I get it now. It's all about fear. Please consider what I have to say.

It is often said that fear is a powerful motivator. I have recently learned through painful experience how true that is, and the magnitude to which fear controls even our most rudimentary decision making processes. To explain this, I will need to be open about some very personal issues here, but I am willing to bite the bullet and do so in order to make the point I will conclude this thread with. I hope it’s worth opening myself to potential ridicule. I believe it is. You may feel differently.

What I am about to say is merely an example, albeit a real-life one. It may not seem to have any relevance to your own life, or to politics, or to conspiracies, but I truly believe it is. Please read fully and consider.

I should state for the record that I know a thing or two about fear, including irrational fear. I suffer from social anxiety disorder. If you aren’t familiar with this, it is a psychological disorder causing moderate to severe anxiety during social interaction or when sufficient people are present in the proximity of the sufferer. It is not the same as agoraphobia, which is an acute fear of open spaces. It is something I have dealt with for some time, and although I continue to make strides toward not letting it disproportionately impact my life, it is still something I deal with on a daily basis. It isn’t anywhere near as severe as it is for many less fortunate sufferers. I can go out and conduct whatever business I need to, go shopping, etc. But it is still more of a challenge than it would be for someone not as socially awkward or anxious as I am. I say all of that only because it will help to justify and explain the context in which the aforementioned “painful experience” I recently had which has taught me just how governed by fear so many people actually are. Please note that because of this, for many years I was fairly isolated from people. As a consequence of this, I have been somewhat naive to many things considered normal or taken for granted in society at large. So please excuse any of that naivete that shines through in this post.

I have been in therapy for some time for my anxiety. I started this therapy because I wanted to face and overcome my fears, so that they would not negatively impact my life to the same degree that they had for so many years. I am fortunate enough to have a compassionate and open-minded therapist who understands that the goal is not to make me “normal,” but rather to give me the coping tools necessary to help me be happy and anxiety-free on my own terms, and in accordance with my own personal beliefs and principles. One of those beliefs and principles is that I will treat others with compassion and acceptance regardless of any material factor, i.e. how they dress, what ethnicity they are, etc. It’s perfectly fine if other people don’t agree with those principles, but that is how I have chosen to live my life.

In any event, one day my therapist and I were discussing my anxieties, and it was explained to me that in our society, there are two major factors in achieving a level of social “comfort.” The first being a lack of acute and overwhelming anxiety, i.e. my continuing efforts to overcome my issues, and the second being “social acceptance.” While my therapist is, as I said, fine with me being myself as I try to overcome my social anxiety, she noted that it might be easier for me if I changed the way I dressed. It wasn’t a mandatory statement on her part; just a suggestion.

I should explain that I dress for comfort, and humility. That’s just part of who I am. It isn’t part of a mental issue. I wear sweats and T-shirts because *gasp, shock* that’s what I like to wear. I don’t concern myself with how I look or fashion. I bathe and take care of hygiene of course, but when it comes to what I wear on the outside - apart from work clothes of course, because then I’m being paid - I just can’t possibly be bothered. I couldn’t care less. I don’t believe in “presenting” myself. I instead choose to “be" myself. So this suggestion took me a moment to process. I asked what was meant by it, and the reply was that people often make judgments about others based on their clothing choices and might make social acceptance, and therefore a reduction of my anxiety, more challenging. I already knew that, but I was a bit taken aback by it being mentioned by a therapist. As far as I’m concerned, how someone dresses is irrelevant. I know not everyone feels that way, which is fine, but this is my life I’m talking about, not anyone else’s. So my reply was, “Well, that’s fine. I accept that challenge. I’m not changing how I dress to please other people.” My therapist agreed, and that was that.

