Tax breaks for the rich create new jobs? How?

Originally posted by schuyler
By freeing up money to expand businesses instead of having it confiscated by the government for 'redistribution.' Bear in mind that this is my money that I earned by playing by all the rules. It's just a matter of whether the government takes it or not. Although I do not consider myself rich, you probably do, despite the fact that I live modestly. I don't drive a Lexus; I have a ten year old Chevy. I have almost enough money to expand my business into the next state over. I have eight trucks now and have a presence in every city of any size in my state. I would like to expand into the next state where I believe I could get five more trucks. I already provide jobs for fifteen people other than myself These are above minimum wage jobs, though not really ritzy ones. I work one of the trucks myself. I could probably hire up to 8 more people and carry them for six months hoping they would become profitable within that length of time. It's a big risk for me, but I've done this for awhile, and if my business plan is sound, it should work. That would "expand the economy," wouldn't it? On the other hand, if I spend this money and for some reason the business fails to take off, I could lose the entire business. It's not a sure thing.

But right now I don't know what this confiscatory government is going to do to me. The amount of extra taxes they say they want to take from me will make the difference in whether I can do this or not, whether I can afford to expand. My "gains" would still be modest, but I would be providing jobs for a few more people.


That's what socialism does to you. It saps your willingness to excel.

two stars my friend I see it with small business leaders I deal with 24/7 365 you have to worry about thousands of tax laws subject to the whim of idiots in govt. and the useful idiots following them. Thankyou for sticking it out to keep your business afloat .

reply to post by 46ACE


Apparently you've had a radically different experience, as an employee or business owner, than the one I lived through.

As a union longshoreman, working around the clock was just part of the job as the ships had schedules to meet and the loading/unloading process was usually expedited to accommodate them. During the rapid deployment stages of "Iraqi Freedom" I personally worked 24/7 for three and a half months supervising the hiring and placement of over 600 longshoremen per day. It nearly killed me. During that time we sent three fully loaded RO/RO vessels on their way to Iraq every 30 hrs. while simultaneously receiving inbound cargo by rail, truck and air from every military base involved in the rapid deployment.

As usual, the owners of the stevedoring companies employing our longshoremen went home every night, played golf twice a week and even had time to go to church on Sundays. Maybe all the stress wore them out so they needed the extra R & R.

You sound to me like someone who has never really had to "Work" for a living.

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Once again when has the tax cuts ever given jobs to Americans?

I want to see.

is that over the last 10 years our unemployment has fallen to unforeseen levels

I will remind you "conservatives" that Bush initiated the tax cuts as well as initiated the bailouts.

Democrat, Republican, all puppets for the bankers

Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person? No... me neither..

Good point, but let me ask, with the mass change in distribution of wealth where the rich keep getting richer and poor and medium class keep getting poorer, and the mass legislation that only helps big corp, how is it possible for people to have the chance to succeed and help the "poor" by starting new companies that will create new jobs?

Obviously the corporations and there rich owners, have enough money to buy legislation in there favor, so why don't they have enough to pay a little more to help those who work for them?

They don't, it's a myth perpetuated by the wealthy.

The only way that money they keep by not being taxed creates a job is if that job earns the creator yet more money. Pretty simple fact of economics. The creator would create that job regardless of taxation, as it would still create yet more money for him/her.

Jobs are created and destroyed for profit. No other reason.

Jobs are more likely to be destroyed because that creates profit for the owner (or investors in the case of a corporation) instantly, with no risk.

I hire John and pay him 50K a year, he has to produce 100K for me to make 50K.

I fire John, I keep that 50K no matter what John does. Screw John...

It's entirely cold and inhuman and that is one the issues that is degrading Western Society.

"Let me keep even MORE money, I promise I'll spread it around". Yea, right...

Trickle Down hasn't worked so far.. anyone up for another 30 years of failed policies that depend on illegal manipulation of the markets, degradation of employee rights, legislation to protect corporations from their own crimes and an ever increasing requirement for output while your wages fail to keep pace with inflation?

Good old capitalism.

Originally posted by thewholepicture

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Once again when has the tax cuts ever given jobs to Americans?

I want to see.

is that over the last 10 years our unemployment has fallen to unforeseen levels

I will remind you "conservatives" that Bush initiated the tax cuts as well as initiated the bailouts.

Democrat, Republican, all puppets for the bankers

Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person? No... me neither..

Good point, but let me ask, with the mass change in distribution of wealth where the rich keep getting richer and poor and medium class keep getting poorer, and the mass legislation that only helps big corp, how is it possible for people to have the chance to succeed and help the "poor" by starting new companies that will create new jobs?

