If Jesus was God, why did he pray to himself?

Originally posted by Blue_Mage
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Hey! I'm not picking a fight here! I just want to respected. Us Jews have been persecuted, killed, attacked, and so forth since the start of both Christianity and Islam.

*shocked*

And Christians have not???

reply to post by texastig

• The idea of mashiach (messiah) is an ancient one in Judaism • The Jewish idea of mashiach is a great human leader like King David, not a savior • There is much speculation about when the mashiach will come • The Bible identifies several tasks that the mashiach will accomplish • Jews do not believe in Jesus because he did not accomplish these tasks

Jewfaq

Matthew mistranslated Isaiah 7:14 and pulled the verse out of context in order to support the claim that the Messiah would be the product of a virgin birth. This is clearly provable, given the language in Isaiah's prophecy, and the context therein.

Isaiah 7:14

Looking for the Messiah?

These are my sources and they speak louder then words I can ever mention to anyone here or anywhere else in my life time. I have found G-D!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Why don't we answer the question first? Here it is again:

Who did Jesus call as the only true God in John 17:3? Who was he referring to?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Speaking of "GLORY"

heres a few more

Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.-1Cor2

Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.-Acts4

reply to post by jmdewey60


Then I'll present the question to you instead since you're obviously not an atheist.

Who did Jesus refer to as the only true God in John 17:3?

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm guessing Judaism says nothing about being humble.

As if you know anything about humility, friend.

Originally posted by bijouramov
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Why don't we answer the question first? Here it is again:

Who did Jesus call as the only true God in John 17:3? Who was he referring to?

The Father of course. No one is claiming the Father isn't divine.

Jesus's affirmation that His Father is the only true God to an Israelite society who was increasingly becoming Hellenized is NOT a rejection or denial of His divinity.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I understand what you meant.
I just disagree.
I don't see how you get that from the verses in question.

Well, Jesus is bringing up a verse, (Psalm 82:5-7) which talks about men being Gods and sons of the Most High, in connection to the question, “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

The connection just seems obvious to me…

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus knew more than just a single verse here and there and he understood the context and the true meanings of them and I believe the Pharisees and temple officials understood what he meant.

Yes, Jesus new the true meanings but it’s not so clear if the Pharisees understood what Jesus meant, I personally don’t think they got it…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

Yes, Jesus new the true meanings but it’s not so clear if the Pharisees understood what Jesus meant, I personally don’t think they got it…

Really? In the 3 1/2 years of His ministry they couldn't understand Him?

reply to post by bijouramov

And you do know that you are wrong to assume that the so-called "christians" who uphold the doctrine of the trinity are really christians, right? Christ himself never taught or even hinted anything about the so-called trinity anywhere in the Bible. So how come all these religious organizations who call themselves "christian churches" uphold the doctrine of the trinity? Think, sir. You might be surprised that those "christians" whose doctrines you're trying to debunk might not be really christians after all. In other words, sir, you are barking the wrong tree in me. Please read my post again, carefully this time, before you categorize me among those whom you perceive as christians.

Father Son Spirit

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.-John14

habitation of God through the Spirit.-Eph2

Originally posted by bijouramov
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Then I'll present the question to you instead since you're obviously not an atheist.
Who did Jesus refer to as the only true God in John 17:3?

Here's an example of a farewell address ending with a prayer, demonstrating the convention:
4 Ezra 8: 19b This is the beginning of the words of Esdras, before he was taken up: and I said,
20: O Lord, thou that dwellest in everlastingness which beholdest from above things in the heaven and in the air;
21: Whose throne is inestimable; whose glory may not be comprehended; before whom the hosts of angels stand with trembling,
22: Whose service is conversant in wind and fire; whose word is true, and sayings constant; whose commandment is strong, and ordinance fearful;
23: Whose look drieth up the depths, and indignation maketh the mountains to melt away; which the truth witnesseth:
24: O hear the prayer of thy servant, and give ear to the petition of thy creature.

I think that Jesus was using a formality invoking God that would have been well known to the hearers.
So, when he says the "True God", what he means is the same thing Ezra meant, which is the God who is true to keep His word.
Here is another verse that uses the same Greek word as used in 17:3, for "true":

John 4:37 For in this instance the saying is true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’

Here's a verse that uses the word, monan, which is in the verse, translated as "only":

Matthew 9:21 For she kept saying to herself, “If only I touch his cloak, I will be healed.”

So there is no intrinsic meaning to the word to where it has to mean some especially exclusive situation, and it could mean something like "this instance of God who is the One beyond doubt trustworthy to keep promises and in who's name I can myself make a reliable promise concerning a subject of the utmost importance to the hearers of it, being eternal life."

reply to post by Joecroft

The connection just seems obvious to me…

I meant that you were stretching it out a bit to say that we are all gods and that Jesus being a person is also a god, just like everyone else. That part is not clear, at least to me, that the verse in Psalms means that.
I think he was making a backhanded insult to them and pointing out that they were failures at being good leaders and did not like being shown up by someone who was good. There isn't something there that seems universal to include everyone. Maybe there is but you are not drawing it out to make it readily apparent.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I meant that you were stretching it out a bit to say that we are all gods and that Jesus being a person is also a god, just like everyone else. That part is not clear, at least to me, that the verse in Psalms means that.

