Ancient Civilizations Possibly Had Knowledge of a Time When Earth Years Lasted 360 Days

This one hit me today out of no where, i had remembered reading somewhere that the Earth actually used to orbit around the Sun in a just slightly slower manner than it does today. The Earth year used to be 360 before it changed to 365. Then, i remembered about how the Mayan developed a three calendar system to navigate time and dates. One of these calendars has a year length of 360 days and another calendar has a year length of 365. Obviously my thoughts were if it was possible the ancient civilization was far more ancient than what historical records today think. Or that possibly the Mayans had somehow been the remaining survivors of a long long ago civilization that lived on Earth during it's 360 day/year orbit. ( I am a firm beleiver there is significant truth to the legends of Atlantis, or some advanced civilization that 'somehow' disapeared )

So i decided to pull up some sites on the internet to see if i could form a valid structure for my hypothesis, so here i go.

Firstly, here is some breif background on the Mayan calendars.

You got your Long Count, your Tzolkin and your Haab.

In the Long Count calendar one year is 360 days.

uinal (1 uinal = 20 kin = 20 days)
tun (1 tun = 18 uinal = 360 days = approx. 1 year)
katun (1 katun = 20 tun = 7,200 days = approx. 20 years)
baktun (1 baktun = 20 katun = 144,000 days = approx. 394 years)

Next is the Tzolkin

The Tzolkin date is a combination of two "week" lengths.

While our calendar uses a single week of seven days, the Mayan calendar used two different lengths of week:

■a numbered week of 13 days, in which the days were numbered from 1 to 13
■a named week of 20 days, in which the names of the days were

So basically, the Tzolkin is just as interesting in that it is filled with some very particular numerology ( in my opinion ) but that might be considered a topic for another discussion, though possibly relevant here in the context of informing the reader that the Mayan were indeed aware of such things...

So that brings us to the Haab

The length of the Tzolkin year was 260 days and the length of the Haab year was 365 days. The smallest number that can be divided evenly by 260 and 365 is 18,980, or 365×52; this was known as the Calendar Round.

OK, so basically all the calendars worked together in complex ways to get dates and numeral significance readings. As you can see the length of a year in the Haab was 365 days.

So the possible scenerio that i wish to bring up is this:

Perhaps there was a civilization colonizing Earth, mayber this means a civilization like told in the stories of Atlantis - an advanced civilization... Or perhaps this could be just a much older version of our known Mayan civilization. This civilization lived so long ago that it was during the time that the Earth orbited the sun in approximately 360 days. These people were intelligent enough to notice this and thus developed a calendar ( the Long Count ) to navigate time with. Over time the Earth's orbit changed and so they were forced to change their calendar system to keep up with things. Of course something like a calendar system might be impossible to just 'erase and replace' for a whole society and system built apon it. Possibly to make things easier a new calendar was simply added that had the new and correct year length ( Haab ). And then perhaps the Tzolkin was introduced at some time as a supplementary third calendar to somehow link the two or create a more understandable system in some way.

It turns out that alot of ancient cultures actually had calendars of 360 days per year. Such as the Chinnese, Persians and Egyptians.

link

Evidence for an ancient 360-day calendar abounds. The ancient Egyptians used such a calendar, which was very close to a classical lunar calendar.

Nor were the Egyptians the only ones. The Assyrians also used a calendar having 360 days, and counting months from waxing crescent to waxing crescent. The Babylonians must also have used a 360-day calendar, because 360 is a common number in their divisions of the skies and of the basic geometric figure, the circle. (In fact, Western civilization inherits the unit of angle measure, the degree, as a 1/360th part of a full circle, from the Babylonians.) The ancient Persian empire (modern Iran) used a 360-day calendar as recently as the seventh century BC, at which time they added five days to a year to make it even with their planting seasons. One also finds a 360-day calendar in ancient Brahman (the priestly class in India), Mayan, and Aztec tradition.

Astronomers have generally been at a loss to explain why so many ancient civilizations (including the Babylonians who, some say, invented astronomy) could have made such errors in the length of the year. But the problem, to be more precise, is why they all made the same error. A 360-day calendar must have had some basis in fact—and indeed the Egyptians understood, perhaps more readily than any of their contemporaries, that a 360-day year was not an error at all, but was the original length of the year.

