Purgatory

I was doing some thinking about Purgatory and what it means to different people. What are your opinions on purgatory? I personally think it exists, because I don't follow the belief that all sins are equal in God's eyes, and I don't believe you have no chance at redemption after you die (unless you committed really bad sins, but stuff like taking the Lord's name in vain? No.)

I don't believe that you have to devote your entire mortal life to God, and if you don't you're screwed when you die. I like to think that theres a place for redemption after we pass away. We pray for the dead for a reason, I think, and that reason is so that they will find God if they haven't already.

But I was just wondering what other people think about purgatory.

Purgatory was created by the catholic church to scare people into paying for elaborate cermonies for there passed loved ones. There is no such place. There is a place for redemption and you on it right now. Our souls are infinte but our memory is not.

Yeah the Catholics made it up a long time ago. Although, there is somthing similar that is only in 2 places of the Bible, it talks about somthing called the outer realm I believe, some guy had a vision were he said he had died, and he was with like millions of people, looking towards a beutiful city, he asked a guy where he was at, and he said the outer realm, he said what are you doing and he said the only thing we can do look into Heaven, it wasn't hell, but not Heaven, I don't know if I believe this, but as far getting into heaven, if you are saved, that is were you are going.

The outer realm story doesn't ring a bell. But there is no such place as purgatory. Jesus said ' "It is finished" while on the cross. He meant the payment for sin required by God was completed in Him.

I personally like the idea of purgatory.
The whole notion of people on earth doing their part for those that have passed seems neat to me.

I dont know if I believe in it, but I would still do it (even though.. im not catholic lol)

A nice way of showing respect, and I think the soul in the afterlife would get some kind of peace from it, regardless of where they are.

Purgatory as believed by the RCC is a place of purification. Of all the souls not damned to hell few are in the state of perfection needed to enter heaven.

These souls are referred to as the Holy Souls since ultimately they will be in heaven, at which point they have attained purity and perfection. It is also believed that once in purgatory, these souls are helpless to assist themselves in alleviating their condition, but that souls still on earth have great powers to release these souls through prayers and devotions. (Not that they are stuck until someone does something, but that their penance can be lessened through prayers, masses and devotions offered on their behalf by the living.) Actually, as Catholics we are obligated to help assist these souls, but sadly these days this is almost fogotten/unknown.

Oh, and by the way, there are plenty of private devotions in the RCC that do not require a dime be spent for this purpose.

I believe in Purgatory, and pray for the Holy Sous there. Numerous Catholic saints, seers and religious have received visions of Purgatory, received communications from souls in purgatory, and some actually visited Purgatory.

"Some imagine that the Catholic Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine: (1) that a purification after death exists, (2) that it involves some kind of pain, and (3) that the purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God. Other ideas, such that purgatory is a particular "place" in the afterlife or that it takes time to accomplish, are speculations rather than doctrines."

(See: www.catholic.com... )


The modern day seer Christina Gallagher has seen Purgatory many times:

www.christinagallagher.org...


The Venerable Mary Ann Lindmayer, a Carmelite mystic, received numerous revelations and visions of Purgatory. Here are a few exerpts from her descriptions of them:

"On May 15th, after Holy Communion in the Jesuit church I was taken into Purgatory. I saw ahead of me a gigantic pit of which I could not see the finish because it was in a state of total darkness. Nevertheless I was able to determine that this pit was occupied, but I cannot describe its exact shape. It seems to me that from one end to the other there was a state of great disorder and a horrible smell, like a pigsty.

I had to remain there for a long time, even though it made me feel very nauseous. After this I saw another place, on the right hand side, but close by to the monstrous pit. This place appeared to me similar to a mill wheel, from which swelling water was cascading. But it was a cascade of fire, which was falling off, and I was astonished that there could be a cascade of fiery water.

But when I came back to myself, I understood: the deep endless pit was hell; the cascade, was Purgatory where poor souls are plunged as in a fiery water. From my dealings with the Souls in Purgatory I clearly saw that they are fully united to the will of God; that they are extremely patient in their sufferings; that they are really happy to have escaped hell- much deserved by their sins during their lifetime- and to find themselves in Purgatory. I wish that we on earth could emulate this resignation in our sufferings and adversities because, then, we would not be able to find impatience on this earth.

