The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

The American Empire stretches around the globe, through corporate investments, military bases and secret political manipulations. In many ways, this resembles the Roman Empire before its fall as well.

What caused that old empire to fall can be reduced to 4 distinct effects (comparisons added):

1) a focus on internal security instead of external threats (TSA, War on Terror, etc.)

2) intolerance towards any theology but the official State Religion (not completely there yet, but... Islam)

3) the induction of foreign fighters into the Roman legions (Private Military Companies- mercenaries)

4) a reduction of the power of the Senate by a competing theocracy ( The Family as one example)

Having recently read Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, it is with a certain amount of clarity that I make those comparisons to modern America. Add into that mix the current financial crisis, the loss of jobs by corporations moving out of America, an aging population and the number of active/threatened wars and you have a similar recipe for mayhem.

reply to post by Mdv2


Those are some rather interesting paintings, along with thier descriptions. I was wondering about the mountain that appears in all 5 paintings: is it some special place the artist liked and just happened to be included, or is there a message being given to us?

like: "This mountain remains solidly fixed through all of man's turmoils. Discover it and you too shall find stability through it all." - perhaps a religious note depicting God?

or: "This mountain holds the key to all of these issues. find it and search for the cave of the Oracle...".

At any rate, the article mentioned in the OP is all great and quite dandy when it comes to the msm acknowleding the obvious, I just shake my head in disgust to realize that the article focuses on misleading the American population regards the time frame of this collapse.

America's downfall will scrape rock bottom by the latest April 15th, 2011. I for one believe it will be more like December 26th, 2010, just after retailers scrape the last dollar from this year's annual shopping frenzy for Xmas.

Investors are unloading American investments in favor of more tangible securities, selling at an unprecedented ratio of 3800 % over buying, while China has dumped America as a junk bond in favor of establishing a partial return on thier investments by arranging a secret meeting that did not include nor invite America which has etablished the policy of dislodging the Dollar as the world's invoicing currency. The oil producers in the middle east agreed with that effort and now transition is only weeks away.

Couple that with rising commodity prices to unprecedented levels that will inevitably skyrocket market prices and increase inflation values that will put America right into the bread line, where Russia ended up right after the fall of the Iron Curtain. America is about to impload !

Watch and see... make sure you've given yourself pleanty of room to run though, you're gonna need it...

Originally posted by masqua
The American Empire stretches around the globe, through corporate investments, military bases and secret political manipulations. In many ways, this resembles the Roman Empire before its fall as well.

What caused that old empire to fall can be reduced to 4 distinct effects (comparisons added):

1) a focus on internal security instead of external threats (TSA, War on Terror, etc.)

2) intolerance towards any theology but the official State Religion (not completely there yet, but... Islam)

3) the induction of foreign fighters into the Roman legions (Private Military Companies- mercenaries)

4) a reduction of the power of the Senate by a competing theocracy ( The Family as one example)

Having recently read Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, it is with a certain amount of clarity that I make those comparisons to modern America. Add into that mix the current financial crisis, the loss of jobs by corporations moving out of America, an aging population and the number of active/threatened wars and you have a similar recipe for mayhem.

I will object to your assumption's as to the reason " why "

Originally posted by tristar
I will object to your assumption's as to the reason " why "

That's nice. I love conversation.

Any reasoning behind your objection or is that all you have?

reply to post by masqua


Religion, as in ? I don't see religion causing America's fall, just greed...

Originally posted by 19rn50
reply to post by taskforce4256

 

I'll be glad to see the Democracy gone and replaced with The Republic
www.youtube.com...

What an outstanding video explanation of the role of govt(star my friend).it should be embedded so more will catch it.

Originally posted by Mdv2

Today, three main threats exist to America’s dominant position in the global economy: loss of economic clout thanks to a shrinking share of world trade, the decline of American technological innovation, and the end of the dollar's privileged status as the global reserve currency.

Although the story itself is not really news, it's a very interesting article. More importantly, it is published on CBS' website. I believe it's the first time I've read a story on the decline of the US in the MSM.


www.cbsnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Issue is that with 3d printing, manufactguring comes right back to the US...

So methinks the author overlooked something.

There are always technological revolutions, like 3d printing, right around the corner....

Just as we used to go to a print shop to get things printed, we can now manufacture things on our desktop as well...

LOL its a EA thing not just 1 country peoples. Happy birthday EA.
2nd

reply to post by Mdv2


Everything I have read and researched suggests it will end much much sooner than 15 years from now. We will be lucky if we make it past the next 5 years at most.

Once ( and it has already started with China and Russia) the world renounces the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency, we will lose the ability to print more money. This is the only thing that has kept us artificially afloat since 2008. Even as we can print money it only ensures that the rest of the world WILL indeed renounce the US dollar.