Now, in my opinion, that should have been the end of it. However, when some of my “friends” got wind of this from me later, I was surprised to find that they were literally aghast at my choice. “Appearance is important in our society.” “It’s offensive if you dress that way ALL the time.” “You wouldn’t even dress up to go out with us somewhere, even if we did?” These were all responses I received. To which I responded that, no, I would not dress up socially. That just isn’t me. It’s okay if they want to, but how I dress isn’t affecting anyone else around me unless they’re so shallow that I honestly wouldn’t want to socialize with them anyway. That’s when the revelation happened. My friends seemed literally horrified, shocked, and appalled.

“But it does affect us. If you go out with us, and we go to the trouble of dressing up, and you don’t, it looks bad.” I asked how. “We’ll all be dressed up, and you won’t. Think how that looks to people.” I asked why it matters what other people think. “You’re being selfish, because people aren’t like you. They DO care how we dress.”

And there was the rub. My friends, who for my part I would accept and love unconditionally regardless of such concerns, were embarrassed by the way I dressed. They were afraid of what other people would think of them. Moreover, they were actually angry at me for not giving in and conforming for their benefit. Over the next week, they spoke to me less and less, and eventually started avoiding me. One of them became so angry at me, that they cursed me out. Even some of my online friends, who I don’t even know on a face-to-face basis, seemed genuinely disturbed and angered by my stance. I was left thinking the same thing over and over: “Really? Over sweat pants?”

During my next therapy session, I explained what had happened, and asked for very specific examples of what exactly it is that people might think of someone who dresses the way I do. The therapist said, after I asked her to be blunt, “Some things people might think - and I don’t think this mind you, but you asked so I’m going to tell you - are: working out, lazy, or slob.” Now, maybe this is where the aforementioned naivete comes in, but I simply don’t understand how or why people feel they can make accurate judgments about others based solely upon how they’re dressed. The therapist suggested a compromise, saying that, for example, when she goes out she wears something she herself likes, but that would also be socially acceptable in her opinion. I asked why she cares whether it’s socially acceptable. She scratched her head for a moment, and thought about it, and then replied, “Well, I guess ultimately everyone is insecure in their own ways and to different degrees.”

That’s when it all clicked. It’s all about fear. And it doesn’t stop with our choice of clothing.
How many ad campaigns have you seen recently? How many of them extolled the virtues of their candidate? How many more focused on why you should be afraid of the other candidate winning? Which ones swayed you the most (if they swayed you at all)? Which ones do you honestly think sway less informed voters more?

Really think about it. How many decisions in your life - or if if you’re fortunate enough to be immune somehow, in the lives of other people you know - from what you/they wear, to what you/they eat and don’t eat, to what you/they vote for or against, to what you/they find fashionable, listen to, support, attack, defend, etc. are actually just the product of fear?

Well, I don’t know about anyone else. And I respect everyone’s right to choose for themselves what they want to do. But henceforth, I am making it my mission in life to make decisions based on what I truly want, and not on what I fear happening otherwise. I started seeing a therapist because I wanted to overcome fears. I still want to work with her to do that, and I will continue to do so. But I will not trade those fears for another set of fears (fear of lack of conformity.) That doesn’t make my life better, easier, or more enriched. It only gives me something else to fear, and a means of avoiding that fear rather than facing it (dressing to please others rather than the way I want to dress.)

My example is just that: an example. But as I said, really ask yourself: how much of your life or the lives of those around you are governed by fear? I want to face and overcome my fears, not be governed by them. That will be a great challenge, and might take me years to achieve. But I think that’s a challenge worth undertaking. Dressing fashionably to please others, for me at least, isn’t. Nor is voting for a candidate because I’m afraid of the other one winning. Nor is voting against a measure because while I might agree with it in principle, someone has raised doubts in people’s minds about potential complications arising from it.

I hope opening up about myself in this way has made some people think, at least. If people disagree with me, which I expect and welcome, please have the courtesy to do so with civility and compassion. I've had about as much of being made to feel "weird" for my life choices as I can tolerate this month. Your decorum is appreciated.

Peace.

There is a lot of fresh thinking in your post Ace.

I personally like to dress up abit more than sweats and a tshirt. However, for me, polo shirt and jeans is IT.

