N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Military to hold firing drills near border island next week

SEOUL, Nov. 30 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's military plans to conduct large-scale artillery firing drills in seas around the Korean Peninsula, including waters close to the Yellow Sea border, starting Dec. 6, seeking to beef up its defense readiness posture against any possible additional provocations by North Korea, officials said Tuesday.

According to officials at the Korea Hydrographic and Oceanographic Administration, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) has issued an advisory to local vessels planning to navigate 29 locations in waters around the peninsula from Dec. 6-12.

Link

Originally posted by Nomad451
reply to post by infinite

 

I don't see China officially announcing they are cutting all ties with N. Korea any time soon.

I think this wikileak document goes back to 2006. china haven't done anything to separate themselves from N. Korea since then

I don't know about that. Look, every time North Korea does something awful, the US flies to Beijing to beg the Chinese to do something about it, to stop N. Korea, spank them, something. Anyway, China then is able to gain concessions for doing that. To the Chinese, N. Korea is like the goose that laid the golden egg. I highly suspect that China is the behind the scenes money man on this Wikileaks thing.
China holds a great deal of America's debt, and if it wanted to, I suppose they could just foreclose......Then we had Obama go to India, and hand them most favoured trade partner status. Wonder what America got from that???
How about this:
India to deploy 36,000 extra troops on Chinese border
India rushing more troops to Chinese border with modern weapons
I have to think that North Korea is flat broke, and wishes a way out of responsibility of 21.4 million persons who will surely rush the seat of government just as soon as the food and heating oil runs out.
North Korea is broke. North Korea can no longer feed itself. North Korea's infrastructure is pitiful. North Korea can't repay its debts to foreign nations. And North Korea may still be developing nuclear weapons that could terrorise the region. And yet, any politician who is anyone is trying to court Pyongyang and its despot Kim Jong II.

I agree Tifozi and Vitchilo, these Wikileaks leaks do seem "controlled" to the extent that it appears, through media portrayal and some of the leaks, that Iran and North Korea are the ones that are most targetted.

What I mean by this is that I find it very interesting that it's leaked that the US's Arab allies in the region want to see Iran bombed. No surprises there, but this, and the claim North Korea has given missiles to Iran capable of hitting Europe (Where have he heard that sort of stuff before? Are they ready to fire in 45 mins? Yawn) it does wonders for Israel's public relations in it's desire for war with Iran. Iran can hit Europe! Thanks to North Korea! The Arab world is with us against Iran! etc.

Similarily, a US Embassy Cable regarding a South Korean government minister's claims that China is ready to stop supporting North Korea could encourage those who wish to just launch an attack on North Korea, and give comfort to those who are concerned about what China would do if war breaks out.

I think the MSM is promoting leaks that fit agendas, so US Embassy Cables that could be used to give justification for war with Iran are promoted, as well as the ones where North Korea are portrayed as having no friends and are about to topple.

Is Wikileaks to blame, or are it's releases just being manipulated and certain ones promoted to advance agendas set by TPTB and the MSM?

reply to post by jonny2410


So the trouble restart on December 6 uh?

Hopefully China has time to convince North Korea to restrain themselves.... otherwise I think that this time, if the North bombs the island again, the South is gonna actually send planes to bomb inside North Korea and it will start for real, full scale war.

Originally posted by jonny2410

Military to hold firing drills near border island next week

SEOUL, Nov. 30 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's military plans to conduct large-scale artillery firing drills in seas around the Korean Peninsula, including waters close to the Yellow Sea border, starting Dec. 6, seeking to beef up its defense readiness posture against any possible additional provocations by North Korea, officials said Tuesday.

According to officials at the Korea Hydrographic and Oceanographic Administration, the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) has issued an advisory to local vessels planning to navigate 29 locations in waters around the peninsula from Dec. 6-12.

Link

This kind of action by the US and SK only shows that there is something to fear, and not only NK's destruction capabilities.

When NK threatens, most people see it as a joke, while we almost know for sure that they have indeed weapons that can produce a fair amount of destruction. Yet, the US started a war in Iraq because there was a thought about WMD's, which never appeared.

But here it is, a country supposedly abandoned by all, with no allies. They are poor, ignorant, brainwashed, with outdated weapons, and all those negative aspects, but again, nobody does a bloody thing about it.

Even worst, the US is putting their tails between the legs and shutting up with this whole drill thing. So much for the demonstration of power. What they are showing, is that they just sent there one of their almighty carriers, and they aren't even going to dare to use it because they are afraid of what the North Koreans might do.

Well, you don't need to be a psycho-dictator to see this and take this conclusion. First the US and SK try to show their teeth to NK, and now, just because NK isn't stepping down or cooling off, they decided to hold their drills.

While some people may laugh at the ridicule side of this exchange of power show off, it's a very dangerous thing to do.

Taking the risk of being labelled "anti-american" (as in, "so you blame the US for everything?"), the US and SK just did a very stupid thing.

The exercise that made NK strike was a stupidity. Sending there military power to intimidate, was a stupidity and an unnecessary risk, and finally, trying to demonstrate power and then backing off, afraid of the consequences of showing that power, is another stupidity.

