The Danger of WikiLeaks: Why the organization could be doing more harm than good

reply to post by airspoon

Great post, airspoon, you brought up some good points. The thing that sucks is that it would be extremely difficult to prove any of it. Part of me agrees that we should question these releases and not automatically assume that they are truthful, but another part wants them to be true because I'd like to know what's going on with our government, and yet another part of me is afraid of the national security/diplomacy issues that may arise because of the leaks. As you can see, I'm slightly torn. Anyway, thanks for the post, it definitely got me thinking.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by Fiberx

 

I think that's the point, they are incredibly genius. In fact, they are arguably the most genius organization on the planet, seeing how they attract only the brightest people with an unlimited amount of resources. Why You may be sales clerk, police officer or mail-carrier (thus know your job perfectly), they are intelligence professionals and do this kind of thing for a living. It is their job!

--airspoon

The CIA recruits the most idiotic people on the planet... those willing to follow orders regardless of what they are. They also support property theft since their organization (the CIA) is funded by taking people's money without their permission. I guess you could call it a diabolical sort of fool's genius.

reply to post by ParkerCramer


No, you have it wrong. What you are suggesting I'm saying, I'm not. I shouldn;t really even be responding as this point has been made several times already and apparently even understood by most. However, I'll take the time to respond to you anyway.

you seem to say that the biggest danger is that we expect wiki-leaks to solve all of our problems, and answer all the questions.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Reread sections two and three.

so, far i have not seen a post that would lead you to believe that. we are wise enough to know that we did not get here overnight, and we wouldn't expect to have all the solutions overnight. but, we will take what we can get, and if it is some genuine, mixed in with some disinfo, then so be it.

Well then you haven't looked. Here: www.abovetopsecret.com... , and that's only after taking two seconds to look. They are all around. Furthermore, regardless of those posts and independent of this latest dump, many people are making the claims if the government was really up to something WL would have exposed it. That really is the mind-set of the masses, like it or not.

you also said we do not know if it is authenic or true?????????? are you serious?? do you see the response thatis coming from TPTB??

I don't know the level of truth and neither do you. First of all, the response from government has been light, at least compared with other things and it has been extremely innefective. Furthermore, if it is disinformation, of course they are going to pretend like they care.

So, Are you serious??? Is that logic really that much over your head?

now, to cover your point that WK is a "DUMP SITE". to believe this you would have to believe that wk is smart enough to keep their site up and running during these somewhat turbulant times, but, yet not smart enough to sift through some of the bull they recieve....???

First of all, WL is a dump site and that isn;t really debated. Are you trying to suggest that Wikileaks isn't an org that entices people to dump classified info? How do you think they then get their data? Are you serious?

Furthermore, what does keeping a site running have to do with anything? It doesn't. There really is no viable way for WL to viably authenticate what is coming through, other than to maybe check the indentity of those sending information to validate their access. However, if the government wanted to abuse WL, they wouldn't sally that works at the corner store, they would send information from the government to WL, thus the extent of validation would certainly be met. So if the government wanted leak disinformation, they could do so as anyone else would, though with a lot of credibility.

so, are you saying these documents are fake??? of no importance?? disruptive to national security??

They very well could be disinformation and the point is not whether they are or aren't disinformation. The point is that it could be and there would be no way for us to know whether they are, to include you. Furthermore, the likelihood that disinformation is released through WL is extremely high. If I had to put money on it, I would say that disinformation would be mixed in with real information, as to give it much more credibility, after all that is the best way to propagate disinfo.

Furthermore, I am suggesting that this information is not of importance, relatively speaking, yes. We already have many people arguing that the government is not up to anything because of this latest dump. Are you kidding me? Using WL to validate government corruption is ridiculous at best.

i think you need to pick a position and try to stick with it through out the entire thread..

Maybe comprehension skills need to be reassessed? Are you kidding me? My position has remained the same, not only through-out this thread, but through out my membership here at ATS. It is your apparent comprehension skills (or lack thereof) that seems to be decieving you.

Get with the program or don't. reread if you have to but it generally isn't a wise idea to pretend expertise when you clearly don't even understand the OP point. It is okay to ask if you don't understand and I will gladly help you understand.

--airspoon

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

It really doesn't matter what's contained within documents or leaks, as there isn't really a way to validate most of it anyway. We wouldn't be able to tell if it's disinformation or not. Furthermore, it doesn't account for the many red flags listed in the OP (as well as the red flags not listed), or the situational aspects of WL itself.