It was also revealed to me that to the Holy Souls, 1 hour seems longer than 20 years of extreme suffering on this earth. I also understood that even if we could arrange for them to get out of Purgatory and to go to Heaven, although not completely purified, the Holy Souls would rather stay until judgment day than appear before God even with the smallest stain.

I saw, among the Dear Souls in Purgatory, a patience beyond words, and I learned from them to accept obedience lovingly. I realised how, through the application of this holy virtue, we can help them and render them great service and quickly. Oh yes, we can indeed call them Holy, the Holy Souls of Purgatory, since they are full of love for God. They burn more with the love of God and the desire to be with Him who is so good and to rejoice in His presence. This fire of love burns them more than the fire of punishment.

Another time, I saw Purgatory as a prison of fire, as a place where the fire is frightening. All the fires of the world united could not compare to it, and the poor souls were plunged into it like sparks. They are so numerous that my eyes could not embrace at a glance the entire multitude, so vast it is.

Shortly after, Purgatory was shown to me as a large fishpond in which there were a great multitude of fishes. These fishes were entirely white and were tending their open mouths towards me. It was indicated to me that I should refresh them by the tears of my eyes and the blood of Jesus-Christ, by offering it for them. It was also told to me that I should spread salt over them. I did not understand this right away, until it was explained to me: I had to do good deeds and offer them for these poor Souls.

To give an idea of the vast number of these poor Souls, God made me see Purgatory in the form of an anthill. I asked why the Souls were shown to me in this way. I was given to understand that an anthill has a outer cover so we cannot actually see the great number of ants inside. But if we stir it with a stick, or if we put smoke to it, the ants will come out by the thousands. I realized from this that there were in Purgatory, many, many Souls hidden from our eyes, as in a covered anthill as I had just seen.

It was really on this account that so much eagerness towards me was shown by these Souls. It was His mercy that was revealing the reality of the countless souls in Purgatory. Christ wanted to show plainly that very few people really care about the Souls in Purgatory in a way that helps them. He was using me, as it were, as the end of a stick to stir up the anthill, for me to see in Purgatory the hidden crowd of Souls that we think are already in Heaven.

I was again told that I should consider the very brief time of these sufferings which, when in reality, compared to eternity, is nothing but a short instant. Or again, to consider the infinite reward that Heaven will be after these sufferings. To gain Heaven means that we shall suffer. Now, most people do not suffer since they do not believe in this virtue that we have to do penance to expiate our sins. So, it cannot be otherwise: they will be retained for a long time in this place.

On March 10th 1714, it was also revealed to me that in the Holy state of marriage a lot of great sins are committed. That�s why God punishes many severely already in this life, but more severely still in the next life. There many married people are damned because they did not live as they should have in accordance with their state.

The poor Souls showed me that in the next life all is calculated with an absolute precision and that in this life it is most difficult to comprehend. At the beginning I was often astounded that there could be so many Souls in Purgatory, and for so long, while we believed them to be long since in Eternal joy.

The stay in Purgatory can often last hundreds of years. All this led me to understand how very much God is offended by sin. All that has not been expiated in this life has to be expiated in the next.

In 1704, I was visited by a Soul. It was the Soul of a deceased person, dead for 15 years. During her life, she was known to be a pious woman. She told me: "We don�t make it to Heaven so quickly"; it is also a suffering that people consider you a saint, because not enough effort is made to pray for you."

The only version of the pulgatory that I like is the one by Dante whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!facinating.

I think this is the correct thread....

A Sister (nun), Maria Lopez received revelations from fellow Sisters
who were still in Purgatory. I think she might of "seen" one of them on
occasion. And Maria heard from her immediate family from Purgatory
too.

It reminds you, even after repenting and confessing our sins, we still
have to account, make reparation for what we do, little things and
major. Remember the verse in Scripture..."love covers many sins."
Good thing. If we don't make reparation for our confessed mortal and venial sins here by our loving acts, sufferings and prayers
we do them over the veil.

This is kind of a long page to paste so here's the link:


Warnings and Voices From Beyond the Grave

avalon44.tripod.com...

