Why do Americans need guns? Rip UP the Second Amendment, problem solved.

reply to post by omega60


While I tend to agree with you on most your points wasnt it Bush and the Republicans that sit over one of the greatest loses of rights to americans in history.....the so called patriot act.........we need to get over the whole left right thing...its just a shell game to keep our eyes off the pea......losing our freedoms

Sorry, I have been sleeping and doing other, more productive, things so forgive me for not being able to give each and every one of you gun loving Americans an individual response.

I have noticed a few theme, one that’s rather offensive, is the notion that my fellow countrymen would be disgusted in some way at my views. Some of you think because you once saw “Brave heart” you have Scottish history and culture in the bag, and that as this history is violent and involves weapons my fellow countrymen would support the use of weapons and as such be shocked at my views. This is laughable, a few years ago we had a few cases of kids being shot with air rifles and after a public out-cry the government banned Air-rifles, it must be said that no one started ranting about brave heart. Also let’s not forget that took place hundreds of years ago at a time when the occupying forces, the English, really were tyrannical, a English officer had the right to rape a bride on her wedding night, entire villages were slaughtered as they slept. I don’t think that is happening or has ever happened in America so the comparison is not only offensive but inappropriate.

There have also been loads of people going on about crime in the UK, I never said there wasn’t any crime in the UK only that there was less gun crime. It’s also probably important to point out that the reasoning behind the massive increase is to do with the changes in the way crime is being recorded. A couple of kids having a fight in a play ground can be recorded as a crime, as such some of the statistics really should be taken with a pinch of salt. I feel very safe walking the streets at night and I am sure many other’s living in most parts of the UK would agree. One thing is for sure, I don’t really expect to get shot walking to the shops.

There is also some stuff people trying to manipulate my argument saying you should ban knifes, bats, crow bars and so on. The difference is, guns are deigned to kill, that is its primary role.

There have been a few good arguments on the pro-gun side, but very few. The most notable is the debate I had the other day with one of the moderation staff about how it was a natural right, and although I respectfully disagree (I don’t want to get into it again) I understand the argument and can sympathise with it as a reason for being “pro-gun”. The other arguments about self defence, I still find hard to accept for the reasons outlined in the OP, interestingly this is not a common reason given for being “pro-gun”.

The biggest reason you all have however for being “pro-gun” is that you have this strange idea that one day your government is going to through you all in FEMA camps or the Chinese are going to invade. We don’t live in the 1800’s anymore, and your government is not going to start chucking you all into FEMA camps just because you no longer have guns. That argument plays to the old wild west cowboy stereotype that some have of American mentality, your ranting like your living out your life in a John Wayne movie.

Another recurring topic is that I am a coward, can’t defend myself, a sheep, stupid, a “dumb brit” and otherwise ignorant. Why because I hold a different view on gun control, if I don’t have a gun I am a coward who can’t hold his own, the personal attacks say more about you than they do me. I might have some very controversial views that are not held by everyone on ATS but that does not make me right or wrong, just different to the rest of you, a bit of tolerance towards other people’s views without such hostility really would be nice.

Also what constitutes a “troll”, “trolling”, “troll thread” and “trolish behaviour”

Some people love collecting their firearms, some love to go hunting with them or target shoot, some keep them for defense.

But like said before, the 2nd is there to protect the 1st!

Now for your argument about crime....IT WONT STOP GUN CRIME! there are millions of firearms illegally on the streets and you will never be able to get them all off the streets, that's the weapon the thug uses, not the weapon bought in a store that can be traced back to him/her.

The addage goes; If guns were outlawed only outlaws would have guns.

An armed citizen is the worst nightmare of any would be robber or corrupt government.

reply to post by kevinunknown


Well again..You're in Scotland, things are different there.

