHodgson
Its not impossible just because you dont belive it

You have some good points but no supporting evidence that backs your accussations

However it is IMPOSSIBLE that you have analyised all the evidence.

Im not saying your wrong, im saying you cant prove your right, Mainly because TPTB dont make it easy to obtain such evidence.

edit on 14/1/11 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)

The most awkward attempt at debunking/supporting someone's opinion I've ever seen. This is the kind of response that just blows me away on ATS. WTF did you just say? He's right, but he's wrong? The evidence is there but it's not easy to obtain?

He can prove he's right... it's right there in front of your face.

If Flight 77 did in fact hit the Pentagon, you think the wings would have done considerable more damge to the sides of the impact zone. i mean, the engines on these planes are nearly indestrucible, so going 500 mph, you think they would make more damage/be found in some form. just my thoughts, im no plane expert in any way.

Originally posted by Helmkat
reply to post by youngdrodeau

 

Planes are real.

Planes can crash.

The Pentagon is real.

The Pentagon is not indestructable.

Fact: A plane could of and did hit the Pentagon.

The Jared crap will become the norm here, and people like you will give ATS a bad name. Here's a little advice:

It's "HAVE", not "OF", and "indestructible". It's not difficult to look things up.

I'm not gonna get into the yelling match that is going on here.

BUT, i will say that it is a little odd to me that when watching the video that was captured right after the collision i couldn't see any parts that would lead me to believe a plane hit the building...forgive me i can't recall who captured the video.

So, either way i'd need convincing.

What's funny is that both sides of this argument LACK evidence...i mean shouldn't the OS have supporting evidence? Other then 1 video where you can't see a damn thing?

OH & There were witness interviews supporting both claims.