I have to put on dress shoes and slacks to be part of some event? Count on me not being there. If what I wear is SO important to someone that they REQUIRE me to dress a certain way or they don't want to see me at all, hey, I already know everything I need to know about those people and would not waste any time with them anyways.

I think one of the fears you are experiencing here is actually OTHERS fears. I believe that being nervous and fearful when in social situations(happens to me as well) is not so much something that originates internally.

I think there are two major elements(one of them a conspiracy/NWO type of element) that play into what is a quickly growing group of people who fear social situations.

Let me try to explain.

1. I believe that the fear you experience(or more specifically I have disagnosed these same fears that I experience in social situations) as a a result of being a very intelligent and sensitive person. It is very widely documented that some of the greatest minds of our time also tended to be some of the biggest HERMITS of our time. Why? Theres lots of explanation, but here is the one I believe in. These people who feel a NEED(understand its not a WANT so much as a NEED) to be in social situations(I will call them socialites for simplicity), I have seen some common threads with them. First and foremost, they are INCREDIBLY insecure and fearful of rejection. MUCH more so than you. They NEED to go to these social events because they CRAVE the acceptance of others. This needfulness and fear of rejection makes them quite fragile creatures. When at these events, they feel this great NEED to be accepted by the others in the group, hence why they are there, however they go throughout the majority of the event with dread, fearing a wardrobe malfunction, speaking faux pas, or anyrthing else that may have them rejected by the crowd. I believe that this nervous energy in the crowd from all these very needy individuals is easily detected and absorbed by an intelligent and sensitive individual. You are simply picking up on cues in the crowd, and you start to feel others insecurities, causing you discomfort. Now keep in mind, these socialites who NEED this scene to go well in order to feel acceptance and hence mentally balance themselves until their next 'hit'.... they are on some level conscious of their own weakness. However, while your discomfort is eased by being removed from these situations, theirs is only relieved by being IN them. So by voicing your discomfort/dislike for these situations, and more importantly by voicing your disdain for needing to dress appropriately(and thus your lack of NEED to be accepted by the crowd in order to feel good), you are introducing in your friends 2 NEW fears. One that you may be more balanced mentally than they are and what does that mean for their mental health as they age further, and two that if you may be thinking of removing yourself from these social situations in the future, that is indeed an even smaller pool of friends from which they can feed their need for acceptance and approval from in their little dog-and-pony shows. Also of note: It is telling that their reaction to your honest discussion of your issue was met not with pats on the back or support, but by anger, name calling, cursing, and one even not wanting to be around you. You see, the people who fall ill of this ailment your friends do, they fear what the most? Rejection. And so in thinking this they feel that everyone must have a dreadful fear of it, and so they turn it to you when you state these things that threaten them in those ways I listed. They simply believe if it works on them, it will work on you and you will conform.

My friend, your ailment isn't an ailment. It's a sign that you are significantly more intelligent than the people you surround yourself with. Do not abandon your friends. They need you more than you need them. But it may be time to add some more intelligent friends of your own.

2. The other, larger issue at hand here is what causes so many to fall victim to what your friends fall victim to: They NEED social situations, they NEED to constantly be validated by others. They are, in short, so much more needy than people used to be.

Consider for a moment that we live out our lives inside a body and a mind. In this case, lets focus on the mind. Now to put everyone in the right frame of mind for this mind discussion consider this: We live in a world where even lay users have learned to HYPNOTIZE other humans in a very direct manner. There will be NO discussion of validity with me on this point. It works. Let me give you a quick story. About 5 years ago my girlfriend and I went to a comedy club where, for comedy sake, a man was hypnotizing people on stage. He picked my GF out from the crowd and proceeded to work his magic on her. He hypnotized her so that whenever she touched her own forehead she would have an orgasm. He told her it would last until she woke the next day. Now let me tell you from 6-7 hours of experience that night: It WORKED, and we DAMN WELL had a good time with it. Hypnosis is REAL.