We like our guns. We don't even NEED to give reasons why.
It is our right. It's not a suggestion, a privilege, or any kind of allowance subject to the whims of the preferences of those who care not to reserve these rights for themselves.

reply to post by projectvxn


It's not only the "Right to Bear Arms" that is at issue, it is also the mindset behind one's desire to own a gun that should be considered. This is an aspect of the issue that troubles non-Americans - which it seems many Americans fail to comprehend. Do you think your chances of being the victim of crime will increase the moment you decide not to keep a firearm in your home?

reply to post by Dark Ghost


The chances of someone invading your home because of a lack of weaponry is not concrete, what is concrete and shown through statistical analysis, is that not having the means to defend yourself in this situation increases your chances of being a victim. The act of breaking in may not be deterred. But what happens once the criminal is in the home is affected by whether or not you have the means to respond to a threat.

Dont own a gun, dont need a gun. Europe is a safe place to be. If I'd live in America I might see things differently.

""In the UK I know no one who owns a gun""

People in the UK have no right to their own lives.

They are easy picken's for criminals.

Besides firearms are old technology. We have new weapons coming online that will replace firearms.

reply to post by Skyfloating


There are vast cultural differences between the US and the European community. I think that falls on deaf ears more often than not. While I don't agree with gun control anywhere in the world, I certainly do understand that what is right for the US, or for me personally, is not necessarily right for someone else.

If I lived in Europe, who knows, I may not see a need to own a gun in Europe...But I would still like to because my weapons are fun to shoot. But I certainly wouldn't attempt to tell the Europeans how to deal with their distribution of armaments.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


They may indeed be increasing.
But they'd soar through the roof if they were more readily available I assure you.

And the types of crimes where guns are used tend to be criminals against criminals and not against the general public.

UK society is not a mirror image of US society; what's right and works for you isn't necessarily so over here, and vice versa.

Tear up the second amendment....If they were so wrong about the right to bear arms then they must have been wrong about the rest too huh?



Sure. Tear em all up. See where that gets you.

Oh, wait.
You're in Scotland.

No need to worry about it then is there?

It's just good old fashioned family values!!!

Now seriously, we for generations have been toting guns and it feels right. Not everyone can own a gun, only those who have not been proven to be incompetent to own one or who have broken the laws and are a supposed risk.

Most Americans who own guns are private about it, and never in their lives ever have to use it, but it's there if they ever did and that feels good to be able to defend your family from harm instead of sitting back and watching defenselessly as their families are murdered or worse.

Now we have more reasons than ever to own guns as we watch our rights dwindle due to Government incompetence and violations of our Constitutional Amendments.

It is really our duty, privilege and honor to carry and to be prepared to defend our Nation if ever the need arises.

The world would be amazed at how we could if need be defend ourselves because it is still legal to carry and own. If we had to wait for help from military and police it would become another Zimbabwe.

America may be down but we are not out. And I do not know a single person who has ever wanted to shoot even their worst enemy, or an intruder, but they would if they had to.

reply to post by Pervius


Who is going to tell "YOU" about what they have had passed down to them from generations if it is illegal to own? I BET many many own and keep guns they just keep it quiet and private.

reply to post by kevinunknown


I don't NEED a gun to hunt for food. I have a grocery store.
I don't NEED a gun for protection. I can use a knife.
I don't NEED a gun for sport. I can pick up a football.

But this isn't about NEEDS. This is about RIGHTS. And to start ripping up amendments simply because you've never held a gun in your hands, and felt the rush of adrenaline you get when firing one, is simply criminal, in my opinion.

I say why stop there? Let's rip up the 3rd amendment as well. That way, at any time, some marine or navy seal can come squat down in your home, without your permission, and do whatever he (or she) wants to.

Oh, and by the way, since he (or she) is a soldier, they have a gun. You don't. So you have set there and take it because you gave up your rights when you started shredding the constitution.

first of all technology is a two edged sword, it can help and it can harm. Guns aren't evil, since inanimate objects are not inherently moral, only people are good or evil.

Second, if a gunmen opens up on a crowd of children, if other people have guns the situation can be resolved, unlike now adays where if a man pulls out a gun the townspeople run around like scared little ninnies, why? Because they are unarmed.

