What does symbolism do to you?

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by network dude

 

I totally agree. We are the third pillar. Most of what I've written in this message is wasted as people will gloss over it and not understand what I've written. But I've laid out many of the secrets of the ages... a stoning offense in most ages.

edit on 29-11-2010 by pianopraze because: spelling and grammar

Or they will see in it what they want to see in it. No one can prevent that. Once someone's mind is made up, it cannot be easily changed (as modern psychology has proven recently).

You know, when thinking of it that way, knowing that the purpose of an initiatory experience is to blow the initiate's mind makes a lot more sense. It makes room for re-imprinting.

Originally posted by Cobra.EXE
the only symbols that adversly effect people are sigils.

www.freewebs.com...

Those Mythos-related sigils look to be created with the magick sqare technique. Nothing wrong with that, it works and gets results. One doesn't need to tie into the Mythos to use them, though.

There are lots of other sigils out there, however. They're simple to make and easy to charge and fire. Heck, some were made back in the day by people throwing paint on one another and slamming their bodies off of a huge canvas until they passed out from pain and exertion.

Here is a good Sigil Magick 101 page if you are curious.

Originally posted by Majestic23
Wait, nearly all the major comanies have this same symbolism you say, Pepsi and BP send thousands on sacred geometry! And on the dollar bill! And all the secret societies and government agencies too? And its like on those pyramid shared things in Egypt Get outta town......it sounds like some kinda.......I unno.........conspiracy!

Have you ever read Grant Morrison's essays on corporate logos and sigil magick? He discussed the connections between the two and it turns out that they're not all that different.

Here's the essay and if you scroll down to the header "Viral Sigils" you'll find what I'm talking about.

I'd also like to point out that this essay implies that one can practice sigil magick without realizing it. Symbols crop up everywhere one looks because they're the fundamental unit of transmitting information. Belief implies attention; as the adage has it "Energy flows where attention goes." Thus, if enough people focus their attention for a wihle on someone's symbol (say, when picking out clothing), a little energy transmitted by a few thousand people at a time adds up... we call it magick, they call it marketing, some other group calls it set dressing.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Ok heres a hard and crazy question , does anyone have answer to it?
What happens if someone has an the eye symbol a weird one with a arrow symbol next to it? in the right hand?

Your description is a little dodgy. Could you be more specific?

What kind of arrow? What kind of eye (uidjot eye?)

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Extant Taxon

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Conspiracies have become somewhat mainstream. If Jessie Ventura can have a TV show about conspiracies that goes for more than 1 episode, I think that proves it. So given that the public digs conspiracies, the media engine can use that to their advantage. And the smart ones already have. Namely JZ and the others mentioned in your post. Yep, whatever shoes sell the best will be worn by all.

As usual, your insight is 4 dimensional.

Not sure if my insight is "4 dimensional" (that would perhaps require transcending the human condition itself...) but I do see a need to challenge a degree of dogma when it comes to one of the main tenets of conspiracy theory.
I think that occult symbolism is being used, as a language of sorts, and that the people speaking it may be saying totally different things with it, and for many applications...
Often the application is crass and backward today, especially in the mainstream entertainment industry.

Originally posted by Majestic23

This is a very lax concept and one that comes instantly to mind when we see the prevalence of such symbolism. It does not explain why it has been around for so long though does it? Or the clear process of initiation some unwary idols fall into.

Are you saying Jay-Z is not in the secret societies and is just interested or playing up? Possible, but it does not explain how his lyrics suggest higher knowledge and premonition of events or how convenient it is to have such a noxious group of people control such a large chunk of pop culture, it does not explain why quite talentless people are worshipped. It does not explain why they take to playing their world stage parts so well "Kanye playing the joker".

I felt some need to expand on my previous answer, so here it is:

I find that the laxity comes into play when a single take on the reason such potent esoteric symbolism features in the mainstream then becomes codified, letting no alternative perspective in. Not saying that this is so in your case, just within conspiracy circles in general.
The reason I am highly suspicious of the idea you put forward is that it's so prevalent within the conspiracy community, particularly those fully involved in the Christian Right's battle aginst the occult/New Age/Gnosticism, and that it comes from a place that has (ironically) a strictly dualistic view. Black and white. Us and them. Polarised dilemmas that stultify more complex or less cosmic, more pragmatic, worldviews.
The possibilities as to why such symbolic content is so widespread these days are probably multiplicitous.