Obviously the corporations and there rich owners, have enough money to buy legislation in there favor, so why don't they have enough to pay a little more to help those who work for them?

edit on 10-12-2010 by thewholepicture because: (no reason given)

We are on opposite sides of the planet here.Your thinking is as foreign to me as mine must be to you.
Who's call is its to say "they have enough" and use the force of govt to remove it from them.? Are they not u.s. citizens like me and you?
Did you eat today( I'd guess some folks didn't)? got electricity and a computer ?

You must have "enough".
Lets raise your tax rates so do-gooders can feel better...and just blow it on the"Dave Obey( Wi. d congressman ) expressway"

reply to post by 46ACE


The issue here is not whether to raise there taxes, it's whether to keep giving them the supposed "temporary" tax cuts Bush imposed to help stimulate the economy.

Has this worked?

If you say yes, PROVE IT!!

Originally posted by thewholepicture
reply to post by 46ACE

 

The issue here is not whether to raise there taxes, it's whether to keep giving them the supposed "temporary" tax cuts Bush imposed to help stimulate the economy.

Has this worked?

If you say yes, PROVE IT!!

I'm not an economist;I have no numbers: The economy is in the crapper but not because of 1% of the populatuion is paying slightly less in taxes. I disagree with your whole the premise.and your entitlement to those funds no matter who holds them.
YOU "PROVE": these rates caused a problem that could not be fixed by spending less.If you are resorting to caps we have reached an impasse.

tax breaks means more money for hookers and booze

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by 46ACE

 

Apparently you've had a radically different experience, as an employee or business owner, than the one I lived through.

As a union longshoreman, working around the clock was just part of the job as the ships had schedules to meet and the loading/unloading process was usually expedited to accommodate them. During the rapid deployment stages of "Iraqi Freedom" I personally worked 24/7 for three and a half months supervising the hiring and placement of over 600 longshoremen per day. It nearly killed me. During that time we sent three fully loaded RO/RO vessels on their way to Iraq every 30 hrs. while simultaneously receiving inbound cargo by rail, truck and air from every military base involved in the rapid deployment.

As usual, the owners of the stevedoring companies employing our longshoremen went home every night, played golf twice a week and even had time to go to church on Sundays. Maybe all the stress wore them out so they needed the extra R & R.

You sound to me like someone who has never really had to "Work" for a living.

24/7 for 3 months straight....b.s.& goodnight.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
When is the last time a poor person offered you employment?

Taxing the rich does not take away from their income, nor lower their standard of living as some would hope. Rather, it tends to take away from the amount they invest in companies, start-ups, expansions, etc. The last three items being job-creators. Obviously this is a generality and as always there are exceptions.

Does it help small businesses? No, not usually. But when faced with an unemployment rate of nearly ten percent -- we need people working. Whether it's as a customer service rep for a Fortune 500 or a stock boy for Wal-mart -- now is not the time to nitpick where these jobs are created, so long as we get people back to work.

Of course, expanding the Federal Government to create jobs is not the answer since it's the taxpayers that ultimately pay these salaries and in case you didn't hear -- we are already broke.

We need to put the money in the hands of those most likely to spend it. That would be the rich.

Edit to add: If you look at many of the arguments in favor of taxing the rich, it boils down to jealously. Would I love to have millions at my disposal? Sure. But I don't. I also don't begrudge those that have attained wealth and are in control of the marketplace and the direction in which businesses head.

People are quick to say "he/she has too much money, it's not fair". But they don't take the time to see where that money goes and how it does benefit those of us with less.

Again, poor people can not offer you employment.

edit on 10-12-2010 by lpowell0627 because: additional ramblings

The poor people dont offer us any jobs , but neither have the rich getting the bush era tax breaks. If this trickle

down BS worked we would have lots of jobs created over the bush presidency....didnt happen. Want to have

the super big military and huge pentagon projects to protect all the wealthy folks money and toys then they

should pay a much larger percentage in taxes.......deal with it. Another thought for the super wealthy , dont

shut down manufacturing plants here in the US and have them set up in third world countries. Before I went

to work in the power plant I had my own imprinted sportswear business. Use to buy Izod shirts wholesale from

a plant here in NC for 20 bucks wholesale. They closed the plant down and set up shop over seas. The shirts

that used to cost them about 6 -9 bucks to produce here in US they got produced over seas for about 2 bucks

or less and sold them for the same 20 bucks wholesale and even higher. Sara lee and most mfgs did did

the same thing. Big company executives pay has gone up outrageously while blue collars has laid stagnant

or the blue collars lost thier jobs all together because of manufacturing going over seas. The big companies