Third, if guns were restricted only the criminals would have guns, making the people more unsafe. And let's say we ban all guns, how you gonna take them away from the people? By using men...with guns? Ha.

reply to post by kevinunknown

The ability to carry has saved my life, others and my property in the past 4 years alone. The first incident was simply myself walking back to my vehicle in the parking garage when two young guys started walking towards me with their hands in their pockets. One approached the passenger side door of the vehicle and I could see through both windows that he was holding on to something(most likely a knife because it was pointed but I never found out), and the other walked quickly around the front towards me. The man who went around the hood came within a couple steps of me and told me to give him the keys, whatever I had in the bags I was carrying as well as any money/jewelry etc. I simply flashed my M&P and the first guy slowly backed away then bolted with the other one following closely behind him. No need to even unholster it. The bags were filled with presents for the Holidays.

The second incident I was at a nearby convenient store at around 10pm. I was near the back trying to decide which beverage I wanted when I heard a man's voice say "empty out the f**cking register". I immediately knelt down, hid behind an aisle to sneak a peak and saw a masked man with a large knife at the counter and another masked individual watching the door holding a bat. I slowly made my way up the aisle, brandished my firearm, get as close as I could without being in view and stood up aiming it directly at the back of the man at the counter. The individual at the door with the bat immediately bolted which caused the other man to panic and turn around. I told him to drop the knife and beat it(not that nicely, trust me), and he ran for his life. I lowered my firearm, holstered it and called the cops. They took my statement and the owner was extremely pleased as apparently she'd been held up several times before in the past year. She now knows me by name and always gives me a free Arizona Peach Tea when I come in. Those are my fav!

So yeah... keep your demented thoughts to yourself. Why is it those who were never taught anything about guns like safety, how to shoot, upkeep etc... are so adamant on trying to take rightful gun owners firearms away?

reply to post by kevinunknown


To answer your question as simply as possible....So that the citizens of the US can renew its government by force if absolutely needed. "The tree of liberty should be renewed from time to time to protect people's freedom from oppression." As for semi and automatic weapons....you have to level the field of competition (government uses them). The law abiding American citizen does not threaten other citizens with their guns....The criminals do. They get their guns illegally and do not care how they get them and who they harm. As for being lucky enough to walk through a park and not get shot...I do not care where you live...if someone wants to kill you like that...they will find a way. This is just an American's opinion and not looking to say someone is right or wrong.

Americans really are stuck in a quandary. Having lived with guns for ever, they cannot imagine life without them.

You are having a hard time believing the rest of us are just fine without them, and hate them as much as you love them, but it is true. We find peace in knowing we don't have to fear someone with a gun, because they are rare. You find peace in knowing you don't have to fear someone with a gun, because you got one too and at least you are even.

Two different realities. Both are true even tho they are mutually exclusive.

The fact remains that not all people are conscientious, responsible or sane. The easier you make it for such persons to have a lethal weapon in their hands, the greater risk there is to society. I understand you are fine with that. We, in the rest of the world, prefer to limit that risk, knowing the kinds of people out there. Yes, we are left vulnerable to the odd one who manages to overcome the barriers and gets a weapon anyway, but they are indeed rare, and nothing to stay up at night worrying about.

Seems to me if you are going to have gun control, you have to be serious about it; otherwise, everyone indeed needs to have a weapon. Personally I am happy with the freedom I have from worrying about some idiot or criminal with a lethal weapon.

reply to post by BrawleR


While I agree with your statements and am solidly pro gun I must disagree with all that would shut the brits up. Only behind the right to bear arms is the right to free speech, while I disagree with most of what they say I defend their right to say it, even if some of them would take away my right to do the same

It's not about FEMA camps, it's about insurance from a corrupt government. Would the soviets have had an easy time killing so many people if they were armed? What about Pot Pol or Mao? You have to remember that the people who wrote such a thing realized an armed populace can resist an overbearing government.