Emptiness and Nirvana

reply to post by MystiqueAgent

I was mistaken, she was green, not blue, but blue is equally hot, don't get me wrong!

Here's a sample (Kurk's not in this one though, but I found the comment amuzing "suppose you had all of space to choose from")

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Tamahu

 

I'll take Bodhisattva, for a million lifetimes.

Bodhisattva it IS!

[applause]

I would imagine that after a million lifetimes the Buddhist theory of ending the cycle of rebirth may sound a bit appealing. That is what is interesting about Buddhism, not only does it preach reincarnation but also to overcome reincarnation. Most people would be happy with reincarnation.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by filosophia

 

When a person dies, they become what they most wanted, what they most desired. Their soul reunites with the energy of their mind. When a being, enlightened and knowledgeable about the true state of existence, passes away, their mind is liberated of all things and they truly are free.

OK...lets start small.

Where do those desires come from....in 'what they most desired'?

If one detaches from emotions, the physical ect....then where do the desires still come in?

What if...when you die...you see that something is missing that keeps 'you and your desires' from a true state of existence...and you see your not really separate from other 'minds/souls' at all but a part of them somehow.

Is it 'desires of self' you think you long for after death? Then what is the purpose here in this 'nothingness'.

Can there really be a 'nothing'? Isnt everything, something?

Be careful of that state that makes you feel like you want to detach from everything. I know what you speak of...I thought I could just wonder off without a care in the world. But I realized, there was more to 'me' then I thought...beyond my 'own mind and soul'...and it was all the other 'life' around me that made me and influenced me. After the feeling of 'detachment'....you will find that you are still needed here, can be a benefit to others and the Earth, make the best of it all that you can. Dont be so caught up in the grandness of the knowledge you found that it keeps you from being a benefit here, for that kind of knowledge is not given to only benefit you as a self....but is to be used to the 'whole' of what you are of.

Ask yourself...what are my desires.

Then ask...what would a desire be of a Spirit that was within all of us, as a whole.

The emptiness is the nothing, but that is not the supreme goal of Buddhism. Emptiness is contrary to illumination. Nothingness is just a way of describing that which has no attribute. It is not nothing.

reply to post by filosophia


So where would desires of 'you' come from then?

Do you think that we all are 'selves' (individually separate) forever? Just 'being' and having desires fulfilled?

How do you think desires are birthed?

reply to post by filosophia


Ive yet to meet someone that wishes to reincarnate. Most hope to not reincarnate again and hope they have learned what they need to.

Have you ever considered though, there are those evolved that have learned what they need, then see the only right thing to do is still incarnate again by choice, to help others?

Why do you think Buddha would of refused to enter heaven?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
It's my understanding that the no-self isn't really NO self at all, but a type of no-self self, which simply knows, and knows that it's not the self, as in the flux and form of a personality or an ego-self.

My theory, is that any such no-self self, who is empty, and filled in emptiness, must, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, be a phenomenal comedian.

NewAgeMan I agree..

Your response made me sign up. Couldnt agree more!

You couldnt put your finger on it because you have to put your finger in it! hahaha

Gung-ho!

Originally posted by filosophia
The emptiness is the nothing, but that is not the supreme goal of Buddhism. Emptiness is contrary to illumination. Nothingness is just a way of describing that which has no attribute. It is not nothing.

Shunyata = Emptiness

Clear Light = Illumination

COMMENTARY TO THE BONPO BOOK OF THE DEAD

Within this openness to all possibilities, this pure potentiality which is Shunyata, there dawns the Clear Light of Reality (bon-nyid 'od-gsal) which is the inherent luminosity and clarity of the indestructible diamond-like Nature of Mind. This interior light that never fades, the inherent clear luminosity of the Nature of Mind (sems-nyid kyi rang gsal), is the inseparability from the very beginning of space and awareness, Kunzhi and Rigpa. There has been no time when they have not been inseparable. And this inseparability (dbyer-med) is not some event that occurs in history, for it preceded ontologically the advent of sequential time which is itself the creation of the thought process of the observer. Moreover, Awareness comes to recognize its own face in the first presence of this primordial Clear Light, having previously encountered it in one's past life, both in sleep and in vision practice, as the Son Clear Light, now one meets it in actuality and in its total fullness as the Mother Clear Light. This revelation of the primordial light in the pristine darkness of the adyton, the subterranean innermost sanctuary of the Bardo, thereupon unfolds into fractiles and a psychedelic concophany of brilliant colors, eventually unfolding into an infinity of universes of pure visions of Nirvana, as described in the texts. For the practitioner, this is the experience of the Bardo of the Clear Light and it is precisely at this moment, known as the Boundary between liberation and delusion (grol 'khrul gnyis kyi so-mtshams), between Nirvana due to understanding and Samsara due to not understanding, that the maximum opportunity to realize Buddhahood presents itself. It is the parting of the two ways....