Originally posted by colbe
I think this is the correct thread....

A Sister (nun), Maria Lopez received revelations from fellow Sisters
who were still in Purgatory. I think she might of "seen" one of them on
occasion. And Maria heard from her immediate family from Purgatory
too!

It reminds you, even after repenting and confessing our sins, we still
have to account, make reparation for what we do, little things and
major. Remember the verse in Scripture..."love covers many sins."
Good thing. If we don't make reparation for our confessed mortal and venial sins here by our loving acts, sufferings and prayers
we do them over the veil.

This is kind of a long page to paste so here's the link:


Warnings and Voices From Beyond the Grave

avalon44.tripod.com...

This is why Catholics attempt to debunk the Protestant heresies and rejections of revealed Truth not out of "told you so" but for those believing things that aren't true, what a shock it will be at death.

Purgatory exists.

I can't take....

Jesus did it all on the Cross, He's atoned for your sins.

Once Saved Always Saved

Are you "Saved" yet?

You only have to have faith and you're justified.

Those 4...and it's straight up!

What a lie.

Purgatory is a doctrine heretics don't like. But there is scriptural evidence for it. Even ignoring scripture, the early church fathers believed it, and they were educated by the apostles, so the protestant claims that it is made up over time are silly. Either the church was corrupt starting with the apostles, or protestants are wrong.

If you die in a state of mortal sin you will go to hell; if you are saved you will go to purgatory to pay for you venial sins. Nothing unholy enters heaven, and purgatory is a place of purification. I pray every prayer praying that I have the grace to escape purgatory.

Some believe that there is no one imperfect in heaven, as you are in union with God, and that purgatory is a place you go until you reach the state of perfection by the graces received from those praying for you.

For example:
If you have a tongue that uses vulgar language don't you think that might have to change before you get to heaven?

Why would this bible verse exist if there was no purgatory?


2 Maccabees 12:46 "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins."

reply to post by colbe


I don't believe the saying "Once saved always saved." Sadly, some people do renounce their faith. It happens all the time.

I think about purgatory on occasion and although I am not Christian, I do think a limbo state is possible.

I do not subscribe to the catholic concept of praying for someone to get into heaven....that seems strange to me.

If purgatory does exist, I do not think any amount of my prayers will make the deceased become purified. Prayers may help, but that sounds like "praying away the gay" I just don't see that working.

I think it is up to the deceased to purify themselves by bathing in their own sorrows until they understand the error of their ways.....they are doomed to be chained to their mistakes and be reminded of their sins, over and over again until they repent. That is why ghosts are often stuck at the scene of their worst crimes or they repeat a certain behavior over and over until they realize why it was wrong.

But then again, I never paid a ton of attention at mass, and I only went when I was young so I very well may misunderstand this concept!

Here is my question about purgatory......

Ok, so most if not all Protestants do not believe in purgatory, and yet many Protestants believe in ghosts........how is that possible? What do they think ghosts are, and why would they be lingering on earth, if purgatory does not exist????

I am not Protestant, so I have always been curious about that one.....what does the Protestant churches say about ghosts?

I'm not religious at all and have no desire to be a part of any religion or follow any deity, plus I was not raised in any religion and none of my family members have ever believed anything.

On the other hand, I admit I think Heaven, Purgatory and Hell could be real and worry sometimes that I may not get into Heaven. If they are real, I'd like to visit them in dreams over separate days and recall every detail to write down (possibly to post on ATS) and then make up my mind what to do if I'm told where I'm going when I die and how to avoid going there if it isn't Heaven.

Obviously I would never write any of this down unless I had the visions because I hate fraudulent stories myself but cool concepts.

Originally posted by Mijamija
I think about purgatory on occasion and although I am not Christian, I do think a limbo state is possible.

I do not subscribe to the catholic concept of praying for someone to get into heaven....that seems strange to me.

If purgatory does exist, I do not think any amount of my prayers will make the deceased become purified. Prayers may help, but that sounds like "praying away the gay" I just don't see that working.

I think it is up to the deceased to purify themselves by bathing in their own sorrows until they understand the error of their ways.....they are doomed to be chained to their mistakes and be reminded of their sins, over and over again until they repent. That is why ghosts are often stuck at the scene of their worst crimes or they repeat a certain behavior over and over until they realize why it was wrong.