For all we know, the NKoreans may be jumping of joy thinking that the US/SK are cowards, and they just might start thinking too high of them-selfs(even more) and make a move without any kind of restrain. This was a very dangerous thing to do.

And honestly, if the US knew that North Korea is alone, and that China isn't going to support them, they would take out NK without thinking twice, after this stunt.

The US holding off just shows that thing's aren't all that clear as they seem to be. Someone just got their bluff blown to pieces.

there are 2 main reasons why we haven't stomped North Korea into the dirt
1.China-we really didn't want a proxy war with or closest trading ally and current financier
2.the proximity of Seoul to North Korean guns,Seoul has 10,421,782 people living in it and is the countries economic backbone which would likely be leveled with in days if not hours,imagine 10 million people,what is the casualty ratio going to be? 10% that is 1 million dead.

I would imagine if we had some way of absolutely securing Seoul from being leveled or over run we would teach the Dear leader a lesson in violence.

reply to post by modified device


Good post!

I would imagine if we had some way of absolutely securing Seoul from being leveled or over run we would teach the Dear leader a lesson in violence.

Preemptive EMP strike?..

Takes out the military, but has a reduced affect on the civilians of North Korea, as they don't have many mod cons.

China supports the "independent and peaceful reunification of the Korean peninsula" and cannot afford to give the North Korean regime the impression it has a blank cheque to act any way it wants, Chinese officials based in Europe said today.

The officials, who asked not to be identified, spoke after the Guardian revealed that senior figures in Beijing, exasperated with North Korea behaving like a "spoiled child", had told their South Korean counterparts that China was leaning towards acceptance of reunification under Seoul's control.

China's moves to distance itself from the North Korean regime were revealed in the latest tranche of leaked US embassy cables obtained by Wikileaks and published yesterday by the Guardian and four international newspapers.

"We do not have an effective way to influence them. Sometimes when we try it only makes things worse," a senior Chinese diplomat said.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by modified device


Well, point one is now redundant - China is feels North Korea is a "unhelpful" voice in its sphere of influence. Notice, Pakistan and Zimbabwe are behaviour themselves and maybe, just maybe, North Korea will be made an "example" of. China could be a very brutal mother if you start to reflect badly on her foreign relations.

reply to post by Tifozi


Cowards is far from the proper terminoligy. If NK or you or anyone else for that matter is really thinking along those lines you all better pay closer attention. Let us take a brief look at what is going on. India is lining it's border, Philipeans are collecting their people back, evacuations are occuring on the Islands, not one ship is headed in that direction from the US, several ships left the west coast of the US this morning heading in the direction of the west pacific. SK is readying the emergency bunkers which their people can get to in 5 minutes, heads of state are meeting - ect., ect., - Coward no, I don't think so - Proper preparation is underway to minimize the loss of life of the South Korean's when this war breaks out.... by the way - those ships that set sail today - should take them 4/5 - days to reach the Western Pacific -- do the math -- they should be ariving the day before the "excersies" are to begin.

I just want to point out that I have been saying all along that I knew that china were not going to side with DPRK and had stated that I had prior knowledge of china’s intentions.

I will be posting a thread explaining this.

US rejects talks with North Korea

From the Link:

The US has snubbed Chinese proposals to ease the Korean confrontation through emergency multiparty talks including the North, with a White House spokesman dismissing the suggestion as a "PR activity".

Beijing had called for the talks by the six parties involved in the stalled North Korean aid-for-denuclearisation discussions after a Northern artillery barrage killed four people, including two civilians, on a Southern island of Yeonpyeong. Tensions on the peninsula are at their highest for years, with joint military drills by the US and the South under way in the Yellow Sea today.

The White House spokesman, Robert Gibbs, told reporters: "The United States and a host of others, I don't think, are not interested in stabilising the region through a series of PR activities."

More

I must say that is quite a blunt rebuffal to the Chinese request for talks.

What could be read into this? The Obama administration (as well as South Korea and Japan) seeing the Wikileaks headlines that China no longer backs North Korea and more or less telling China: "We don't have to listen to you on this any more China, because we know you don't support them either."

If that is the case, then it's a major miscalculation. As was seemingly revealed in the leaked US Embassy cable regarding the Singapore's Mentor Minister Lee and his discussions with US diplomats, China still wants North Korea as a buffer state.

The report that China no longer backed North Korea came from a South Korean government minister talking to US Diplomats, claiming that's what the Chinese had told him.

As has been seemingly revealed in the leaked US embassy cables, North Korea wants to talk, but only to the US, and for the moment, no six-party talks.

This rebuffal by The White House appears to want to embarrass China in front of North Korea, which would be a double blow to China who are facing these hyped headlines that they no longer back North Korea.


It could be a big miscalculation by The White House.

How will China respond?

reply to post by Anmarie96


Are you actually praying that that's how things work in real life?

In the military, and in military policy, there are things that are like... etiquette. Thing's you do, with clear intentions, that show something, small gestures with meaning.