Originally posted by madnessisfunandiacceptit

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
It's my understanding that the no-self isn't really NO self at all, but a type of no-self self, which simply knows, and knows that it's not the self, as in the flux and form of a personality or an ego-self.

My theory, is that any such no-self self, who is empty, and filled in emptiness, must, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, be a phenomenal comedian.

NewAgeMan I agree..

Your response made me sign up. Couldnt agree more!

You couldnt put your finger on it because you have to put your finger in it! hahaha

Gung-ho!

edit on 7-12-2010 by madnessisfunandiacceptit because: (no reason given)

Right on! Welcome to you, and to your finger! Good for you. We need you and your unique addition to this mix, glad I helped draw you in. Wonderful!
What now?

reply to post by NewAgeMan
I Just noticed I also made a mistake, I can't say transposed, but wrong spelling, Zotar is really Zohar, as it seems my brain has been deciving me a bit lately, My excuse which could be many, check spelling I thought I did, maybe I should not of watch that movie Zardoz with Sean Connery or the other one Don't mess with the Zohan, but it seems I have forgotten a few things of late my wifes bithday was it the 15 or 16.

I thought this was perrty bad, but I am the type person that does this, in looking at point or thing I'm trying get across I miss some of the details, which some people love to point out.

Right now I more interested in trying to gain more control of my mind ,than if I spelled a word wrong.
I sometimes think I am on verge of being enlightened, last night I had a reoccurring bad dream, which I never have bad dreams, even if it is what someone else may refur to as being bad. This one last night was persistant, I got up and prayed, to not be subject to this dream or for it to be revealed to me why I was having this dream.
The dream did not come back, the other night though a black guy ( not a physical person ) had come in to my room as I was going to sleep and was talking to me. Last night a freind came over and told me, the black guy down the street was just murdered the other night, I don't know if this is what brought on the dream.

You might wonder how this has anything to do with thread, but it had crossed my mind that maybe I was doning something wrong, in terms of this world. I didn't kill any one, I'm speaking of the 7 dealy sins, if by mistake I was being wrong in some way.

reply to post by googolplex

I've been told and understand that we need to stop making ourselves and others "wrong", we all make mistakes, and the truly evil person who willfully WANTS to be bad, is, fortunately, a very rare bird in our world, so as they like to say here in Lotus Land British Columbia - no worries..

I also think that the work of transformation, isn't unlike a mourning process in some ways. When my mother died, and she was very dear to me, a friend of hers, and mine, gave me a good piece of advice, which still serves me to this day "be gentle with yourself".

Regarding my mother, Kay, who was very wise and who dedicated her life to helping others, she said something rather unusual once, which sticks with me as well, and that was "sin with courage". Took my a while to understand what she meant by that.

We are so hard on ourselves, and fur sure we are our own worst enemy, but it's time to start becoming our own best friend.

Just sharing what came up for me with your post. You are obviously a good hearted person who is trying hard and God bless you for that, but don't be so hard on yourself, eh?

Originally posted by filosophia
What is emptiness?

Emptiness is the natural state of existence.

Sounds logical but no! You are doing it wrong!
Fullness is the natural state of Consciousness.
Emptiness is what happens when you are struggling;seeking reality rather than being reality.
Real Meditation or Radical Understanding produces Fullness,not Emptiness.

The natural state of consciousness is simple awareness of and as the Radiant Fullness and Unqualified Consciousness that is Reality. The natural state of emotion is simple feeling, or love, abiding undifferentiated in the Radiant Fullness and Bliss of the Living Divine. Therefore, the natural state of the bodily being is Intense Life Fullness, or expansive bodily submission into the Radiant Bliss of the Universal and Divine Life-Power. Love, Faith, and Fullness of Life are the right and natural disposition of Man. And, in any moment, if all three of these concessions do not characterize the individual in relation to the Infinite Process of Existence, then the destiny, the suffering, and the illusions of Narcissus confine him to what is not Real.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
My theory, is that any such no-self self, who is empty, and filled in emptiness, must, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, be a phenomenal comedian.