say the american workers asked for too much money and benefits yet the big exec's are the ones with the huge

salaries , perks and fat bank accounts. When there is no one here in the US to buy thier goods and this crooked

economy finally collapses, let the super rich pat themselves on the back for what their greed has caused. Piss

on the super rich who whine about how much more in taxes they pay. I caome from a well off family , folks

worth a few mil. and he said he would not complain one bit if the tax rate went back up because he has a

sense of morals. He knows how blessed they are and feels it is morally right for the wealthy to give more for

their blessings. I myself only make around 38 grand a year and if my tax rate went back up to where they were

in the Clinton years I would rather that then to do nothing and watch us keep getting farther and farther in debt

and do nothing. Hey super wealthy , is your job really that much harder than the 50 - 60 year old dude who

has to do manual labor. Honestly think about it. Damn this fricken greed in this country makes me sick.

reply to post by thewholepicture

If we were not in a globalist economy, the argument for the rich creating jobs might hold water. However, all the rich will do with the extra wealth is invest it in overseas operations, and second and third vacation homes overseas. Read this:

The overseas second home market in 2010 is likely to be characterised by cash rich, lifestyle property investors who will take advantage of lower prices in traditional holiday hotspots, according to a new report. France, the Spanish Balearics and the Algarve were the most popular second home locations in 2009, the survey by Savills International and HomeAway.co.uk also found. The research found that it has been buyers with a higher disposable income, and who are therefore less mortgage reliant, who are buying. They are taking advantage of price decreases of up to 30% even in the most sought after locations and are therefore able to invest in such high end properties at a discount. ‘In 2010, the overseas second home market will be characterised by cash rich, lifestyle buyers benefiting from lower prices in traditional, established holiday home hotspots,’ said Charles Weston-Baker, Head of Savills International.

www.propertywire.com...

In addition, many of the luxury items, such as high end automobiles, are imported from other countries. Even those designated by the US as domestic, are actually built in Mexico or Canada, as the NAFTA agreement allows those vehicles to be designated "domestic". If the VIN number does not begin with a 1, 4 or 5, it is NOT built in the US.
Furthermore, most of the wealthy are investing in overseas commodities, including foreign currencies.
It is a complete MYTH that keeping the wealthy tax rate low will create jobs in the United States. It is just not true. The modus operandi of large corporations is to maximize profits, and minimize costs. Labor costs are the primary component of those costs, and the US labor market cannot possibly compete with foreign cheap labor.
The Republicans should drop that argument, because most people know it is a lie.

Let see now you and I are average people we purchase most all of our goods from the rich.

So the more you tax them the more you pay for the goods, and guess what you also pay your income tax, property tax, fuel tax and any other fees the government deems useful in easing your pockets of that worrysome money you lug around.

So yea more tax on the rich seams wonderful cause you like to pay more for goods and services

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Let see now you and I are average people we purchase most all of our goods from the rich.

So the more you tax them the more you pay for the goods, and guess what you also pay your income tax, property tax, fuel tax and any other fees the government deems useful in easing your pockets of that worrysome money you lug around.

So yea more tax on the rich seams wonderful cause you like to pay more for goods and services

uh so where are the statistics to backup this claim?

reply to post by crankyoldman


It Takes MONEY to Make Money . Money not Spent becomes a Worthless Asset . Economics 101 for Dummies........

What we need is tax cuts for small business not rich individuals...that's absurd...small businesses are more able to hire skilled workers, and like someone else mentioned in this thread, the rich will only hire low wage workers

Originally posted by laiguana
We we need is tax cuts for small business not rich individuals...that's absurd...small businesses are more able to hire skilled workers, and like someone else mentioned in this thread, the rich will only hire low wage workers

Great Point of view

Star!

at one time it was the small business that was the backbone of this country, not the corporations.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Outsourcing. A rich man's creation? Hardly, rather the greedy government, desperate for even more money to spend, created the problem of outsourcing by making it financial suicide to operate and hire within the US.

Nobody said rich people are stupid. If they can hire someone for 1/5th the cost here, why shouldn't they? Don't you pay 1/5th less on the same product when you can?

The problem is that we need legislation to make it beneficial to hire and operate here. "Rich people" didn't create those laws -- politicians did.

Are you serious? It wasnt rich people who made the laws, it was politicians? Who paid for the lobbyists? In whose best interests is it to allow outsourcing?

It like me paying off the cops to look the other way, then kick the crap out of someone, and then you telling that person as they lay there bleeding they should have called the police.