I bring up this point because it highlights how easily humans are programmed from simply the right talk...in the right cadence...with the right words....

Our minds are QUITE fragile. It is a sad but true fact of life. And we are surrounded by Corporations, Governments and intelligence agencies who have both noble and nefarious reasons to make use of what is frankly, very simple techniques, intended to drive us as a group in a direction. Their intentions have been made clear: We are to be nervous, frustrated, fearful little creatures who believe that we are very small, and our leaders are very wise and so forth. Why? Corporations do it so that we will constantly buy product to fix our lives which we are made to believe are SO VERY BAD without their product. Governments do it so we will constantly believe that we need to give them more authority and more money so that Big Ol Them can save Lil Ol Us. Intelligence agencies do it to convince us to tell them whatever information they need to know at the time or to make sure we DO NOT UNITE IN GROUPS TO REBEL, and this is the main point for this discussion. This technique, through whatever media it is delivered, is what drives us to fear social situations, it is what drives us to fear thy neighbor, it is why the birth rate is down, marriages fail at an alarmingly accelerated rate, and why so many 30 somethings have never been married and may never be. The side affects of divide and conquer are at work, in every bar, every coffee shop, every workplace.

The message being indoctrinated into the people are 2fold: 1. FEAR being rejected by the group and 2. The group will reject you if you don't follow the rules.

You can see how the powers that be benefit from both mindsets.

Sorry to get into such a tangent but I thought I should share with you a couple conclusions I have found from your post:

1. What you are seeing a shrink for is not a problem of yours. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The problem is virtually everyone else you have surrounded yourself with. If you start to see your mindset as part of the solution, a revolution that benefits you and all your friends could start with you.

2. If you can see things this way, you have awoken. And if you have friends you really trust, you can share this with them. And just maybe one of them will awake as well. I can tell you from experience I have 1 friend who has recently 'awoke' this way and hanging out with him is so much easier than any of my other friends. We watch the world run on its mouse wheel, sometimes with sadness, and sometimes with great amusement.

Wearing sweat pants in the middle of a fancy dress
is OK, if you want to be the center of attention
and you have chutzpah to pull it off.

Here is a video of Bill Cosby
who tackles the whole
issue head on.


David Grouchy

...ace - i think your therapist needs more therapy than you do... yeah, i know, thats probably not fair since i only know that one thing about her - but - hey, that one thing is a biggie, imo...

...fear - yep, you nailed that one... are you sure you need therapy?... with your common sense approach, i'm sittin here thinking i wish you were my therapist... i dont have one but sometimes i could sure use one, just to have someone to unload on with full immunity...

...about the society anxiety disorder - i had something sort of like that after my SO died suddenly... he was only 51... for months, i couldnt go anywhere without someone needing to share their sympathy or memories of him... it was hell... one day i decided to stop being afraid of running into insensitive jerks or hurting their feelings by laying down my boundaries... amazingly, i only had to be agressive with a two people...

...another quick story... i know two men that were horridly burned when they were young... their scars are the first thing you see when you meet them the first time - but - there is something so incredibly special about their personalities that the scars soon just seem to fade away... they have beautiful wives (inside and out) and the most loving kids i've ever been around... point is - who you appear to be on the outside has nothing to do with who you really are...

...thx for sharing you... it brightened my night...

What is 'it'?

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

I saw your post on another thread, really connected w what you said. The comments isn't on on your profile, so here is some food for thought:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by AceWombat04
It is often said that fear is a powerful motivator.

Fear is not only a powerful motivator.

Fear is a catalyst which gets a civilization from point A to point C,
at which point fear becomes a liability.

Ace, I absolutely LOVED your post! It's so right on!

I happen to have the same fashion sense as you do in that I don't give a #(*$&% what people think about what I wear! I dress for ME, for MY comfort and if ANYONE has a problem with it, it's THEIR problem!