If you had heard Adi Das' Most Incredible Laugh Of Any Human, during this sermon,you would have fallen down before him in gratitude and become His Devotee. You could understand. Maybe someday you will hear it.

DEVOTEE: I have a question. I'm not sure I can ask it. The question has something to do with surrendering, with throwing things away. My sense that my volitional throwing of anything away has very little to do with my capacity to do it. BUBBA: It is very simple. Every time I met Rudi he would hand me a bag of garbage. I don't think I ever went to see Rudi when he didn't hand me a bag of garbage. It is true. I can't remember a time when I went to see Rudi when he didn't hand me a bag of garbage. It was always the first thing he would do. Then I would go and throw the garbage away, and I'd come back, and we'd sit together a little bit, or I'd do some work. Sooner or later he'd give me some more garbage. It is really very simple. You just throw it away. It makes it much simpler when it's in a paper bag. It has all those oily spots. You know what a garbage bag looks like, with all those greasy spots on the outside. It was always very easy for me. I could see from the paper bag itself that it was garbage! The first few times, I probably looked into the bag, but after awhile I would just look at the bag itself, and if it had grease spots on it: "Aha! Garbage." After awhile, whatever Rudi gave me I would throw away. Even if it wasn't in a paper bag, I threw it away. He used to give me the sculpture and art pieces that I bought from him in a paper bag. And I threw all that away. I don't have any of it any more. The key to the matter is not how to throw the garbage away. The key to the matter is recognizing that it is garbage. It doesn't take a lot of subtlety. It takes a little observation. As soon as you see it is garbage, you know immediately that you should throw it away. There is nothing to do with garbage but throw it away! I don't know what else to do with it. So doesn't it seem like a simple matter? You are just looking at a lot of garbage and thinking that it is the precious instrument of God. One of my jobs is to package it. I spend a lot of my time packaging your garbage, trying to get you to recognize it. You'll throw it away as soon as you see it. You can't surrender something that you don't recognize to be garbage. You intuitively hold on to it. So you've got to recognize it. But I'll tell you right now--it is all garbage! Everything the Guru gives you is garbage, and he expects you to throw it away, but you meditate on it. All of these precious experiences, all this philosophy. (Leaning toward the microphone, in a confidential tone) Bruce, would you mind throwing that away? Bruce just had a kriya. All of these experiences are just more of that same stuff, but you've read so much bull# spirituality and religion and all that, so you think all of these things are the Divine itself. None of them is the Divine. They are garbage. You are being asked to sacrifice everything! Sacrifice is what you are being asked to do. In the midst of this process of Satsang everything is revealed. Everything is dredged up. Everything is shown. And you become very attached to all these shiny and extraordinary things. You are distracted by them. But they are not God. As soon as you become distracted by anything, you bind yourself to the pond again. Everything grasped and owned becomes a hedge for Narcissus. A bit of immunity. As soon as you think that you have it, you have isolated yourself again. You have protected yourself from the necessary mortality of this life. The point is not surrender. Rudi always used to say, "Surrender, surrender, surrender!" But my teaching is recognition, consciousness, and consciousness intensified manifests as self-observation. When there is understanding, then surrender is the obvious course. It is very easy. Sacrifice is the principle of all the worlds, but it is possible only on the basis of real and prior consciousness. The worlds in themselves are the manifest modification of the Goddess, Shakti, and no one throws that away. Everyone is fascinated by it. So the principle of sacrifice is not served by the Goddess, the endlessly modified Force of the worlds. The principle of sacrifice is served by the Lord, to whom the Goddess is also bound, even if she does not know and show it. The world itself is an endless distraction in which the principle of sacrifice is made impossible by experience. The Guru serves the principle of sacrifice. The Goddess does not. The Goddess with all of her experiences serves the principle of experience, of accumulation, of immunity, of manifest self-existence in limitation. So there is no surrender in the world. The demand for love and for sacrifice is anathema in the cult of this world. It can't happen. No philosophy or experience can convince you of it. But you may be served by the revelation of all this as garbage, as mediocrity. It is shown to you in Satsang. Then you are expected to throw it away. You are expected to throw it away under the most extraordinary conditions, conditions in which you would ordinarily not even consider throwing it away. You are sitting in the precious blissfulness of the spine. Why should you throw it away? It is all so delicious. You have been an asshole all your life, and now you are a yogi! Why should you throw that away? No one wants to do that. You don't want to throw it away. You have no humor, no detachment, no separation from all this that you've accumulated through vast aeons of existence in form. You don't want to throw it away. The demand to throw it away is mad, impossible. Everyone succumbs to the Goddess on one level or another. Some succumb in very subtle ways, but most men succumb in very ordinary ways, without even knowing the Goddess as such. They succumb to the mass of experiences, of accumulations, of consolations. Everyone is consoled. When your consolations are ripped off, you find something else to be consoled by. One thing after the next. You don't surrender it, because you don't recognize it. So the Guru's perfect function is to undermine all this, to make the world show itself. DEVOTEE: Perhaps you're out of line. ADI DA: I think I am getting out of line. I shouldn't say these things. "The Goddess is beautiful. Surrender and let, her show you everything." That sounds better, right? "Let the Goddess face you. She has bracelets and necklaces and her vagina is adorned. Don't let her turn to the Divine and show you her asshole. Let her face you with her breasts falling out." That's the teaching of the traditions. But the Teaching of the Guru has the Goddess always facing him. He shows you where she's at, he shows you her dependence on the Absolute, and enables you to commit the sacrifice. Then it is not difficult. When the Guru shows you the true nature or condition of the Goddess, then you become capable of sacrifice. Until that time you aren't capable of it, because you are enamored by the force of life. At least that is the way it seems to me. What do I know? This could just be an aberration. Must be. No one agrees with me. I've never met anyone who agreed with me. I've talked to many people. I've talked to many teachers, and none of them agrees with me. They all tell me that I'm mad, that I'm undeveloped. So that must be so. If you consult the usual books they won't tell you such a thing. I've read them all myself. Rudi used to tell me to surrender, but that is not the principle. Muktananda used to say, "Yield to the Goddess," and that is not the principle. The Goddess used to say, "Yield to me," and I f**ked her brains loose. I've never listened to anyone. Perhaps I should have!

