Illegal aliens, are you freakin' serious?

Alright, this is just a vent I had to get out there. I am really getting sick and tired of illegal immigrants being labeled as illegal aliens. Who cares? Well, put yourself in these people's shoes for a second. Say you have to flee the US, in order to survive, towards the north and are not authorized to immigrate Canada on a legal basis. You would still try to get in by any means if it meant 'staying alive'. How would you like to be labeled an illegal alien? Why this alien notion anyway, we're all human beings and so are illegal immigrants. It's not because they don't have 'official' GOVERNMENT documents that it makes them less worthy of being a human being, am I wrong?

Yes illegal immigration is a problem but do you really think that degrading these people to a lower 'species' is the way to solve the issue? Doesn't immigration defeat the idea of having a planet that belongs to the whole of humanity? Except if you're an illegal alien of course…

What really ticks me off is to hear such 'illegal alien' statements from people and officials who are themselves immigrants. Think about it, all non-native american people are ORIGINALLY immigrants. So, basically, it was all peachy for your great great great grand-parents to immigrate to the States and get a better life but hell for those "illegal aliens" who are trying to do the same thing in the 21st century.

REALITY CHECK PEOPLE, PLEASE!

Being an alien does not mean a different species. It means you are from a different place. I was born and raised in California, if I cross the border over into Nevada Oregon or Arizona I would be alien to those states. It is not demeaning. Illegal aliens crossed the border Illegally and they are not from the U.S. hence the term illegal alien. If I crossed into to another country illegally, then the term would be fitting and I would not think it demeaning at all.

Good Post: Id have to sort of agree... How intense was your Border Security force in the early 1900's ? did every immigrant entering your country do it with "papers" ? So non of "your" grandparents parents entered your country illigally ?This the question to be posed to the general public... I agree whats the difference now a days people trying to feed families and looking for a better life ? apart from the self manufactured security paranoia we live with today (this applies to any country)

reply to post by pipconvert


Obviously not a tax payer or you would know the difference..
Illegal aliens rarely pay taxes..
The legal tax payer is left supporting them..

Now how is that fair ?

reply to post by pipconvert


It doesn't matter, until they get registered to pay taxes they will always be labeled that way. I don't mean to be harsh but that's just the way it is. It's always about money, and if some people are free-loading than they are breaking the law. It has nothing to do with them being Mexican, it's not about race, again i say it's just about money. If they got registered and payed taxes than no one would give a flying flip if all of Mexico came here.

If you don't mind paying for other people to live then you can go to North Korea.

Indeed, Nothing wrong with coming to this country, but you can at least try to learn the language and the laws of the country you intend to call your home. And don't expect to live off of handouts from taxpayers all your life. That goes for natural citizens too living off of well fare for ever.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by pipconvert

 

Obviously not a tax payer or you would know the difference..
Illegal aliens rarely pay taxes..
The legal tax payer is left supporting them..

Now how is that fair ?

Hi backinblack,

Thanks for replying. First off, I am a tax payer and do know the difference. This thread wasn't a debate on the fact that the tax payer looses money by supporting them but to indicate the general acceptance of blatent discrimination against people who are being put down as scum. What's the next step going to be, label them as illegal alien terrorists?

That's my point I'm trying to make. And by the way, I rather have my tax money support them and offering them opportunities to find work and contribute to the local economy than sponsoring a 10 year war that has gone nowhere, left millions dead and cost trillions... but again, off topic.

Thanks :-)

reply to post by pipconvert


i get what you are saying these people being labeled as scum and what not. But i can also understand why people call them that. Every worked in the construction biz? They take jobs away from other hardworking Americans by working for less money. Also a lot of these people don't want to be Americans they want the government to help pay for them. Plus there is the criminals making their way into this country from Mexico selling drugs to kids and making gangs. How do you stop a Mother from calling these people scum when a drunk illegal Alien hit her daughters car killing her then fled arrest by leaving back to mexico when he shouldn't have been here in the first place? What do you say to the father of a kid killed in a drive by done over drug wars close to the boarder. What do you say to the girl who was raped by an illegal Alien when he shouldn't have been here in the first place? What do you say to the people who work their azzes off everyday only to just make there house payment till next month because they are taxed by the government to pay for theses people in court fees, jailing, housing,food,childcare and health care? What do you say to the guy who got his identity stolen because an illegal alien needed welfare so now his credit is ruined and he cant find a place to live? While i feel for these people not all of illegal aliens are scum but about 40 percent are. Let me ask you a question why is it they are running from Mexico in the first place? See you don't know!!! Except its a bad place. See the problem is their is no filter and so people get lumped together.