The key to my notion that many personnel within the music industry, especially, are using such themes in a highly cynical, denigrated fashion is evidenced by the very same. That they devalue such potent iconography, denigrate it, and make it tawdry, ego-driven,superficial, and corporatised. It morphs from a primal code that speaks to the unconscious mind in ways ineffable and slides into being just another way of representing greed and rampant corporate excess.

The tool that symbolic language is is merely neutral, and the intent behind much of it may indeed be to dominate and control the world in a corporate sense, but those who employ it have no grand magickal grimoire to circumscribe the globe, square the circle, and seal it with a planet-wide sigil; they just have have a twenty year business plan, blue chip stocks, share forecasts, financial advisors, and the ability to cloak themselves with whatever meme will most likely become the norm.

Conspiracy theory as entertainment, conspiratainment, is now mainstream like never before and a lucrative market. The average conspiracy buff who with a generic cosmic monolithic theory as to who is dominating the world, suppressing their consciousness, enslaving humanity, and laying out revelation of the method cryptocratic mocking of the victim to all and sundry, can never comprehend that it may all be done just to sell more useless s**t to the consumer, and in that everything they fear is true by proxy.
The inhuman face of the corporate, fascist superstate rules O.K., where power is exercised through indviduals, not by them.

The other thing is if esoteric symbols are a language of sorts how can we be sure that those using it even understand what is being said (other than using it as a marketing ploy) and why should we think that what may be being communicated is the same, single message?
We are all using the English language here, but are saying very different things to each other based on varied perspectives and knowledge.

The other idea I would present, as a thought experiment, is that the base archetypes expressed through the use of symbolism, may be exercising power through the very people that employ them, who knows what may be acting on them in a metaphysical sense. Plato once said that men are toys in the hands of ideas (archetypes)....

Who is in control? Is anyone? The latter question many conspiracy theorists fear more than anything I think.

Just some, you know, food for thought.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
The only secrets we have are the handshakes & passwords, and some aspects of the specific rituals themselves. All of us here are ready and willing to talk about our own interpretations of the philosophies, symbologies, and what we've learned. If you're interested in a discussion, but don't want to derail an existing thread, feel free to start one of your own here, and I guarantee the participation of at least a half-dozen Masons. (No promises we'll agree with each other, but that's part of the fun...)

So the Mason's have not kept the secrets of sacred geometry and mystery school symbolism?

Maybe there is a disconnect from this knowledge in the majority of members and lodges... but Mason's have plenty of secrets. I look at your avatar and understand what the hidden hand means... is that not a secret you keep?

I might just take up your challenge and start a thread, I've been thinking about it for a while but didn't know how to approach it

Originally posted by network dude
as I said, I agree that they exist. I don't know why there are there. But how have the affected you? What do they do to other people? What about the billions of other people? Does it make them submissive to the Illuminati? Does it make them passive and not question authority? If so, how is it that this site is full of people who aren't passive and do question authority? These people have seen the symbols as well.

I am intrigued by the interest in these things. I would like to know why people fear them.

Asked/answered over and over by several people now. Sigil magic is being used through mass media to influence culture. We do not know the agenda or the meaning of each sigil, just detect it's presence and object to the changes in our culture that is being wrought. Some are blaming Masons because Masonic symbols are being incorporated, but most realize it's not the upstanding people at the lodge in their home town but a cabal who hold sway over the entertainment industry.

Satanic and Esoteric and Masonic symbolism are being used, but I think those doing this only see it as means to an end and use the gestalt sigils for control. I think those in the intermediary might believe in it, but those at the top are only interested and believe in control. The lie is different at every level. And the imprint of their will is the essence of magic; wither their rituals work or not, their will is being worked.

Most people do not realize that Holly Wood was used in the making of magic wands that the Druids used to cast magic spells on the audiences of their rituals. Movie magic made in Hollywood is real magic. These magicians think that the more people they can get to view their rituals the more power they have. They also believe if people see the rituals and don't understand them they have more power. So the awards shows have been turned into initiations and magical workings on a scale never seen in history. I can not speak to the efficacy of magic, but I can speak that these people believe it and are propagating it.