reply to post by RRokkyy


Fullness. Yes, it cannot be emptiness, except, that to be full, one must be empty first, having a beginners mind.

first shall be last last first type of thing..

Lacking in nothing, and having everything already, having no need of anything at all, and thus resting in nothingness-everythingness. Satisfied. This is also the peace which comes from above in Christian theology/psychology. Spirit filled.

Happy happy joy joy.

And if we really WANT and think we NEED to be mad, or bad, in the face of that, we cannot help but to break out laughing!

and so it goes on, smile after smile.

reply to post by RRokkyy




It's absurd. I like the sound of this Adi Das character. Please give us more of him, thanks.

reply to post by RRokkyy

Pleroma (Greek) “Fullness”

An ancient Gnostic term adopted to signify the divine world or Universal Soul. Space, developed and divided into a series of aeons. The abode of the invisible Gods. In correspondence to the Kabbalah, Pleroma refers to the World of Atziluth.

Kunzhi -- (Tib: Kun gzhi; Skrt: Alaya)

In Bon, the Kunzhi is the base of all that exists, including the individual. The Kunzhi is the unity of Emptiness and Clarity; of the Absolute open indeterminacy of Ultimate Reality and the unceasing display of Appearance and Awareness. The Kunzhi is the base or ground of Being.

Rigpa (Tib: Rig pa; Skrt: Vidya)

Literally, awareness or knowing. In the Dzogchen teachings, Rigpa means direct awareness of the truth, direct recognition of the non-dual Awareness that is the True Nature of the individual.

Illuminating Void

Also called the Absolute, the Emptiness, Satori, Sunyata.

"The Illuminating Void is impossible to describe in human words. It is indefinable or indescribable. As was said by the Zen teacher Huai Jang: “Whatever is said misses the main point.” Buddhist teachings about Emptiness are comprehensive and profound and require much study before being understood. Only in the absence of the ego can we directly experience Illuminating Emptiness." - Samael Aun Weor, The Mystery of the Golden Blossom

Vajra (Sanskrit, "Thunderbolt, Lightning, Diamond, Adamantine")

In Hinduism, the weapon of Indra.

In Tibetan Buddhism, a symbol of True Reality, the Emptiness, the Absolute, that which is Indestructible. (In Tibetan, Dorje).

Bell: Sanskrit: Ghanta. Tibetan: Drilbu.