I don't really see why the term illegal alien has such negative connotations. To me, it's just an accurate description. "Illegal" as in they are here illegally, "alien" as in they are not native to the country. But I guess the same could be said of the term "undocumented worker." Surely some people just accidentally wandered into the US and got jobs for a few years. It just slipped their minds to apply for citizenship. Could happen to anyone. No need to make them feel bad about it.

In that light, I think we should all be more sensitive to the feelings of others who are victims of circumstance. Perhaps now is the time to consider less negative terms for other people in similar situations:

Child Molester -- Undocumented Sex Ed Teacher
Prostitute -- Undocumented Temporary Spouse
Armed Robber -- Undocumented Tax Collector
Mass Murderer -- Undocumented Population Control Specialist
Drug Dealer -- Undocumented Pharmacist
Mafia Kingpin -- Undocumented Congressman
Blackmailer -- Undocumented Investigative Reporter
Counterfeiter -- Undocumented Banker
Forger -- Undocumented Documenter

Hmmmmm, maybe it's the action and not the term that has the negative connotation.

The term 'illegal' alien or immigrant is because we are a Country of laws. So if you are living here as a foreigner and not a legal citizen, you are an illegal.

I have something to say about illegals only coming here for a better life. It is at the expense of others. With millions of unemployed citizens, how we can justify accepting millions of illegals? Our wages have ben driven down in many areas. Illegals are taking jobs from our citizens who are falling through the cracks. We have many people barely living above the poverty limit. Can you imagine being denied benefits of any kind because you make two dollars over the poverty line? That two dollars will not buy you health insurance or medicine. Our homeless shelters are filled to capacity.

Do we have compassion for poor people no matter where they are from? Yes of course we do. But when you see an illegal having his/her needs met while our own citizens are struggling and hungry, there is a problem. It has nothing to do with being racist. It has everything to do with foreigners being catered to and shoving the citizen aside.

The cost of having illegals here is astounding. And don't believe for one minute that it is just the good guys coming here. Countless lives have been lost due to the simple fact that our laws were not enforced, at the hand of an illegal. Many illegals who have had previous arrests and numerous deportations only to return again with another alias. This is dangerous and never had to happen.

reply to post by pipconvert


ILLEGAL ALIEN is a legal term. It is also the proper term for the people you are referring to in your post. You try to slant it in a manner to make the reader sympathize with them. With 22% unemployment among legal citizens I have no sympathy. I resent them being here more than ever.

Tell them to go back home where such ugly words won't apply to them.

Okay, wow, you are taking the word "alien" out of context completely. In face the word alien originally referred to someone who has not acquired citizenship through naturalization in one country. The term alien, as in an Extra-Terrestrial, was based off of a visitor to this PLANET, who was not naturalized on this planet and visits.

The fact that you are taking the common term "alien" as a derogatory term just shows that you have no business in participating in an argument of such caliber.

You want to try a pathological argument of us "stepping in their own shoes"? Well heres my rebuttal. Imagine YOU have a house that has lived under the same rules for years and years. You wake up one day, and there is now another man in your house. Now being a hospitable fellow you allow him to stay, and even realize the potential his presence might bring. After a while this man now has a job, and could even be involved in illegal activity, and is not putting his money into helping pay for the things in your house, that you work so hard to pay for; your food, water, electricity. Despite him not contributing, when it comes time for you to elect someone who decides your house payments, bills, property taxes, all that, HE goes and votes for the man that will allow him to stay there.
Now he starts using your house for drug trades, you wake up one morning and he has brought 15 of his friends in to live with you. His kid goes to school with yours and is angry that the textbooks aren't multilingual, and he doesnt like how you refuse to adapt to his way of life in your house, so he celebrates his culture in your house and is angry when you go against it. Then one day he stops working, and checks for welfare begin to come to your house that have been taken from YOUR paycheck to pay him for not working, and where does his money go? Yah not to you. Now his child gets hurt, and goes to the hospital, and who now pays for this...
You call the police, and say "There is a man in my house and I want him to leave." The police either take him away, and he is back in 1 week, or they say they cannot move him out simply because he cant prove he doesnt belong there, and it is unfair to single him out cause anybody else could have somebody in their home, hes no acquired your rights.
And now the icing on the cake, your government wants to pass a law that makes him a citizen just for attending a 2 year college, that may not even teach in english. The amount of fake college IDs will skyrocket, boosting not only another illegal market but will keep him in your house under false pretenses. The bill says it is simply for immigrants/aliens under 16 years, but also includes any illegals that have arrived at that age in the past 15 years, giving around 5 million of the men that could come into your house, the right to stay there.