Also, just because something is possible doesnt mean you have to do it. And why are you defending these companies that have sent jobs away and hurt America? Maybe if all of us Americans boycotted products of these companies, they wouldnt do that. But that sort of idea is beyond people like you, who rush to DEFEND these corps and their UNAMERICAN policies because FOX NEWS told you to.

reply to post by thewholepicture


Here is a short answer to this question: WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU WORKED FOR A POOR MAN?

How many of you out there work for a low income business owner (25-35k A yr)?

How many of you work for a middle income business owner (50-75k a yr) ?

How many of you work for a company who's owner makes more than (100-250k a yr)?

Oh..................these are not the figures that qualify for those categories in you state ? well lotty -da -da, there in lies the problem. It cost different amounts of money to live in some states vs other states.

In the Southern states you may be able to get by on 50K a year for a family of 5 where in a northern state It may take a combined income of 100k each from Mom and Dad (200k) to meet the same standard of living as the lower states requirement. In the midwest it will be another amount and in the west yet a different amount. So setting a solid figure that classify's a certain amount of money, for all the states combined, as high income vs low income is not only un-American but anti-productive and out dated.

How your state taxes you and how they put that money to use is very important. Did you know that some states right here in the good old U.S.A. do not have a state tax, that they rely on the revenue from their local industry to off set the needs of a state tax. Then there is California- It use to be one of the richest states in the union with a GDP higher than a lot of foreign nations but they have used the money the wrong way so now they are very-very broke and the state will sink under the weight of it's debt if the U.S. government does not bail them out.

KMG

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by 46ACE

 

Apparently you've had a radically different experience, as an employee or business owner, than the one I lived through.

As a union longshoreman, working around the clock was just part of the job as the ships had schedules to meet and the loading/unloading process was usually expedited to accommodate them. During the rapid deployment stages of "Iraqi Freedom" I personally worked 24/7 for three and a half months supervising the hiring and placement of over 600 longshoremen per day. It nearly killed me. During that time we sent three fully loaded RO/RO vessels on their way to Iraq every 30 hrs. while simultaneously receiving inbound cargo by rail, truck and air from every military base involved in the rapid deployment.

As usual, the owners of the stevedoring companies employing our longshoremen went home every night, played golf twice a week and even had time to go to church on Sundays. Maybe all the stress wore them out so they needed the extra R & R.

You sound to me like someone who has never really had to "Work" for a living.

(I'm gonna regret stirring this dogpile).

I find your post "professionally" disturbing.(How's that tavistock dental plan?)

I am not a he-man longshoreman. But we've all worked 12's or more for a couple of weeks and shorter 1st; swing; or third shift; or even all 3 (rotating weekly) shifts.

To claim to work 24 hours a day 7days a week .for 3 MONTHS is not only ludicrous; it flies in the face of sleep deprivation research.


Sorry; you are claiming you "went to work" one day in January and didn't get home until April???????????????? Either you are one of the biggest liars on the internet OR your "union" has sold you into some kind of slavery unheard of in this country for 150 years. Certainly not a union I would join.Nobody is that important.

What kind of idiot lacks the self preservation instinct to go into the supervisors' office: get him off the phone:"

"Eddy...;Eddy...,Eddy...,EDDY!"

I've been here for three days;I cant even focus my eyes any more; I'm useless and a safety hazard to myself and those around me. I'm going home to get a shower; real food; feed my dog and answer my mail.'..


Call it a character flaw: There isn't enough money in the federal reserve to make me stay at work 24/7 for weeks.
That's what the oncoming shift is for..

I've worked in a union plant through two contract cycles. every time the union "negotiators" showed up for a new contract they were met at the airport by one of the vps who pick them up in one if the company hummers and whisked them away "up north" to the plant owners "cabin" where a professional fishing guide entetained them all weekend between bbq's.

On Monday morning they "negotiated" our contract. I have no good feelings toward unions or organizers.

Originally posted by thewholepicture
I will agree that the wealthy pay more in taxes than any other tax bracket, but that is because they can afford it.

So because they are smart enough to be able to make more money, they should be punished for it? Just because someone makes more money than you do, that's not an excuse to steal it from them just to hand it to those who don't - or won't - earn a living. It's THEIR money .. and we aren't entitled to take it. That makes them slaves to the state.

If people aren't careful, those that make the big $$$ (and they pay almost all the taxes) will either take their money elsewhere or they won't bother to make it anymore. Why should they work at making it if it's only going to be taken away? Read Atlas Shrugged. It's pretty darn accurate.

The only fair tax is a flat tax. Last figure I heard that would work was 10% across the board. No matter how little or how much you make, everyone pays 10%. It's the only fair way .. no one is penalized for being productive and no one is rewarded for being unproductive. The end.