Look down the page at "Pink's Masonic Initiation" and you should see a VERY familiar outfit...
vigilantcitizen.com...

Originally posted by DoubleNickels
Or they will see in it what they want to see in it. No one can prevent that. Once someone's mind is made up, it cannot be easily changed (as modern psychology has proven recently).

You know, when thinking of it that way, knowing that the purpose of an initiatory experience is to blow the initiate's mind makes a lot more sense. It makes room for re-imprinting.

True. People will always see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear irregardless of the actual purpose and intent of your words.

Shock/trauma... like what is affected in Masons at the moment of the revelation of light and the accompanying sound (Masons should understand without me giving away to those who haven't studied) is just such an example.

Trauma creates a change in behavior. It is a form of mind manipulation or control (not talking about Masons). This is why TPTB want us in fear all the time. Traumatized and fearful people are easier to control. The answer is peace and love, something you will not find in the mass media. You cannot control someone who is not afraid. Those that fear not the loss of property or life can not be controlled. 911 is being used to control people. I don't know wither they initiated or passively allowed or had nothing to do with it. But they are using it.

Originally posted by DoubleNickels
Those Mythos-related sigils look to be created with the magick sqare technique. Nothing wrong with that, it works and gets results. One doesn't need to tie into the Mythos to use them, though.

There are lots of other sigils out there, however. They're simple to make and easy to charge and fire.

Here is a good Sigil Magick 101 page if you are curious.

Excellent post. *Star*

If people have not understood what we were saying before they should read this link. Corporate logos and mass media incorporate powerful gestalts in their sigils and doubly charge them.

reply to post by Extant Taxon


Wow the cognitive dissonance in this post is amazing!

You should be in the entertainment industry



For those that don't know or understand cognitive dissonance here is an excellent postexplaining it and an example of an ignorant conspiratanmentist at work *wink*

reply to post by pianopraze


first off, I think you may not fully understand masons. You may have studied masonry, but the individual seems to be lost. The average mason is a good family man who has a good job. He goes to some meetings, he may have been or is involved in the lodge as an officer. Some may even be past masters. But most of them don't think too much farther than what they were initially taught. They probably know most of the obligations by heart, and know most of the ritual. But they aren't super informed on all aspects of occultism. Some are in it for the charity. On this site there is more than a few masons who are extremely knowledgeable about most things masonic and occult. So not everyone is going to know the secrets you think they should. If zero was the guy who just does charity and 100 was the super knowledgeable guy, I would put myself at about 20 looking for 100. If I had to put people in a box of high level and low level masons, I would be low level and I would put Masonic Light as a high level.

your link to that site was very interesting. Pink's initiation was nice. I especially liked the pastie. That was entertainment using a reference to the occult, namely masonry. Pink is not a mason. She has one fatal flaw. (what is underneath that pastie) Most of those references are trying very hard to find some hidden meaning in things that don't have any hidden meaning. (IMHO) It's there for the people who find a conspiracy in their box of corn flakes because one flake looks like balphamet. They have a special place for those people. It's called ATS.

Originally posted by network dude

first off, I think you may not fully understand masons. You may have studied masonry, but the individual seems to be lost. The average mason is a good family man who has a good job. He goes to some meetings, he may have been or is involved in the lodge as an officer. Some may even be past masters. But most of them don't think too much farther than what they were initially taught. They probably know most of the obligations by heart, and know most of the ritual. But they aren't super informed on all aspects of occultism. Some are in it for the charity. On this site there is more than a few masons who are extremely knowledgeable about most things masonic and occult. So not everyone is going to know the secrets you think they should. If zero was the guy who just does charity and 100 was the super knowledgeable guy, I would put myself at about 20 looking for 100. If I had to put people in a box of high level and low level masons, I would be low level and I would put Masonic Light as a high level.

your link to that site was very interesting. Pink's initiation was nice. I especially liked the pastie. That was entertainment using a reference to the occult, namely masonry. Pink is not a mason. She has one fatal flaw. (what is underneath that pastie) Most of those references are trying very hard to find some hidden meaning in things that don't have any hidden meaning. (IMHO) It's there for the people who find a conspiracy in their box of corn flakes because one flake looks like balphamet. They have a special place for those people. It's called ATS.