--airspoon

The same thing is true of all genuine US government documents. You don't know if its just all a fairy tale or what. The US government rests on a foundation of lies. So no, I don't give a damn if their reputation is damaged. That is a natural consequence of forced method of transparency and they well deserve it. Maybe next time they'll be open and honest so this kind of thing does not have to happen in the future. The upside of Wikileaks dramatically outweighs the tiny downside. So they were snooping on the UN. Like China & Russia are not doing that too? Come on.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
For all we know the whole wikileaks enterprise is a Intelligence Community/Law Enforcement front to ensnare Goverment and Military Employees leaking low level information and what gets put out from Wikilinks are things the government wants revealed in some larger waging of asymmetrical warfare, both domestically and abroad.

Very cogent point.

Consider:
Was it just "coincidence" that the US very recently announced the Cyberwarfare division was open and ready to go? Or that the government recently took down dozens of websites in a single day? Yet they can't shut down Wikileaks? Nonsense!

If they wanted Assange stopped he would be dead or discredited by now. If he's not a threat he's an asset.

If they discredit or destroy Wikileaks they simply have another organization pop up to take its place overnight, just like with file-sharing website shut-downs. That is what keeps Wikileaks from getting shut down.

Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by Fiberx

 

I think that's the point, they are incredibly genius. In fact, they are arguably the most genius organization on the planet, seeing how they attract only the brightest people with an unlimited amount of resources. Why You may be sales clerk, police officer or mail-carrier (thus know your job perfectly), they are intelligence professionals and do this kind of thing for a living. It is their job!

--airspoon

Correct So much a Genius that the CIA Most Secrets Dirty Work is Looped and Jump Through Hoops to One Place to Another ! as is 1963 They were close to Extinction ! and We all know what Year Followed! That Tragedy in NOVEMBER! of 1963 Right!

Speaking of Trusting The Government
One Man Did Until he saw what was Behind the Curtain of Who and What Runs This Country and this a Man that Was so much Dedicated to His Country that he Join a High Military Elite and Thought he was Doing things Right (In the Dust Cloud) then Much Later he Climbed the Ranks of being One of the Highest State Political Official (Jesse Ventura ) as There's Alot of Others from this Nation , Canada & Europe are Coming Out of the Skeleton Closest..

I Tend to Believe Movie Makers Tend to Exposing Half Truths of this that are Planed Ahead as they were told to put in their movies for preparation? that was Leaked by a (MR-X) ?
or is it Some Movie Makers are part of those Secret Society's

The World is a Chess Board! and a Dirty Swindle Bicker Dealing Court Room! What i Mean is If you Open Your Mind On Watching The House Representatives/Senate ,House of Congress The House Commons Watch the Body Language the Gestures !& The Dealing Being Made ..
Perfect Example is Iran Contra Affair = Oliver North

Something Like this ! when a Deal are Made in the Court Room

Thief (1981) Part 6.0 (2/10)
( Please skip to the 2:14 Mark ) Courtroom Scene )



Seriously You People Dont think those Type of Actions does not Go through in the Higher Courts ?
Gestures or Silenced ! Silenced like the Video Below

Oliver North Questioned - Rex 84 Exposed During Iran Contra


Well I Love to see this Fictional (Onion) Become a Reality!

Alien Invasion!!!!!!! ,, Contagious Zombie Disease Scare ?


Illuminati Warning: Martial Law Plans Revealed? Twitter: TheHumanati

the general population should just be left in the dark like sheep. most can't grasp what is really going on anyway. just like they can't grasp the truth behind governments and what's beyond earth.
even the people who post here. they are so caught up between "democrats and republicans", which only serves to polarize and separate people. politics in the US is just a big game.

We used to have organizations like Wikileaks in the past. They was called The Press.

Wikileaks fills an important void left by the wholesale takeover of the media, imo.

reply to post by airspoon


"Look, even if WL itself has good intentions, there is nothing stopping WL from being used as a tool to spread disinfo by the government. In fact, it would be absolutely foolish of us to think that the government would jump on this oppurtunity that would take little to no effort to do so. Therefore, what little and measly info that is leaked, could just as well be disinformation and kicking us several steps back in our quest for truth." quote from Airspoon.