But onto the bigger issue of your post - FEAR - and how we are controlled by it from the time we are tiny. Even the social pressures of pre-school are the beginning of a lifetime of being made to feel uncomfortable or fearful if we don't conform to what is expected of us, whether that be what we're wearing, who we vote for, what we eat or what kind of car we drive. Nearly everything in our lives, we are taught to do to avoid danger or ridicule.

I agree with the poster that said your therapist may need therapy more than you do. Sounds like you're really thinking and using our mind for what it was meant for! Congratulations.

Thanks for the supportive and interesting replies.

The thing I find more ironic and frustrating about it all, is that I have no similar desire to force others - or even any expectation at all, really - to conform or even agree with my own choices. I see other people's fashion choices, and I can appreciate them and find beauty in them. Granted what I find beauty in might be a little bit more broad than some people would be comfortable with (I think it can be found from the bag lady to the beauty queen and everything in between,) it isn't my intent to assert that as an optimal or in any way superior way of thinking or behaving. I am completely accepting and even appreciative of others' fashion choices. In a way I see it as a form of subliminal art or something, and I think there's some virtue and beauty to be found in that.

In other words, I don't go around saying, "Ah ha, so everyone else are the crazy ones. I'm the one in the right." I don't feel that way at all. I completely respect and even enjoy the ways of people who don't think the way I do. I complement people on their garb all the time. I just don’t have a standard in place where if someone doesn’t meet it aesthetically, then they’re somehow unacceptable to me. That way of thinking just isn't for me personally. I just don’t care about aesthetics in that way, despite being able to appreciate them.

I don't think people understand that sometimes (or maybe I fail to communicate it effectively?) I think people tend to feel that my lack of concern with aesthetics for myself somehow invalidates the effort they put into it, and are threatened or offended by that on some unconscious level. That too, I suspect, is another function of fear.

What a great topic,
But don't we all conform to some extent?
You would have to drag me to hell and back to get me to wear heels. On the other hand I wouldn't go to someones Christmas party in my gardening clothes or gym gear.
When we decide how to behave or how to dress, you can't rule out a certain amount of social conditioning - however 'non conformist' one might be.
I think we are all at different points along the scale. My own rule is to be comfortable with myself and be able to live with how I am. So a messy inbetween point - if only life were conveniently black and white!

reply to post by starchild10


Yes, I think you're absolutely right. We're all on the same spectrum, and we all have different degrees of avoidance of pain, which is essentially what fear is I think. For example, I won't do something illegal because the consequence is something I find unacceptable; jail or a fine. But I will refrain from aesthetically confirming to please others, despite the potential consequences of that being negative too, albeit in a different way and a different context.

It's ultimately down to what you can live with, I think. Which is why I try not to judge others for their differing choices on this issue. They're just doing what they think is best for their wellbeing. I do wish as a whole, though, that we were all less fear oriented, and more free to act on other instincts, feelings, or possibly even better (in my opinion at least,) thoughts.

reply to post by AceWombat04

Just wanted to chime in to say you're on the right path. The very fact that you're treating issues in your life seriously and taking responsibility for your self-improvement leads me to the prediction that things are going to improve with you over time.

Best of luck.

reply to post by AceWombat04


I had to star you for the sheer bravery it took to post this, and I flagged you for the intelligent, well thought out, objective and yet introspective explanation of the experience and conclusions you have drawn from it.

I would like to put another ingredient in the pot however. I tend to look at things from a 'biology first' point of view. I would respectfully ask that you reconsider a little empathy for your 'friends' or ex-friends, as the case may be, who reacted so irrationally. I'm not condoning their behavior, or even saying that you have any obligation to consider keeping them around; if people are behaving causitically toward you, you have every right to and probably should avoid contact with them.

But just for a moment, please consider...