But then again, I never paid a ton of attention at mass, and I only went when I was young so I very well may misunderstand this concept!

Here is my question about purgatory......

Ok, so most if not all Protestants do not believe in purgatory, and yet many Protestants believe in ghosts........how is that possible? What do they think ghosts are, and why would they be lingering on earth, if purgatory does not exist????

I am not Protestant, so I have always been curious about that one.....what does the Protestant churches say about ghosts?

Mijam,

About praying for someone. How do we talk to God? And what does
God wish? We speak to God in prayer and this is His great desire,
that we draw close to Him. There it is prayer is beneficial. Since
God is perfect, He doesn't need anything. Prayer is beneficial to
us.

God's plan is the family, so we must think of ourselves in the big
family of God which includes the saints in Heaven, the souls in Purgatory
and us here. Look at all the prayer that can go on within the family.


blessings,

colbe

There are a lot of verses in Scripture about Purgatory, some in the
Old Testament. Go to www.scripturecatholic.com...

It's a great site, the verse isn't listed itself. You see the Chapter named
and the verse, then, explanation, the meaning of the verse pertaining
to various subjects of faith. Check out Purgatory.

There is one verse in the Gospel I recall, Our Lord's words about
Purgatory. To explain...


Matthew 5:26
Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.


We know God is perfectly loving, He is perfectly just too. Everyone
must with from the heart true contrition, repent of and confess your
sins (mortal) to God. God forgives us then. But, we still have to make
reparation for our sins. We do it here by our loving acts, sufferings
and prayers. If we haven't made full reparation here, we do it over the veil in Purgatory.

The meaning of Our Lord's words in Matthew 5:26, we will not
get into Heaven until we are completely purified.

www.astroccult.net... Reincarnation/karma
openlibrary.org... -life beyond death


Had trouble finding the pdf for second book, just go to there and download the pdf if interested. It is a pain since every page has to load but I couldn't find another free version.

I believe there is no purgatory, heaven, or hell, as in specific place in the sky in heaven or down below in hell . I do believe though that you could be in either of those places depending on your mood. For example if you are suffering you could say your in hell or if your joyous you could say your in heaven. One idea which seems logical to me an is explained in depth in the above books if your interested, is that when your physical body dies, you then carry on life in your astral body, on the astral plane, and your thought forms what you find there. In the words of the above author (not exact just my memory) "the savage finds his happy hunting ground". He had a few more examples, but I dont remember them exactly so heres a few of my own. The suicide bomber would find his virgins, and people would find there idea of heaven or hell, depending which one they feel they deserved. In one of his books on the astral plane, he claims that advanced occultists who can travel on the astral plane can come across people in thier various heavens. He describes a few as well, for example one were some christians/catholics are enjoying thier heaven while watching some people burn in hell, because that is what they beleive. For a different perspective on Jesus and his teachings, read

consciouslivingfoundation.org...
and for more info on the astral plane read life beyond death, more specific to your question read the chapter 'astral heavens and hells'

I noticed alot of people quoting scripture. Just remember that the bible has been translated from other languages, and in the process meaning can be lost or changed. Also how do you know who wrote it?

God is a name we give to the causeless cause of everything. Logically the causeless cause would be All-Knowing or Omniscient , as all knowledge would have proceeded from God, All-Powerful or Omnipotent, these two I can understand, although Omniprescence I beleive to be true, but do not understand well enough to state it as fact. I obtained this information from william walker atkinson books, and I admit he has shaped many of my beliefs. He has a certain style and personality, but it is the logical information that I go for in his books.
If you read the first chapter of www.awakening-intuition.com... youll find the above. Another one about the nature of reality I found great iswww.yogebooks.com... . Contains Axioms of Reality.

If you watch the religious TV channels you'll see that during out-of-body experiences only Catholics get to visit Purgatory. Also, if you don't belong to any of the Abrahamic faiths, your experience won't involve visions of any Hell, but it'll be pleasant or unpleasant, according to your state of mind and beliefs. This means that you had better watch out about what you choose to believe because that's what will create your reality in the Beyond.