To the OP,
Are you now saying then, that while these cable leaks are genuine, (and so far nobody is denying them as being anything but genuine even if they are a bit more than embarassing) and that any more leaks by Wiki might not be genuine, but planted info for Wiki to grab onto? If so, who is going to allow themselves to be be the patsys next time around? Not Nelson Mandela, Not Col. Gaddaffi or prince Andrew, (his cameo is really interesting and is not trivial) would there be a theme change by these "brilliant" intel men. In your 9/11 thread you dealt with facts in that they were witness testimony, and quotes from members of the 9/11 committee etc, all very good and a good thread. This one is in the realm of hearsay and supposition and does not quite gel with the fact that governments around the world are going nuts, and they still don't know all that was actually stolen on hard copy.

So this is one predictable announcement from one politician,

"Republican congressman Peter King has called for extreme measures to deal with the organisation"

Yeah right, "whatever it takes"! not only that, they have been going nuts for the months they already knew about the nicked cables. Maybe that is where you should concentrate your talents, what else has been going on in the months before yesterdays release of the cables that might actually have affected you and me?

What has been released by wikileaks is nothing.

What's been released is probably already known by all intelligence agencies. Those people are SMARTER than 99% of the wold. They KNOW THINGS. Even if they don't know it, then can probably imagine it and plan ahead.

It poses no threat to national security anywhere and other governments know it.



Military technology, on the other hand, is the real deal. If China can get a hold of the B-2 plans that Israel almost sold to them for $2 bil, then that could pose as a "threat."

But that's not really even a threat that can break the world in half and send it into despair.



SO COWARDS NEED TO CALM THE HECK DOWN.

Airspoon, you make some good arguments, but here is my take on the situation.

1) NATIONAL SECURITY. Nobody seems to be denying the information presented thus far, so I will assume that its true for the sake of argument, and my argument is that if the truth hurts our national security, because our government is not acting in the best interests of America or of the American people, then I say, to hell with the government.
For example, if it is proven that we torture, or allow torture, or practice rendition, then that information should be made public to stop these transgressions against human rights and the Geneva Convention.
Also, it is pretty evident, from reading the dispatches, that the plan is/was to allow Israel to strike Iran by years end.
Again, this is contrary to the agreement that we have as far as our military support for Israel, we give them weapons for defense, not offense.

2) DISINFORMATION. - Nobody is disputed the information thus far, however you make a very good point, in that this entire episode may be a dis-information campaign. So, it is going to be very easy to figure out if this is disinformation. For example, no matter what happens, someone profits. That has been my experience in life, always follow the money. And so far, there have been lots of messages to lots of countries, but I haven't seen any to the Israeli's. So far, a lot of messages have confirmed, the best things, that the Israeli's could want to tell the world, like other countries wanting a strike against Iran. Hmmmm.....
Should we strike Iran? I would prefer diplomacy, but that's just me, but we all know Israel wants to strike Iran, and it just so happens, that we got a lot of countries, Arab countries, that agree.

So, yeah we got of documents, but are there any documents not getting released?

3) SCOPE - in most cases, in only need to squint and barely open your eyes, to know which way the horses are running around the track. Likewise, just scratching the surface, usually leads to a certain direction that we can see that our leaders want to take us, especially when we combine the information with our leaders publicly stated agenda. Most of us are pretty good at reading between the lines.


Only time will tell, because they still got mountains of documents to release in the next few months.

But you know they are going to somehow turn this event, into an attack on OUR FREE SPEECH by claiming that the internet needs to be censored.

And I got a sneaking suspicion, that we will be getting the password to the "INSURANCE" file before this is over with.

So I can't agree with you entirely at this juncture, but six months from now, hindsight will be 20/20.

Just my opinion.

Human beings need to start thinking with their hearts not their minds, once you are on this path of heart you can instantly discern disinformation. The shift starts within first, wikileaks is just information it is what you are going to do about this information that is the important part of this...heart over mind....time to do humans, enough talk............

If a country cannot be transparent, it is not run by the people for the people. Its run for the people by a select few shady people whom will hide the truth in the name of democracy and freedom.

If they didn't want the other countries to find out what they really think, perhaps they shouldn't be flapping their gums unnecessarily through official cables, which the taxpayers pay for and own.

Why anyone would argue for the government, that preaches transparency, truth, justice and freedom about wikileaks telling the truth is beyond me and is a total oxy-moron to say the VERY least.

This is a security problem? All the secrets and lies coming out? What the heck kind of freakin age do we live in where truth can be buried, and justice never served?
Hypocrites, all of ya'll who think Wikileaks does damage.
Its these damn world governments that take us into stupid goddamn religious wars and ppl wanna blame the truth-tellers? Shame on all of you who think Wikileaks is a security issue, shame goddamn shame.