Once that happens there are so many variables I couldn't imagine the US being able to sustain much of itself.

Interesting times but honestly 15 years is being very generous.

reply to post by Misterlondon

A big part of Americas downfall, I think is down to bush.. You guys in America maybe don't realize this but after invading Iraq, you guys lost a lot of respect and power around the world..

You can go all the way back to 1913 Federal Reserve Act. Or the 1942 Committee for Economic Development who, with malice aforethought, preceded with plans based on greed destroy American society.

History, HACCP and...
CED's plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies.

Or you can key in on Clinton's ratification of the World Trade Organization.

Statistics (courtesy of Bridgewater) showed in 1990, [before WTO was ratified], Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002 this had increased to over 70% of U.S. GDP. www.fame.org...

The common thread throughout is the greed of bankers and corporations. And this statement is from a die hard capitalist!

reply to post by 46ACE


Splendid video. I like how they define democracy as the transition from republic to oligarchy. The NWO represents the oligarchy. For the transition to take place, there will first be massive unrest and chaos. The puppets will then be installed and a few evil man will strengthen their grip on the world.

One of my favorite quotes:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

President Woodrow Wilson after signing the Federal Reserve act.

"All our activities in the hands of a few man". At the expense of the little man, individuals heading banks like Goldman-Government-Sachs have taken control of the US. Fortunately for you Americans, we're all on the same boat. This scum has infiltrated both American and European politics.

There is one way out of this

a massive federal investing in technological innovation. Thats all that need happen here. reduce the military spending by half and spend that in ushering in new groundwork for american industry. holographic tech, robotics, etc...things the private sector can explode on and create worldwide demand.

-share- the tech with the american public with conditions that 80% of manufacturing and development be done on our shores...contractual obligation that, if a company decides to outsource, will lose all rights to the company and it be shut down.

The job of the government is to ensure favorable economic conditions and create infrustructure to facilitate industry, commerce, and people...having a hyperinflated military serves no purpose. We don't need to blow up the world 34 times over..and we are not the world police. get that money working on giving america an upgrade.

else, yes..I agree...the sun will set on the west (but not to worry, it is already rising in the east)

Originally posted by SaturnFX
-share- the tech with the american public with conditions that 80% of manufacturing and development be done on our shores...contractual obligation that, if a company decides to outsource, will lose all rights to the company and it be shut down.

That's what I would like to see. Currently, we live under the rule of uncontrolled capitalism. Corporations allocate jobs to countries which allow them to maximize profits. They are led by greed, that's why uncontrolled capitalism is bad and unsustainable. Unfortunately, our politicians represent corporate greed.

Originally posted by Mdv2

Originally posted by SaturnFX
-share- the tech with the american public with conditions that 80% of manufacturing and development be done on our shores...contractual obligation that, if a company decides to outsource, will lose all rights to the company and it be shut down.

That's what I would like to see. Currently, we live under the rule of uncontrolled capitalism. Corporations allocate jobs to countries which allow them to maximize profits. They are led by greed, that's why uncontrolled capitalism is bad and unsustainable. Unfortunately, our politicians represent corporate greed.

One day, when things truely get bad, an adult conversation without cameras will occur in America. It will then be seen that corporations must be regulated and very rigid rules set in place in regards to outsourcing and trade. On that day, the ultra-capitalists will be quiet because even they know the model has failed (it will fail, this is an absolute certainty).

But until that day comes, we must continue to sit in the back of the bus with the very few controlling the very many, because its tradition.
Once the bus has finally fallen off the cliff and everyone is crawling out from the wreck, hopefully a restructuring of the economic model will come.

So, for now, just enjoy the ride around the mountain at 200mpg and the edge coming close...we are already past the point of stomping on the breaks...time to experience one hell of a drop.

After reading the article, my opinion is that not all variables were taken into account.

For instance the economic projections, Indian and Chinese growth are dependent upon Western economies. If the Western economies decline in growth, so will the Eastern economies decline. They are totally dependent on Western markets.

The PRC is more unstable and more likley to have severe internal crises in the next two decades. The story doesn't mention any of that, like issues with Tibet, the Uighurs, consequences of conflict in Korea, Taiwan, or even a future war with Japan, India or Russia.

I would argue that India will surpass the PRC in the next two decades. At the same time though there is the issue with Pakistan and both countries have nuclear weapons.

Japan is another country I could see becoming very powerful in the next two decades, especially in the wake of another Korean conflict. Japan could assemble the second mightiest military on the planet. They need energy though. Like Teddy Roosevelt tried before, I could see the US providing that energy to help expand Japan's hegemony.