We agree more than we disagree in all this, and I have repeatedly acknowledge the average Mason is as you state. I am having fun debating. I hope my tone does not offend. Please take all my statements as presenting a lively, and to me fun, debate.

You are on this site representing Freemasonry. Freemasonry has encoded in it the mystery and esoteric teaching of the ages. Your ignorance of these truths in no way negates the presence of these truths. Maybe I understand, due to hours of study, some aspects of the esoteric elements of Masonry better than the average Mason.

You argue there is nothing secret here when these secrets are encoded into Masonry. Masons use these symbols as a language to express and propagate these esoteric truths. Maybe you don't understand what is being said, but the Masons who created all the statues and buildings around the world sure did (or those Masons at the top, controlling the projects).

The average Christian does not know a lot about Christianity. This means very little when that Christian stands up representing Christianity and speaks in a forum like this. Hopefully when he is confronted with truths about the Christian history and tradition he doesn't say... but I didn't know, so can't be held accountable for the knowledge I was never taught... as a Christian and apologist on this forum he very well is, and might want to study to show himself approved. Just because he doesn't know what a solar messiah is does not exempt him from being lambasted with it if he wants to stand in proxy and represent Christianity

So to argue that there are no esoteric meanings because you have not learned them is a postulate that cannot be defended. Many of the things I am referencing are from books I found as suggested reading on masonic non-recruiting, recruiting sites

We are answering your question about what symbols do to you.

Those that DO understand these symbols and how to use them are using them to control the populous. If you think that there is nothing more than a box of cornflakes going on at the VMA... Frankly, I find THAT flakey. *sorry couldn't resist the pun*

I am, in some ways, jealous of your position. You are in a position to get inside and study and understand. You have access to a wealth of information that has been passed down for millennia. I am not sure I want to take the step of initiation and be bound by those oaths and pay those dues. But I am studying and trying to make since of these in a vacuum, where you have a structure that will teach you if you so choose.

The more I study the more respect I have of Freemasonry.

And I'm calling you out to go deeper and learn more the fascinating tradition you represent

As a fun aside. Did you know that the deck of cards we use is a rendition of the Tarot deck? And that someone put those bees on the ace of Spades for a reason? There ARE hidden meanings behind the seemingly innocuous. There are so many fun things to learn!

Originally posted by pianopraze
We are answering your question about what symbols do to you.

Those that DO understand these symbols and how to use them are using them to control the populous.

here is the gem I have been looking for. Please explain to me how this is being done. A picture of a beehive hidden behind a curtain, or a square and compass cleverly placed on a lamp somehow drives the general population to do what?

BTW, I know what the beehive represents in the third degree lecture of masonry, but may not know what it represents on Tarot cards. Please enlighten me.

Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by Extant Taxon

 

Wow the cognitive dissonance in this post is amazing!

You should be in the entertainment industry

For those that don't know or understand cognitive dissonance here is an excellent postexplaining it and an example of an ignorant conspiratanmentist at work *wink*

edit on 30-11-2010 by pianopraze because: edited link

I was merely proposing different possibilities as to what may be going on as regards the topic. Your mistake in categorising this as cognitive dissonance is to think I subscribe to them all. Or any. They're thought experiments, ad hoc reality tunnels. Theories. Put forward, as I said in my earlier post, as possible antitheses to the monolithic conservative Christian right conspiracy theory you perhaps subscribe to.

That black and white, simplistic worldview I referred to earlier has some relevance here I think.

A failure of imagination is very much the preserve of the moribund dogma such worldviews produce. We've had two thousand years of the Christian apocalyptic meme that is now championed by sites such as the one you linked. Time to move on from being trapped in the terminally shuttered Judaeo-Christian outlook. It's yawnsome.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by pianopraze
We are answering your question about what symbols do to you.

Those that DO understand these symbols and how to use them are using them to control the populous.

here is the gem I have been looking for. Please explain to me how this is being done. A picture of a beehive hidden behind a curtain, or a square and compass cleverly placed on a lamp somehow drives the general population to do what?

BTW, I know what the beehive represents in the third degree lecture of masonry, but may not know what it represents on Tarot cards. Please enlighten me.

edit on 30-11-2010 by network dude because: edit to clarify

Answered already in my own and other peoples previous posts multiple times. I cannot help if you do not read and perceive what we are saying or choose not to understand or accept.