Vajra handbell used in Tantric practices symbolizing the all pervading Wisdom-Realizing Emptiness. The bell is the female part of the Tantric polarity, symbolizing Emptiness - Boundless Openness, the Space of Pure Wisdom and the liberating sound of the Dharma. It is accompanied by another handheld object, a brass wand or Dorje.

In other words, the Indestructible Reality of the Natural State which is the Nature of Mind, is the Inseparability of Alaya and Rigpa which is Self-Perfected simultaneously as both Open Boundless Space (Emptiness) and Pleroma (Fullness).

reply to post by Tamahu


Sorry to keep posting and hijacking this thread, but

are you suggesting that this is our natural state of mind, that none of this is an imposition upon the mind of man..?

That's quite the field as a realm of possibility and of eventual actuality. Very expansive, free, loving. warm, cuddly, and cute. Happy. Amuzed. Carefree. Undetered, yet not without an endless capacity for shared suffering.

This is Buddha mind or Christ consciousness, we're talking about here! Amazing. Thank you.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Lol thank you for that link I think you may have given me something interesting to watch on TV or at least youtube

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You're welcome. And also, you're not hijacking anything.

Anyhow, to address your question, it is good to study and become familiar with the above terminologies, which are related to the Ain Soph, the Adi Buddha (Adam Kadmon, the Dharmakaya, Kether in Atziluth), and the Cosmic Christ (Kether, Chokmah, and Binah).

However, having Spiritual terms stored in our intellect does little good for anyone, if we are not Meditating daily and Transmuting our Sexual Energy.


And we have to be very careful when going into discussions related to Ultimate Truth:

"When the Great Kabir Jesus was asked about the Truth by Pilate he remained silent, and when the Sakyamuni Buddha, Gautama, the Prince Siddhartha, was asked the same question, he turned his back and walked away.

"The Truth is the unknown from moment to moment, from instant to instant. That which is called Truth comes to us only with the death of the ego."

- Samael Aun Weor

"Therefore, no one can recognize the truth, because no one has ever known it.

"Let us not talk about the truth. It is better to talk about Alchemy.

"The "I" can die only by transmuting desire into Wisdom and Love.

"The Truth comes to us only when the "I" dies."

- Samael Aun Weor, The Fundamental Notions of Endocrinology and Criminology (which Samael stated "This book is a Codex of Scientific Ethics for all the Rosicrucian Gnostics, Yogis, Occultists, Spiritualists, etc.")

Most modern bibles render the Hebrew words Towb and Ra as "good" and "evil," the actual meanings are "goodness" and "impurity." Therefore, the symbolic Tree of Knowledge has two potential outcomes: purity or impurity.

Books and classes on "sacred sexuality" and Tantra are becoming as common as weeds. There is a growing fascination with this subject, and yet, what of it is genuine and pure?

"If you feel that the view and practice of Dzogchen (Tantra) is quite simple, it is a sign that you have not understood it properly. It would be quite ironic if the highest of the nine vehicles, the Great Perfection, were the most simple. That would be very ironic indeed." - The Fourteenth Dalai Lama

The ancient and long-revered tradition of Tantra is synonymous with the true heart of Western Alchemy. Both seek to transform the initiated student into the ultimate fulfillment of human existence: a purified soul, an angel, a Buddha, a Master, free of suffering and marked by the spontaneous expression of pure and selfless compassion.

The teachings of Krishnamurti are excellent too, if we study them alongside Alchemy.

Originally posted by MystiqueAgent
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Lol thank you for that link I think you may have given me something interesting to watch on TV or at least youtube

I lied. There WAS a blue girl with James T. Kurk, but she's called, in the Youtube link, the "Bipolar Orion Slave Girl", and that WOULD be offensive!



Then again, if we were to combine the Blue Bipolar Girl and the Aphrodite Irresistable Green gyrating Godess, we might end up with an archetypal, allegorical symbol, for planet Earth, for Gaia, and thus, even perhaps, for the Wisdom of Sophie, now wouldn't THAT be something!
Never ever lost in space, never empty (in a bad way), empowered to freely choose in the space of all possibility, while reincarnating here on Earth, to participate, in the whole of it all, by devoting our lives in a type of living prayer or Bhakti (devotional service), for the redemption of the Earth and the re-enchantment and spiritualization of the cosmos ie: the Magnum Opus, the Great Work of the Ages!

I hope this is not a suicide not. You sound extremely depressed. This might be a good time to take a hard look at yourself and think about what you want in this life instead of the next.