The energy variable is one of the most flawed in the article. The Green River formation alone has over 200 billion tonnes of oil shale (around 1.5 trillion barrels of oil).

The US consumes around 7 billion barrels a year. Around half of that is from gasoline for automobiles. Current projections have gasoline consumption declining as more hybrids, bio fuels, mass transit and fuel cells appear. We should end up dropping below 7 billions barrels in the near future. Even at 7 billion, just the Green River formation alone, has enough oil to fuel the US for 214 years. This doesn't include other tar sands, oil shale, or Canadian reserves.

So again, 214 Years of Oil in just the Green River Formation.

Current total estimates for North America, are over 2.5 trillion barrels of oil from shale. That is enough oil to fuel the US for 357 years!

Bear in mind, these are based on current shale oil extraction processes. These processes are becoming more efficient and productive every year.

The US controls over 60% of the world's oil shale. In the near future, the next two decades, the price of oil will skyrocket as OPEC members oil production declines. Most of the world's standard crude oil production has peaked already and it will only go down hill from here.

Now for the tar sands! In Canada, is the world's largest tar sand deposit, the Athabasca Oil Sands. This deposit holds at least 1.7 trillion barrels of oil. Enough to fuel North America for over 200 years.

Combine that 1.7 trillion barrels of bitumen oil with the 2.5 trillion barrels of US shale oil an you have the rise of a North American Oil Cartel that will dominate global energy by 2030. The only alternative will be Venezula and Brazil, whose reserves don't come close to North American numbers and are more difficult to extract.

I do agree with the article's "Hail Mary pass around 2020". It will not be the throw of a dying empire though. It will be the birth of a new order in warfare and foreign policy, the Age of Orbital Supremacy.

As the British Empire possessed naval supremacy over the world's seas in the 19th century, the United States will hold orbital supremacy over the Earth's space.

A combination of a network of orbiting mass drivers, Orbital Expeditionary Strike Groups, Transatmospheric bombers and transports will change our world forever. We will be able to strike anyone, anywhere, at anytime on earth.

Another error the author makes is in computer technology. Two primary areas are left out, photonic circuits and holographic data storage. These will revolutionize computing in the next ten years in ways that are difficult to comprehend. A Common Access Card of 2020, could hold 1 to 10 terabytes of data. Smart Phones of 2020 will blow away current desktop PCs in memory and processing power.

I do concede that a number of American institutions may not survive the next two decades.

1. The Federal Democratic Constitutional Republic, the stage is already being set for it to fail, especially in a time of major crisis (financial collapse/nuclear terror attack) in the next ten years. I think the most realistic path would be a Stratocracy, similar to the government of the late Roman Republic and early Roman Empire. This is where government hierarchy is the same as military hierarchy. US law could be replaced by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The US Congress membership could be dominated by retired officers in the Senate and retired NCOs in the House of Representatives. Military governors could be appointed to run the states. Military tribunals could replace courts.
Anyone who has ever lived on a military installation, would already have a good idea of what this would look like and how it would work.

2. Federalism, or the concept of semi autonomous states. California and New York's bankruptcies will set the stage for the end of some state governments, which could expand to include most of the country. This could happen with or without the Stratocrats.

3. The US dollar could be replaced possibly by a regional North American currency backed by oil.

In a dark, dystopian version of our global future, a coalition of transnational corporations, multilateral forces like NATO, and an international financial elite could conceivably forge a single, possibly unstable, supra-national nexus that would make it no longer meaningful to speak of national empires at all. While denationalized corporations and multinational elites would assumedly rule such a world from secure urban enclaves, the multitudes would be relegated to urban and rural wastelands.

Another possibility: the rise of regional hegemons in a return to something reminiscent of the international system that operated before modern empires took shape. In this neo-Westphalian world order, with its endless vistas of micro-violence and unchecked exploitation, each hegemon would dominate its immediate region -- Brasilia in South America, Washington in North America, Pretoria in southern Africa, and so on. Space, cyberspace, and the maritime deeps, removed from the control of the former planetary “policeman,” the United States, might even become a new global commons, controlled through an expanded U.N. Security Council or some ad hoc body.

The most plausible outcome will probably be a combination of the above.

America's Age of Orbital Supremacy and its North American Energy Cartel will most likely help shape a "supra national nexus" of regional hegemons. It will be the successor to the UN. The US and the IMF will likely lay the foundation of a global reserve bank and global reserve currency notes through the organization.

I have a feeling this will not be peaceful process.

Regardless if the transition is a third world war or something more cold, the United States in ten years could be on the path to a global empire with such power, that the era of the nation-state may end in 20 to 30 years, giving birth a global federation that all peoples are citizens of.

One World, Indivisible, for Liberty and Justice for All.