Immanuel Velikovsky, in Worlds in Collision, incorrectly assumed that the length of the actual year had changed. He believed that the planets Mars and Venus had somehow passed close enough to Earth to impart enough energy to it to move it to a higher orbit than it had originally. Thus he believed that the actual, physical period of the earth around the sun had changed. But he never once showed how Mars or Venus could have made such a close pass at the earth, and neither has anyone else attempted it since.

But if the length of the year did not change, then the length of the day must have changed. But clearly the length of the month changed as well—for if the day had become shorter but the month did not change, then a month should have more days in it, not fewer.

It seems others have put this together similiar to what i have proposed, at least in the sense that there was indeeed civilizations of humans using calendars at a time when the Earth orbited the sun in 360 days, and not our usual 365.

So now the best thing to do would be to try and find out apporximately when scientists agree the Earth orbited around at 360 days/orbit. Can anyone find some data on that?

some more interesting bits. A nautical mile, which i am not too familiar with, it seems is a geographical derived length based on the dividing of the earth's size with the knowledge of a 360 degree seperation ( i know i might have worded that weird. )

link

Respecting the earth, one may actively cite both the geographical mile and also the nautical mile as examples of real distance measures derived from angular ‘sweeps’ over the surface of the planet. In the case of the former, the geographical mile is the arc length distance swept out over the surface of the earth by a single minute of arc upon the circular plane of the earth’s equator; equal to 1/21600 of the earth’s equatorial circumference. By contrast, the nautical mile is a unit measure based upon the total circumference of the earth from pole to pole, which is elliptical in nature; being also 1/21600 of such a surface circumference.


Based upon the known dimensions of the earth, the actual values of these two noted measures may be calculated as follows:




Known Earth Dimensions:


Equatorial Circumference = 24902.4 statute miles


Elliptical (pole to pole) Circumference = 24860.2 statute miles




Therefore:


Geographical mile = (24902.4 x 5280) / 21600 = 6087.25333…feet


Nautical mile = (24860.2 x 5280) / 21600 = 6076.93777…feet




As one can see, the nautical mile is just less than the geographical mile; a result of the planet being compressed along its axis due to its daily rotation, causing the earth to expand outwards at its equator. Indeed, the very dynamics of this readily accounts for the fact that the equator of the earth is circular and the polar circumference of the earth is elliptical. (The plane of the equator is at 90 degrees to the planet’s axis of spin).


With the above facts established, one is thus bound to suspect almost intuitively then that were indeed the earth to have once possessed a yearly orbit of precisely 360 days, then certain of its other primary physical characteristics, would also have been different; specifically, the physical circumference of the earth itself.


Moreover, in taking this point further; considering the exacting nature of an earth year of precisely 360 days one would suspect that were the earth in fact to have possessed such a year, it would also have simultaneously possessed a physical circumference of such measure, so as to actually be in harmony with the very value of its orbital period i.e that 360 days fully completes one full journey about the sun. And one would therefore expect also, what must be some sort of lawful association between an increase of the earth year (from an ideal of 360 days to its present value), and an accompanying change to the physical size of the earth.


But can this be demonstrated though?

Basically this gets into that 'expanding earth' theory that i have been hearing about. Personally i never really gave the theory the time of day but the link in this post actually has got me looking into it, i suggest if you're interested you check out that link, or google some, there are actually quite a few others i found while browsing the web that talk about that

and some more on this site

Prior to Noah's flood around 9600 BC there were evidently
290 days in an Earth year. After Noah's flood it appears
there were 360 days in an Earth year till 701 BC. After 701
BC there were 365 and 1/4 days in an Earth year. It also
seems Mars used to pass very close to the Earth every
few years during this time. Around 1400 BC the Earth
experienced the long day of Joshua. Around 701 BC
the shadow of the sundial turned backward 10 "mallah"
or 100 degrees, the Earth's year lengthened to 365.25
days, and Mars moved quite a bit further away from
the Sun. In order for the Earth and Mars to have an increase
in the number of days in their years they would have had to
move further away from the Sun. In order for the Earth system
and Mars to move further away from the Sun they would have
to of gained a specific amount of angular momentum while
another massive enough planet that passed within the Earth's
sphere of influence lost that same amount of angular momentum.