Like the firing of shells to the water, really close to border, means "We know you're there, we are firing close to you, so you know we can aim that far", and the NK response means "We know that you can aim, but we can destroy". Their attack wasn't military, it was political. Setting some houses on fire, and scaring civilians, isn't a military operation. It was a response, an attitude.

On the same line, the move on the side of SK and US of keeping the exercises as schedueled is a message of "We're not afraid of your little bombardments". And they risked it, and said that they were going to continue with the drills despite of NK's threats. That's a show of force.

Sendind A CARRIER, and not a Task Force IS a show of force. It's not a effective military force, it's just show off. Sending a carrier alone (although with 4 escorts) is TOO RISKY if it is for something more than a demonstration of power.

It's actually a duality. Although you're sending a carrier, that can wipe out most world countries by itself, meaning, you are actually saying indirectly "we only need this carrier to take you out"... You also can't afford to lose it, so if you actually have to use it, the carrier by itself isn't any good. It's just a message, not a preparation. It's simply to show presence and intimidate.

The chinese once popped a submarine in the middle of a military exercise, without being detected (and mind you, there was a carrier among the ships in the exercise). Do you really think they would risk sending the carrier without a small fleet protecting it? Doesn't happen, unless it's just for intimidation.

The problem is, they carried out this demonstration of power and attitude, and when NKorea DIDN'T back down, DIDN'T show fear, and much the opposite, WARNED them about what they were about to do...what does the US and SK do? They stand down, and delay the exercises.

Take it like you want, believe in the sugary pill that they are trying to make westerns believe. The US just made a cowardly move, despite making preparations for war or not, THIS ACT on itself is a demonstration of weakness, a small evidence that the US has fears and that not even their military power intimidates them. At least immediately.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


an EMP detonation wouldn't do much against a country that looks like this

Picture here

Originally posted by Regensturm
US rejects talks with North Korea

There is NOTHING to gain by talking to the NK's.

It would just erupt in to an exchange of words...NOTHING on paper would get signed or even acknowledge.
Waste of time and money.

If ANYONE needs to be liberated it's the NK's... Not Iraqi's or Afghanistanis.

reply to post by CanadianDream420


I totally agree,the North Koreans need liberation and I am curious if conflict were to break out what percentage of the population would turn in revolt,if done correctly (and when has the US done anything right) it would be a great 5th column advantage,we counted on this in Iraq and it kinda fizzled but in the scenario I think it would suceed and all it would really take is food.

Do you really want updated news?

All you need is to read behind the lines, and using logic and reason, will you be able to analyse the situation better.

Since the wargames commenced, lil kim had been keeping quiet and docile, even in the midst of rare intimidating war rhetoric from S Korea. He knows the score, and with big Daddy China turning his back, the nutjob realises he is on his own, despite goading from his generals whom are in the pay by others to push for war.

One must understand the Eastern culture, to understand lil kim. He is a despot and deluded. Despite decades of commie training, he is still an easterner, with 5000 years of civilised and recorded history. Traditions die hard. He care about his family and dynastic ambitions, against the very grains of what true communism is all about. And this is his weakness and his downfall while attempting to follow that doctrine, which the brainwashed masses are not blind to such idiocies.

While caring for his family and dynastic ambitions, which will be his downfall, he chickened out in this latest manoveur, just as China, for all her presumed and played up might, had done so. They are only following an ancient Sun Tzi tradition. They know their limitations and this is not the right time to fight, more so against an enrage nation that S Korea is today.

S Koreans will not be fighting for the Chaebols ( korean corporations) or the govt ( bunch of greedy corp inepts), but only for their own families and loved ones, people whom they care about in the face of intimidation by lil kim. Sunshine policies, sharing of wealth, etc had not work for decades, and worse still, the result was more S. Koreans death.

Talk is over, The S Koreans are prepare to make the ultimate sacrifice, come what may, alone, not for themselves, but their future generations - to silence lil kim once and for all.

Lil Kim had backed down. No more ammo was spent. He shut up, for the sake of his baby kim. 'Never push a man to a corner, or he will fight back' is a saying I learnt, to leave exits for someone to back away gracefully. One solution to stop the impending war is to offer amnesty to the generals, to allow them to keep their wealth and live in Vegas with casinos and porn for the rest of their pathetic lives.

Even Baby Kim may prefer such a lifestyle, just like his brother, than to suffer death and defeat from courageous and determined S. Koreans. They are only human, and easterners

Originally posted by modified device
I think it would suceed and all it would really take is food.

So you're talking about a joint US/McDonalds airstrike?

=)

Originally posted by CanadianDream420

Originally posted by modified device
I think it would suceed and all it would really take is food.

So you're talking about a joint US/McDonalds airstrike?

=)

Yep the Mc Bomb will do the trick i guess.

reply to post by Regensturm


Sorry but that Wikileaks document is so fake i even doubt its real and no china wont abandon north korea are you crazy? North korea is a door way to china if the americans and south koreans take over the NK they would be closer to china and you will be pissing off russia.


Please don't believe Wikileaks its becoming very suspicious with its so called leaks.