You guys can throw out all the ideas you want. There are some excellent posts in this thread. However, the real reason for the decline is in the first couple of sentences. It is due to the decline of our manufacturing base and our engineering talent. Why would someone become an engineer when they need to move to China to utilize their talents? (I'm just saying that in the broadest sense, of course there are still excellent engineers and engineering jobs here)

When the whole Free Trade thing came about- on Clinton's watch, that destroyed us. When China was given MFN status with the WTO, that was the death blow to America. How can a business compete here by paying a living wage when businesses in China use slaves?

Wanna save America? Easy, peasy. Tell China to F-off. Bring our manufacturing base back. Start charging the same kind of tariffs on foreign products as they charge for ours. Done deal. Made In America can still mean something again, it's not too late. I am an electrical engineer. I have flown all over the world doing jobs for my employers. I happen to know that American trained engineers are some of the most talented people on the planet. Take Siemens for example, they will use an American engineer before a German engineer every time. (I was the engineer chosen to come to Germany to fix a down issue that had been going on for over 2 months- I fixed it in, literally, 5 minutes). I know some ignorant people will disagree, but I've been there and done that, you are just reading an opinion somewhere and basing your opinion on someone else's opinion, as opposed to fact.

People, we can save this country. It will take drastic measures and I doubt that most people have the stomach to do what needs to be done. If we had the leadership that we had 250 years ago, we could do it. Today, leaders are fat, dumb, and happy and they have no desire to do the Right Thing.

reply to post by DragonTattooz


It will take a fiancial collapse, hyperinflation, and a drop in living standards before there is real change.

I think there is a real possibility of this within 5 years, followed by the emergence of a Stratocracy during the few years of chaos.

The American People need more than a reality check, they need a reality shock.

Until the economy collapses and maybe even a nuclear terror attack, the nation will not wake up.

reply to post by Mdv2


this article that was reprinted on the www stevequayle . com site:

Austrian School economists and analysts who have warned that we are facing a Federal debt cataclysm have now received grudging confirmation from a most unlikely source: the Council on Foreign Relations.


The Council on Foreign Relations is the single most influential discussion forum in the United States. Its quarterly journal, Foreign Affairs, is therefore the most influential publication in the country and therefore the world.

indeed you read it correctly the CFR is itself forecasting the demise of the USA in its financial & economic house.


the whole article, which goes well with the thread... is here: www.marketoracle.co.uk...

+++++++++++++


i would also add this page of info on the already foreseen decline of empire sine the 1990s in the best seller book called the 'Fourth Turning':

By 2012 we will have reached the 7th year of this Crisis. The linear thinking media and supposed "thought leaders" are convinced that the worst days of this Crisis have passed. They believe that the Federal Reserve and Government leaders have taken the proper actions to avert a Great Depression. They will be shocked when the Crisis deepens and gets far worse than today. Every action taken by our leaders since 2005 has worsened the Crisis. Rather than letting the culprits of the financial crisis fail, they have propped up these criminal institutions with taxpayer funds. By not accepting the pain early in this Crisis, these leaders have ensured that this Crisis will be more tragic, brutal and wrenching. The mood of the country continues to darken, even as the mainstream media and government cheerleaders falsely insist that things are getting better.

source in entirety:
www.marketoracle.co.uk...


perhaps im too jaded...but i've been looking at the fall since the mid 1960's...and the greedy wall streeters were all to eager to engage the demise

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Agreed 100%. FAT DUMB HAPPY. That should become the new American motto instead of the Land of the free and Home of the Brave.....

Holy crap, typing those words made just realize how ludicrous they sound today. Excuse me, I think I'm going to go cry and grieve for my country.

reply to post by St Udio


The CFR is right. There will be a "Debt Cataclysm". It could come as early as 2014. Though my current projection is 2015.

The American Profligacy will come to an end.

His Ottoman Empire analogy fits somewhat, minus the Ottoman fragmentation. The US is homogenous for the most part, unlike the Ottoman Empire.

We will not fragment like the Ottomans, the Soviets, or Yugoslavia. Instead we will follow the path of the Weimar Republic.

Austerity measures will be passed by the US Congress. Retirement, Social Security and Medicare ages could be pushed to 70. Taxes will be increased. Eventually there will be bread lines and rationing of food, fuel, and healthcare. Unemployment will surge to 30% and crime will explode. There will be food riots, the emergence of "hoovervilles", and the wealthy will wall themselves off in gated fortified communities with their own private security forces. Many will turn to extremist ideologies and demogogues on the far left and far right.

Unlike other major powers who have declined in the past, the US Armed Forces have been preparing for the cataclysm.

Order will be restored and extremists will be kept in check.