You're right. Absolutely... Fear is one of the primary motivators for social conformity. We are social beings. We are hardwired to blend in with the group. This is basic (very basic) biology screaming to your friends that you are making them a target for 'predators', or (more commonly) negatively affecting their 'rank' within the group. Rank within the group can translate to a fear of being actually expelled from the group, or at least pushed to the 'fringes' (literally and in a modern context, figuratively) of it; which can then make them a target for the 'lions' out there as well. However, rank is primarily coveted for The Best Choice. The best choice of... Food, sleeping place, safety by protection from and within the group (more 'lions'), shelter, etc... But mostly... Best Choice of Mate, and since reproduction biologically speaking is The Point this will make many hyper sensitive to anything that can even remotely threaten that. So... Prone to responses that are really reactionary, possibly hostlile and generally silly.

So, you're right. It's shallow because it's deep, and what I mean by that is that what you are dealing with are manifestations in a modern context of very old, reptile-brain-monkey-boy drives that shouldn't make much sense, but they apply because the vast majority is like that. I'm sorry, but there is no getting away from the bio-chemistry and how it shapes society and 'culture'.

In essence, because you are presenting yourself with a group of friends in a way that may be socially slightly off kilter, you are threatening their rank within the group. If they do not feel secure enough socially to overcome that, or secure enough to ultimately survive without the group, they will try to force you to conform or not tolerate you. Yup. All over sweat pants.

At any rate. My two cents. Good post, and good luck.

reply to post by redhorse



Oh, I agree with you. Fear - especially fear in relation to social dynamics - is one of the oldest and most entrenched biological impulses we have. It's interesting you mention that actually, because that's one of the things we discuss a lot in therapy; how humans are ultimately social animals and that much of our behavior is the result of biological impulses that haven't changed much in a long, long time. We can't really talk about social and emotional factors without talking about the underlying biology in my opinion.

I do hold quite a bit of empathy for them. As I said in my response to starchild10, I feel that we're all on the same spectrum, and we all take measures to avoid pain, including social rejection, in our own ways and to different degrees. The way I'm choosing to deal with it is just different than the way they're choosing to. I have tried to carry on my relationships with them to the best of my ability, but unfortunately they have been avoiding me and just don't seem to want to give me the time of day anymore. I've very politely and carefully explained my feelings to them several times now, and asked that we still maintain friendships, but they have not as of yet reciprocated. So, sadly, I think unless they just need some time to accept it or something, this appears to be a deal-breaker for them. It's just that important to them.

Lex Luthor once said in a film: "Why do I surround myself with idiots." OP - THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. The first poster to your thread summed up the problem with swagger. Stop hanging around people who bring you down. They're not friends at all.

- Peace

reply to post by AceWombat04


I can relate to your mindset. Too many people are being swayed by the powers of peer pressure and vanity. I've never been much of a snappy dresser, and never will be. I'm a jeans and Tshirt kinda guy. Always have been. I did wear uniforms when I was required to, but as soon as I could, I was in and out of the shower and back into my everyday clothes. Usually these days I'm in sweats. I'm single, I live alone, I rarely go out, so I dress for comfort. I catch myself snickering at the fashion junkies and preppies. I don't judge them but I often wonder how complicated and repetitious their lives are. I imagine they are full of fear and anxiety. Always having to be the GQ cover photo every day, obsessing over their appearance, being afraid that society wil capture them in a moment of disarray and have to bear the guilt of their desheveled appearance (which could be as simple as a loose thread on their jacket). I had usually observed that people obsessed with their picture perfect appearance were masters of their giant ego. Their fears of being rejected or unacceptable to their peers... the time spent before the mirror making sure every hair is in place before they make their public appearance... the hours per week they spend putting a mirror shine on their shoes... their addictions to the latest fashions... the shallow personalities they have... the sanitized existence they unflinchingly follow...
Sure there are succesful and powerful people who are the GQ front page poster child, and it's all part of their overall character, yet I find many of them to be hyper-materialistic and profound status seekers. Many of them are too obsessed with the status quo. Their statement to the world that 'I am important somewhere'. I hate to break it to them but we are ALL important somewhere. As I have asked others "In your search for the Holy Grail, is the Grail your treasure? Or was it the journey of quest itself ?".