Noahs flood. A story about how civilization was wiped out by God, similiar to Atlantis falling in one day? interesting find even if not well supported.


And an Earth year of 290 days? That is eerily close to the Tzolkin year length of 260! Perhaps my theory that the Mayans carried knowledge of a time of 360 day years is a bit skewed. Perhaps there was a civilization that lived on Earth when a year was 260-290 days and after a 'great flood' or an event similiar to the fall of Atlantis the remaining survivors kept their calendar system alive until the Earth year changed to 360 ( for whatever reason ). Thus two calendars were used for some time, and then when a third calendar had to be introduced when the Earth year changed slightly again, the people that had survived the catastrophe had become a civilization such as the Mayans whom as people none were actually ALIVE during the time of the first two calendars, but still kept them because as a society they had built their way of life around them.

Anyways, perhaps that is a possibility.

ok people, i know it might be a stretch for some of you to consider, but i am looking for help finding some NASA records or some type of verifiable scientific records that could show a time on our current calendar when the Earth revolved around the sun at a speed and revolution that allowed 360 days per year, perhaps there are even evidence that once we had such an orbit at 260-290 days per year? i don't doubt it, but it an interesting question that has arisen so far.

Intriguing concept. All the fundamentals are sound... the only thing, in your OP, is that our orbit is slowing down, not going faster.

I do think the earth is growing, we get tons of new meteor material falling to earth each year

---

To cross reference with the Mayan Calendar, also other 360 day models.

Jose Arguelles is crazy about that kind of stuff.

Egyptians? Vedas? Sumerians?

Here is a source I just found through google talking about it:
Ideal Earth year 360 days?


Also Blavatsky always weighs in on these things... talking about Yugas and Vedic calendar... search for '360' in this book:
Secret Doctrine


ETA: Missed your ref. about Egyptians/Vedas/Mesopotamia

reply to post by beebs


Velikovsky also spends some time on the 360-day earth in his "Worlds in Collision"

reply to post by indigothefish


260 days is roughly human gestation period as well.

I would reckon that we don't have a record for when the earth's orbit was 260 days... even in the most ancient of civilizations.. but it would be exciting if we went back that far as advanced humans.

reply to post by beebs


definitely, thanks

it's somewhat confusing to put together quickly, but there are alot of good reads on the subject, i will look into the name you have mentioned, nice spike avatar btw

So does anyone have any real dates for when the shift from 360 day years on Earth turned to 365 day years?

Originally posted by indigothefish
This one hit me today out of no where, i had remembered reading somewhere that the Earth actually used to orbit around the Sun in a just slightly slower manner than it does today. The Earth year used to be 360 before it changed to 365.

Actually, the Earth hasn't slowed down enough yet for a 360 day year. It *has* been 424 days (back after it cooled down, about 500 million years ago) and during the age of the dinosaurs was 371 days long:
woodstown.org...

The 360 days usually comes from civilizations that are using a lunar calendar and they're trying to make the "moons" come out right. In ancient Egypt, they had a 10 day week (not our shorter 7 day week), so 360 days makes all their months come out to be an even number of days instead of the awkward "leap year" and so forth.

The days have gotten longer throughout the ages, but only by a few seconds each century.

And there wasn't a Flood.

Not to be oppositional but,
planetary speed of rotation has what to do with distance from the sun again?
there is more than one variable here

Yes i wrote about this in my new book about Ancient Egypt.

Specifically the Egyptians saw the 365 day year as 360+5 extra days. These 5 days were considered ill fated days (when the sons and daughters of Geb and Nut were born)
they were showing the importance of the 360

I feel it is also why a circle is divided into 360 degrees, a dumb number when 100 or 10 whatnot would have been much easier mathematically,
but if the earth was 360 days rotation, then it would make sense to use that for the circle division as well

and the big question is, what actually happened to give the earth the extra five days

Originally posted by Danbones
Not to be oppositional but,
planetary speed of rotation has what to do with distance from the sun again?
there is more than one variable here

Sudden brain cell failure. Wasn't distance.. it was the speed of rotation (which I realized a moment ago.)