Bees, a study in industry to Masons, have many other deeper references. They represent the collective unconsciousness, genetic memory, and many aspects of sacred geometry. They are representatives of goddess worship and sacred feminine because they are ruled by a queen. They are linked with the goddess Venus (bright morning star/evening star which is also Christ/Hermes/Lucifer). The bees is a symbol of wisdom and is an alchemist transmuting Gold through its labor. The Virgin Mother goddess in some egyptian mythology gave birth to the solar messiah Re then changed into a bee and flew off and formed the Temple of Neith which is known as the house of the bee. This is just a sampling... it goes on and on. I've barely scratched the surface.

Bee's are the symbols of initiate, wisdom, transmutation, and sacred geometry.

Roman's stole the Greek who stole the Egyptian and so forth.... these mystery traditions are as old and constant as humanity. The bee is the call to go beneath the veil and see the sacred geometry of the universe and understand your inner divinity.

Bees reproduce based on the Fibonacci sequence.

The Fibonacci sequence is one of the keys to sacred geometry.

They honey comb is formed in a hexagon. The hexagon contains the double triangle symbol which most of us recognize as the sign of Israel. The symbol is actually an older hermetical one containing two triangles or pyramids representing the hermetical "as above, so below" and is the symbol for Jupiter.

reply to post by pianopraze


Well, I hardly want to get into a debate on the mechanics of sigil magick, but my interpretation (of Morrison, Hine, Dunn and others) is that the sigil only has power to the person who created it, with his intent. I could draw a sigil and show it to you, but no matter how many thousands of people might look at it, the sigil only works for me, because I was the one who said "I'm drawing X to mean Y". The connection between the drawing and the will is personal and conscientious. A sigil can't have a subconscious affect on anyone, and it can't do anything to or for someone who doesn't attach a personal meaning to it.

One of the first Masonic symbols we're taught is the 24 inch gauge. The lecture explanation is

The Twenty-Four Inch Gauge is an instrument made use of by operative Masons to measure and lay out their work. But we, as Free and Accepted Masons, are taught to make use of it for the more noble and glorious purpose of dividing our time. It being divided into twenty-four equal parts, is emblematical of the twenty-four hours of the day; which we are taught to divide into three parts, whereby we find a portion for the service of God and a distressed worthy brother; a portion for our usual vocations, and a portion for refreshment and sleep.

So that's the official explanation of the symbol. But for me, it takes on a more personal meaning... when I think about it, I think about how I tend to over-extend myself... work, school, lodge, family, and other obligations, and that it takes a concerted effort on my part to find a balance between them.

Originally posted by pianopraze

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by pianopraze
We are answering your question about what symbols do to you.

Those that DO understand these symbols and how to use them are using them to control the populous.

here is the gem I have been looking for. Please explain to me how this is being done. A picture of a beehive hidden behind a curtain, or a square and compass cleverly placed on a lamp somehow drives the general population to do what?

BTW, I know what the beehive represents in the third degree lecture of masonry, but may not know what it represents on Tarot cards. Please enlighten me.

edit on 30-11-2010 by network dude because: edit to clarify

Answered already in my own and other peoples previous posts multiple times. I cannot help if you do not read and perceive what we are saying or choose not to understand or accept.

I must just be an idiot. Please have pity on the daft. Please copy the part/s in previous posts where you or

someone else explained exacty

how

theyare controlling the populace. You can even

show examples. Act as if you are explaining it to a child. I seem to understand it better that way.

Originally posted by Extant Taxon

I was merely proposing different possibilities as to what may be going on as regards the topic. Your mistake in categorising this as cognitive dissonance is to think I subscribe to them all. Or any. They're thought experiments, ad hoc reality tunnels. Theories. Put forward, as I said in my earlier post, as possible antitheses to the monolithic conservative Christian right conspiracy theory you perhaps subscribe to.

That black and white, simplistic worldview I referred to earlier has some relevance here I think.

A failure of imagination is very much the preserve of the moribund dogma such worldviews produce. We've had two thousand years of the Christian apocalyptic meme that is now championed by sites such as the one you linked. Time to move on from being trapped in the terminally shuttered Judaeo-Christian outlook. It's yawnsome.

edit on 30/11/10 by Extant Taxon because: (no reason given)

If you have read my posts you know I'm far past simple black and white Christian outlook.