For god sakes, put yourself in your kids future shoes! The fact that we call them "aliens" is the least of the worries

Current Illegal Aliens in US: 23,130,530
Current Children of Illegals in US Schools: 5,241,780
Illegal Aliens in US Prisons: 437,566
Skilled Jobs held by Illegal Aliens: 11,914,028

From Wikipedia:en.wikipedia.org...

China
To encourage people to report foreigners living illegally in China, the police is giving a 100 RMB reward to whistleblowers whose information successfully leads an expulsion.[65]

India
he stated aim of the fence is to stop infiltration of terrorists, prevent smuggling, and to bring a close to illegal immigration from Bangladesh.[74][75]

Iran
The forceful evictions of the refugees, who have lived in Iran and Pakistan for nearly three decades, are part of the two countries' larger plans to repatriate all Afghan refugees within a few years

Malaysia
In January 2009 Malaysia banned the hiring of foreign workers in factories, stores and restaurants to protect its citizens from mass unemployment amid the global economic
crisis.

Mexico
In September 2007, Mexican President Calderón harshly criticized the United States government for the crackdown on illegal immigrants, saying it has led to the persecution of immigrant workers without visas. "I have said that Mexico does not stop at its border, that wherever there is a Mexican, there is Mexico", he said.

Now that is wonderful you complain about the illegal aliens and the Mexican government believe we are just part of their country

In October 2008, Mexico tightened its immigration rules and agreed to deport Cubans using the country as an entry point to the US. It also criticized U.S. policy that generally allows Cubans who reach U.S. territory to stay. Cuban Foreign Minister said the Cuban-Mexican agreement would lead to "the immense majority of Cubans being repatriated."[86]
Nepal

Now you may like to work for lower wages or lose out on a job because some one who does not follow our immigration laws is willing to do it for less because they live in a home or apt. in a way that is against code of 10 people in a 2 bedroom. I do not.

I do understand that economics is the major driver for these people to move here, but do it legal. If I break the law I go to jail and pay a fine. If I have more than one ID I go to jail not so for them.

The socialized system you so want to live in can not pay for extra people always moving in to use the system.

Give me a break stop illegal immigration and stop taking my money to pay for their needs or yours for that matter.

Just for the record, if you had to flee the US and entered Canada illegally you WOULD become an illegal immigrant or "illegal alien".

Alien refers to being alien to the country you are in, not alien to the planet.

Originally posted by pipconvert
Alright, this is just a vent I had to get out there. I am really getting sick and tired of illegal immigrants being labeled as illegal aliens. Who cares? Well, put yourself in these people's shoes for a second. Say you have to flee the US, in order to survive, towards the north and are not authorized to immigrate Canada on a legal basis. You would still try to get in by any means if it meant 'staying alive'. How would you like to be labeled an illegal alien? Why this alien notion anyway, we're all human beings and so are illegal immigrants. It's not because they don't have 'official' GOVERNMENT documents that it makes them less worthy of being a human being, am I wrong?

Yes illegal immigration is a problem but do you really think that degrading these people to a lower 'species' is the way to solve the issue? Doesn't immigration defeat the idea of having a planet that belongs to the whole of humanity? Except if you're an illegal alien of course…

What really ticks me off is to hear such 'illegal alien' statements from people and officials who are themselves immigrants. Think about it, all non-native american people are ORIGINALLY immigrants. So, basically, it was all peachy for your great great great grand-parents to immigrate to the States and get a better life but hell for those "illegal aliens" who are trying to do the same thing in the 21st century.

REALITY CHECK PEOPLE, PLEASE!

First of all, I don't know of a single poor American who can afford to leave the Country. It costs a lot of money to have a stolen identity and false documents, so these illegals are not as poor you believe them to be. Not only that, I don't know of a single illegal that I have known who hasn't sent money back to their own country. Poor citizens can't afford to send money to anyone, anywhere.

All countries protect their borders or should. Without secured borders, you are allowing diseases to enter the country because there is no health check. You are allowing murderers, thieves, gangs, pedophiles etc. into the country because there are no background checks. So the planet belonging to all of humanity, well yeah, but we have laws for a reason, not because we lack compassion.

Yes we are all immigrants, even the Native Americans traveled here from somewhere. Once laws were in place, people went through the proper chanels to become legal citizens. They respected our laws and didn't expect any special treatment. They learned our language and were grateful to be here. Now, we have to speak spanish in many areas just to get hired for a simple factory job in our own Country. Being a melting pot of cultures, no other immigrant illegal or otherwise has put us in that position.

There are many illegals who have had many years to come clean and become a citizen and chose not to. Why do you think that is?