Oh I see…

Well, I don’t think Jesus is trying so much to point out that we are Gods, but more to show that we are all Gods children. I see it, as more as Jesus saying “we are all Children of God, so why can’t I (Jesus) be called “Son of God”, seeing as the Father/God has set me apart as his very own”

I see it as Jesus drawing some parallels, but also pointing out the differences between himself and the Pharisees.


- JC

reply to post by Blue_Mage

Originally posted by Blue_Mage
Like I said earlier we already hit the stalemate of this subject. I view the Truth and you view the message of the tempter

Deuteronomy 13:1 The entire word that I command you, that shall you observe to do; you shall not add to it and you shall not subtract from it. [2] If there should stand up in your midst a prophet or a dreamer of a dream, and he will produce to you a sign or a wonder, [3] and the sign or the wonder comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying "Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them!7quot; [4] do not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of a dream, for HASHEM, your G-d, is testing you to know whether you love HASHEM, your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul. [5] HASHEM, your G-d, shall you follow and Him shall you fear; His commandments shall you observe and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve and to Him shall you cleave. [6] And that prophet and that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death, for he had spoken perversion against HASHEM, your G-d Who takes you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeems you from the house of slavery to make you stray from the path on which HASHEM, you G-d, has commanded you to go; and you shall destroy the evil from your midst. (Artscroll)

Article Source

But Jesus doesn’t fit the description of point 3, where it states he will say, “"Let us follow gods of others that you did not know and we shall worship them”

Jesus wasn’t trying to get people to follow false Gods they’d never heard of , he was trying to get them to follow the God/Father i.e. the God of the Old Testament. It can’t get any clearer, not just from his teachings but from his consistent quoting of the Old Testament about God.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


You do know that I using my other profile added the entire verse to make a statement. My statement still stands Jesus was a liar and deceiver. Actually Jesus was widely worshiped as an individual when he was alive. Worship other then G-D is consider wrong.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
You do know that I using my other profile added the entire verse to make a statement.

I’m not sure I follow you…
You have 2 profiles?

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
My statement still stands Jesus was a liar and deceiver. Actually Jesus was widely worshiped as an individual when he was alive. Worship other then G-D is consider wrong.

So Jesus quoting the Old Testament and praying to the same God, who the Jewish people believe in, makes him a liar and a deceiver, strange logic!

But haven’t you learned anything from this thread so far? It is men who are setting up Jesus as being equal to God. Jesus on the other hand, is telling us that he is a servant of God, and that to believe in him, is to believe in the one who sent him i.e. God/Father. Jesus doesn’t point towards himself, he points us in the direction of God/Father.

Anyway, I think the question in your OP has been answered, Jesus is not praying to himself, he is praying to the almighty Father God of the Old Testament. And from what has been pointed out so far on this thread, Jesus is certainly not claiming to be the Father/God.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

So Jesus quoting the Old Testament and praying to the same God, who the Jewish people believe in, makes him a liar and a deceiver, strange logic!

You're not seeing the entire picture. The New Testament misquotes verses from the Torah and goes against the Torah.

But haven’t you learned anything from this thread so far? It is men who are setting up Jesus as being equal to God. Jesus on the other hand, is telling us that he is a servant of God, and that to believe in him, is to believe in the one who sent him i.e. God/Father. Jesus doesn’t point towards himself, he points us in the direction of God/Father.

Still people worship this false Messiah even when he was alive during his life time? I see G-D no where near this deceiver.

Anyway, I think the question in your OP has been answered, Jesus is not praying to himself, he is praying to the almighty Father God of the Old Testament. And from what has been pointed out so far on this thread, Jesus is certainly not claiming to be the Father/God.

Anyhow I'm glad I don't believe in Jesus. I hate the lies Christians and Muslims are taught to believed in their life.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Joecroft

 

You do know that I using my other profile added the entire verse to make a statement. My statement still stands Jesus was a liar and deceiver. Actually Jesus was widely worshiped as an individual when he was alive. Worship other then G-D is consider wrong.

I suppose you can do that.
Technically this type of hoaxing is allowable by ATS.
Here's what I found in the Terms of Use:
16c.) Multiple Accounts: You will not create multiple user accounts and "talk to yourself."
So, as long as you don't have a fake conversation between romantic rebel and blue mage then you can get away with using two identities.
I guess you are a Muslim dude who does not know English so well but likes to stir up hatred against Jews for fun and to make libelous accusations against Christians and to Muslims as I guess a smoke screen to hide your true intent. So at least I know to ignore anything you write, in both identities, from now on.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Thanks for the comment. I'm a real Jews and I will never ever be a Muslim or a Christian. I guess you know you lost the argument and want to have remorse for your sins to G-D. Just pray and ask G-D to forgive you.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


No, you're not anything.
Just a child's amusment to make grown-ups look silly.
Just a toy, like your avatar.
Hah Hah, real funny *not*