So now the best thing to do would be to try and find out apporximately when scientists agree the Earth orbited around at 360 days/orbit. Can anyone find some data on that?

This might help. I searched Google Scholar with the exact search term "360 day year" and narrowed the search in advanced scholar search (preferences) to physics, astronomy and platetary science. There are only about 50 results, but this one caught my eye. I haven't looked through the rest of the results yet.

The sensitivity of the African-Asian monsoonal climate to orbital parameter changes for 9000 years BP in a low-resolution general circulation model
ccr.aos.wisc.edu...

reply to post by Byrd

Over time, Earth's days have been getting longer and longer.

So basically this source you provided says that the first day when earth was formed was about 6 hours, and it only keeps increasing. So that would have to mean our rotation is slowing down... the source you provided says this is due to the gravity of the sun and the moon.

very interesting, but i'm still looking for any something scientific with exact dates corresponding to changes in day length/ days in year

reply to post by indigothefish


Pretty interesting stuff, but if we now have 365 days a year, wouldn't it be common sense that the Earth would orbit faster, not slower to make a 360 day year? Just saying.
Well the rotation would have to slow to make longer days, but orbit accounts for a year because of seasons right? So it could be either the rotation slows or the orbit speeds up right?

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

So now the best thing to do would be to try and find out apporximately when scientists agree the Earth orbited around at 360 days/orbit. Can anyone find some data on that?

This might help. I searched Google Scholar with the exact search term "360 day year" and narrowed the search in advanced scholar search (preferences) to physics, astronomy and platetary science. There are only about 50 results, but this one caught my eye. I haven't looked through the rest of the results yet.

The sensitivity of the African-Asian monsoonal climate to orbital parameter changes for 9000 years BP in a low-resolution general circulation model
ccr.aos.wisc.edu...

edit on 11/16/2010 by this_is_who_we_are because: typos

Actually, I jumped the gun on this. This article has no related info. D'oh.

reply to post by indigothefish

Dont you mean faster around the sun in 360 days, than 365 days. Also the closer to the sun, dont you travel around it at a faster rate? so that would make it closer to the sun in the earlier days, idk unless the speed of the Earth was sped up then we slowed down to make our 365 day trip.

Originally posted by indigothefish
So basically this source you provided says that the first day when earth was formed was about 6 hours, and it only keeps increasing. So that would have to mean our rotation is slowing down... the source you provided says this is due to the gravity of the sun and the moon.

I'm not sure about the length of the "day" when the Earth was first formed (BIG problem here ... defining "formed". When it was a sphere but all hot rocks? After the oceans form? After the Moon establishes?) It's about 2 milliseconds per century (helios.gsfc.nasa.gov...), but this changes with the distance of the Moon from the Earth. The Moon's orbit increases about 3cm/year, which doesn't seem like a lot but over millions of years does produce some changes (helios.gsfc.nasa.gov...)

very interesting, but i'm still looking for any something scientific with exact dates corresponding to changes in day length/ days in year

The source, although designed for public school, is accurate (matches college geology texts.) We can know approximate dates (and it's done by fossil information) but we can't say "502,011,625 BC - day length was 20 hours, 417 days in a year."

One of the earlier papers (1972) on this is here: www.springerlink.com... (free PDF)

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by indigothefish

 

Pretty interesting stuff, but if we now have 365 days a year, wouldn't it be common sense that the Earth would orbit faster, not slower to make a 360 day year? Just saying.

Except there's no mechanism that slows a planet down in its orbit. If it goes slower, it starts falling into the sun. (this is why satellites fall to Earth... the tiny friction produced by air molecules in near space slows them down eventually. When they get to a certain point, they fall back to earth.

Well the rotation would have to slow to make longer days, but orbit accounts for a year because of seasons right? So it could be either the rotation slows or the orbit speeds up right?

No, the tilt of the Earth accounts for seasons. The length of the year is determined by "when we come back to a certain point in space." If the orbit speeds up, the Earth starts flying farther from the sun (which would be unusual, because there's no known way of boosting a planet out of its orbit.)