As for this century, we are no longer the land of opportunity. When an illegal immigrant can come and take a job that should be there for its own citizen, recieve all kinds of benefits through deciet, there is a huge problem. When our own citizens are paying their tax dollars to help an illega; have their needs met, while their own are not...that is a huge problem.

It has gotten out of hand. I applied for a job as a "night watchman." One of the questions they asked me was, "are you bilingual." I said no. They said "thank you for coming in." I had to know spanish because they were afraid most of the employees wouldn't understand English directions in case of an emergency.

I have seen colleges add Spanish to their Criminal Justice degreee requirements. One local city has added basic Spanish classes to their police academy. Another college added the same courses to their Basic Law Enforcement Training program. The non-English speaking population has grown to the point that the police were having trouble even taking reports or investigating crime.

I have said on another thread that I am related to some one that came here illegally more than 30 years ago. They went back home and did it properly. So, I have no problem with hispanics coming to this country. What I have a problem with is people coming here illegally and refusing to even try to learn the language or intigrate. What I have a problem with is people coming here and living in third world conditions so that they can send money home. All the while they are dragging down the working wages and conditions. I have a problem with people coming here to make a better living by selling drugs, kidnapping, and gaming the system. We have enough problems allready. We don't need others adding to them.

I have a problem with some one telling me that the south western US is part of Aztlan and that they do not have to recognize our culture or laws. I have had a member of La Raza (the advocacy group) tell me this. They told me they would march in the streets untill Aztlan was returned to those with a true claim to the lands. According to them Mexicans are the only ones that should be living in Texas, New Mexico, California, Arizona, or Colorado. According to them the fact that most Hispanics are mixed with European Spanish is of, "no consequence." I have a lot of trouble with some one telling me that my European heritage means I am an imperialist murderer, but their's is of "no consequence."

As others have said your understanding of the word alien is completely wrong. However, you need to look at why people feel the way they do. You also need to look at what is really happening in places like Arizona and Texas. You also need to look at the story of Don Alejo Garza and ask yourself if that is what you want to see happening in America.

Don't over complicate the situation. In reality every American is an illegal immigrant. Sealing up the borders is a double edged sword.

I am as far away from the border as can be and we have huge problems with illegals. It isn't just a border problem, it is everywhere.

For those who keep harping on everyone being illegal, since the time Countries have had laws, there have been people immigrating who abide by those laws with respect. None of my ancestors are illegal. If you want open borders, suffer the consequences.

reply to post by pipconvert


No I would not, I needn't either as they are very highly accepting of IT professionals emmigrating from the USA. Also I have no drug use in my entire life nor a criminal record and I'm a hard worker and don't get myself into situations of breaking the law, nor do I smuggle drugs or murder or belong to a cartail.... That is what makes me different than an illegal alien. Also I know how to speak their language as well as English, yes I do Parlez francais! Ok... and I would drum up the money to legally gain citizenship, because that is how a normal human being would do it!!!!

reply to post by pipconvert

Ok, well if you are going to make an argument like that, perhaps we should boil it down to a more personal argument, and at its base value that would affect everyone all around. Take out the terms, take out the ideas and concepts of country and illegal immigrants. Take all that away and lets move it down to the most basic level. You live in a house, most of us do, and probably have a yard. Now would it be fair if someone came into your yard and left it a mess? Would you be upset? How would you just clean it up, knowing that they will do it again? How about if they used your resources, possibly raising your bill up, would that be fair? How about if they camped out in your yard, would you leave them there to stay as long as they desire? Mind you that you are not getting anything for the use of the property that you are responsible for. Would it matter if you or your family were exposed to something dangerous or life threatening, would it matter then? What if it got cold, could you handle them coming inside and using your house, eating your food and making it harder for you to live there? How about a total stranger took your id, posed as you to get a job, that might pay better than the one that you have, would you just write it off, or would you demand action?
How about the trip to get there, do you think it is fair that they would have to endure all sorts of human rights violations all to get to where you live, do you think it is right that they have to pay, and possibly get killed along the way?
Think about it in that terms. It is not immigration, rather it is that people are coming into the country, and breaking the laws, that if we, ourselves, violated, would get thrown in jail for. We live in a country and expect equal treatment under the law, yet why is it that a group, who breaks the laws, get away without so much as jail time or any sort of punishment.
Boarders are there, as they define where one culture stops and another begins, along with the laws and social customs of that country. The illegal immigrants that are coming into the country are acting like refugees, but the problem is that both good and bad are coming into the country. We can not allow just anyone into the country. We can not continue on the way we are going, as the country can not afford an influx of people, at the same time, we can not be so heartless as to deny the dream to everyone. There has to be balance, and at the same time, those coming here, should want to be here, to help improve their lives and the communities they live in.