I am ashamed to be a westerner. We are nothing but colonialists with a hidden agenda to rule the world. Plain and simple.

So are you saying it is okay to cover up the lies and corruption of the diplomats representing the american people?







As someone pointed out, don't shoot the messenger, deal with the message.



I prefer risking the Truth do some collateral damage than allow Lies to bring wars worldwide.

THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS THIS -

First all suspend your disbelief, that Julian hasn't been "suicided" by now, and take what he says at face value, that these are legit documents and he just wants to expose the truth.

Then consider, that the media is being instructed by the government to only report on certain documents.
Anybody who thinks the Main Stream Media is not really the State Run Media is sadly mistake.

So with those two "facts" in mind, I ask you, What is the MSM reporting on?

Do they report, that it is pretty much a fact, that our government was going to allow Israel to strike Iran before year's end?

Or do they tell the sheeple, that Merkle is made of teflon, and Karzai is paranoid.

People on this site, will dig and find the truth, but the sheeple only know what they see on television.

Originally posted by Baldur

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet
We have brought harm onto us, the TRUTH however it hurts, whatever harms it may bring, are less of a burden than lies, half truth, and reality engineering.

The one that plays with fire get burned, its that simple.
Do good you will get a plentiful harvest, do bad, you will get excrement for fruit, do worse than bad, well, you get the idea...

It will come, and we will remember forever.


If wikileaks is evil and a false front, then it will get it, on the other hand, if the US is evil and a false front, it will also get it, if not then there is nothing to worry about, is there?

edit on 29-11-2010 by TheOneEyedProphet because: (no reason given)

Wrong. The world works through cause and effect, not magical 'good and evil'. The world is full of many grays, there is no 'black and white'. Evil wins against good, sometimes, so does good win against evil and grey win against all or none.

Every action has a reaction and intent is separate from both cause and effect. The end may not justify the means, but the morality influences the means, not the end.

Every action has a reaction and intent is separate from both cause and effect. The end may not justify the means, but the morality influences the means, not the end.



I couldn't agree more, I couldn't disagree more, you see the whole cause and effect is still a matter of discussion, and the more we understand about reality the more we question just what the heck is really going on, fractal dimensions, neurological pathways made of silicon and a thousand other variables , make the saying: "The exception defines the rule" possible one of the wisest things spoken ever, now regarding the morality issue, then where do we draw the line?

I mean is the whole US vs THEM thing that makes me want to vomit, there is ONLY ONE planet earth, we are humans BEFORE we are American, or Ethiopian, or member of the commonwealth, the US got to where it stood before right at the top by being a ruthless enforcer of "morality values" it had to end someday, the rest of the world HAS to react to this sooner or later, or else the curtain is getting pulled , and we will find out everything was not what it seemed to be, that some thing are not as simple as millions of shades of gray, but something else entirely opposite of what we could imagine.

Who pulls the strings is for me the real question, and why are they doing this my concern...
whats next, UFO disclosure???

Quality.
'Drop the facts of alien contact now Assange
And BP's leak; it's all there in the hour-glass.'

www.youtube.com...

...and the never-ending search continues...

Very interesting points and angles.

But, maybe Wikileaks is just what it claims to be. Perhaps its just as simple as that, leaked information being exposed.
I am going to stay open minded on both arguments. Let's wait till the full release is out and the weeks and months to digest it.

People, especially on ATS, are so used to viewing a situation from mutliple complex angles, and although probably justified most of the time, some of the time the simplest explanation is correct.

Its just like speculating what the "sports team" is going to do and what tactics they are going to use.

On the face of it, it seems that thanks to Wikileaks existence, the [truth] is coming to public view about govt operations.

As for liberty and security, I don't see these as functions of the current mindset of humanity. In a way we are still immature on the consciousness level, so as long as we continue in the current overall system and state of human mind, nothing will change.

Perhaps the internet medium and organisations like Wikileaks, ATS, and many others serve the information and enlightnment purpose, so that the human mind will begin realising and awakening to the current reality, and yearn for something better, freer and real.

Just a thought....

Information and knowledge is power.

Interesting read. A flag for you sir. I do find it strange that the mainstream media would allow such rampant exposure to supposedly "classified" documents when we all know that "they" control the media. How is it that Assange hasn't been assassinated? If he posed such a threat, Assange would have committed suicide by now.

Wait....

Mr 9/11 truth is concerned about OUR national security because of "leaked information"?

Are these leaks suddenly confirming to you the existence of Terrorists and bad people in the world? You know, the ones the government "made up"?