The same corporations that make the bombs own the media. Look it up. They indoctrinate us to hatred in the media, desensitize us to violence, and ship us off to war while propagandizing us via all the news outlets that this is ok and the way it should be.

I call bull ****

Doesn't matter which religion you belong to it should be easy to see this is crap. This is brainwashing on a massive scale. I think those that are perpetuating their lie are delusional. So yes, your post is full of cognitive dissonance when you say "It's ok, they are just corporations doing what corporations so they are not controlling you" just after you say they do control you through the media

may indeed be to dominate and control the world in a corporate sense

vs.

they just have have a twenty year business plan

The tool that symbolic language is is merely neutral

vs.

The other idea I would present, as a thought experiment, is that the base archetypes expressed through the use of symbolism, may be exercising power through the very people that employ them, who knows what may be acting on them in a metaphysical sense. Plato once said that men are toys in the hands of ideas (archetypes)....

“Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing them. In 1957, Leon Festinger published his theory of cognitive dissonance, which has changed the way psychologists look at decision-making and behavior. It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.

Cognitive dissonance occurs when a person perceives a logical inconsistency in his beliefs, when one idea implies the opposite of another. The dissonance might be experienced as guilt, anger, frustration, or embarrassment.” source

reply to post by network dude

I started to copy/paste all the answers from above, but the post became huge and I'm sure it would have been a T/C violation anyways for excessive quoting.

It's all there over and over throughout this thread. All I can say is reread the tread.

Symbols affect our subconscious. You see a phallus or a vagina you get aroused even if it is hidden in the iconography. Other gestalt symbols convey other meanings that are seared into our brain by their use in our society. I believe many of these are conveyed through our bloodlines and like the bee we just know based on genetic memory. If you don't want to see what many of us have posted you will not see.

/end

Originally posted by pianopraze
All I can say is reread the tread.

no please, just 1. See, I re-read the thread, and still couldn't find that. i know you said several times, asked and answered, but the thing is, I didn't see it/understand it. So If you would, just copy one instance where you answered the incredibly specific question:

How are the top people from wherever controlling the masses?

Just show me so I understand what they are getting for this incredible investment. And I don't mean brand recognition to make you eat a McDonalds burger, I mean obvious control that you claim to have shown.

Type in illuminati in reverse and add .COM and see where it leads you to.

Originally posted by King Seesar
but how can one really be sure there in control of this dream within a dream with direct energy weapons around that can control you through frequencies and such not too mention magik that can do the same thing and with so many people wanting to play god how do you know who's really in control???

The only defense is to know that we are god and try to comprehend as best we can. I believe we have higher selves of some kind so they may intervene if they think such symbolism and control will negate any learning or soul growth (sooner or later).

A million depressing thoughts may fill our heads when we look into the nature of reality and affiliated areas especially if we consider we might be locked in in a timeloop by some outside (in our sense) force. But it does seem we are learning and it is a very personal thing while simultaniously being of a pan universal scale, macro to the micro. But we are god, in the end even when incaranted as an earthbound human there is no reason to accept any type of control if we dont want to. If you truly believe you are god then how can anyone hold power over you. The guy that comes to you playing god simply has no sway and you recognise him hfor what he is because you can instantly tell that ego still resides in this person.

Your point actually leads on to something very striking. All the media that has this symbolism also plays this out. Transformers, Jesus, Superman, Michael Jackson, The Matrix. The architypal saviour....The ONE (neo).

Someone is coming to save you. The Chosen one, the one in propechy, you will know its him because........checklist........

There can only be everyone. We are our own saviour. We will take responsibility for our own souls.

Why is all this entertainment about heroes?

Because they dont want us to know the truth.

We are God.

Originally posted by King Seesar
My guess is if somethings off would be to do research and see if anything matchs and if it does then take appropriate action from there, just because one is born free dosen't change the fact that there could be others that want to take that away from you however the means...and symbolism can also control you if you let it.

OK, here is an example of the games that trouble me in movies.

tell me what this logo means, anybody...............

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d1afb463508c.jpg[/atsimg]