About 20 years ago I found myself in a 2 week stay at a local psyche hospital. During one of the group sessions I was asked why I was in that session. I replied "Well, just like everyone else in this room, I have trouble understanding everyone OUTSIDE this room. Are we the problem, or the solution? Why should WE have to 'deal with it' because we refuse to conform to a warped social concept?" Needless to say I was dismissed from the group for 'one on one counseling'. I fired my psychiatrist then, and that is when my attitude changed. I still have challenges fitting into society, yet I don't fret about it. I've been waging battle with depression for over 30 years and I'm still standing. I'm no social elite but I have self respect and dignity.
As a society we are taught to be sheep, and to follow the herd. It's a paradigm shift from the illusional independence and individual dignity we think we have. In order to be part of this society we must stick to the guidebook of how to dress, how to speak, how to work, what rules we need to follow to drive, travel, engage in interaction, perform our business, and what we do in our spare time. We are prodded and singled out as examples when we don't follow the rules or stray from the beaten path. But the rules are not designed by the people and for the people. They are social mechanisms to insure overall conformity to every aspect of societal mechanisms. Following the game plan is the reciprocal normality of the end product. We're groomed to be subservient and docile, and part of 'the machine' the engineers have pre-planned.
Many people go well out of their way to conform because they are afraid of the repercussions, whether it be right or wrong. As it was said (I don't know how exactly it was quoted) in the movie Equillibrium 'It is not the words or nature of the rules, but our dedication to it'.

reply to post by AceWombat04


I dont know Ace. I think you are overlooking the fact that we are animals and social animals to boot.

Of course we care how we look. (And dress) All social animals care about status and power. In our species we dont wave our penises out in the open any more, so clothing and cars give clues to our rank in the pack.

Bums get beat up. Poor people take a lot of crap. Lower ranking people and animals get ill more often, die younger, have worse immune systems and higher stress responses. (anxiety?)

While I understand you commentary on fear, and I even agree with it, I think you are being too simplistic.

I like to dress comfortably too. And I do. But I dont pretend Im not an animal who relies on visual cues to ascertain the relative status of the people around me. That doesnt mean I kow tow to label wearers. Not at all. (Often they are lower ranking pretenders) But I do pay attention to the visual clues, including clothing and overall healthiness and vigor of the people around me. Im an ape. Its part of what we do.

Im not sure how you think willing it away is useful.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I can't and don't ignore the fact that we are social animals, as you said, and as I said in my response to redhorse. I think any time we bring up social dynamics and fears, we have to take into account the evolutionary and biological factors. You are quite correct that those factors, and people making judgments based on clothing status has long been a part of our makeup.

I just aspire to be more than the sum of those parts - if I can - personally. I refuse to base how I treat others on aesthetic criteria in my own life, regardless of how normal or accepted doing so is to others. And regardless of whether people treat me with the same consideration.

...biology explains why you dress the way you do and how folks perceive who you are based upon how you dress?... ...gosh, i dont know about that - seems too complicated, too philosophical, too easy of an excuse for being shallow - but - then again, i am an old woman named after my mother, my old man's another child thats grown old... (thx john prine, you precious thang)...

reply to post by AceWombat04


Ducks.
Ducks and other animals will attack one of their own kind that appears
to be different or lame and attempt to drive it off because the different or lame animal WILL ATTRACT PREDATORS.

And thats what happened to you.
People are very frightened as you have discovered.
The Ego is nothing but Fear and as soon as you scratch away
the thin veneer of security that is what you find.

I do realize that your clothes story is but a part of your thread ~ it reminds me of when a neighbor was expecting me over for some light chore. He actually remarked on my clothes-a shredded transvision vamp T and some pretty wrecked cut offs. I believe he wanted me to mess with his lawnmower settings. I asked what could it possibly matter, since we know each other and I am, after all, working on your lawnmower...? He said that someone might think you are a burglar when going between the yards....

Later on I reflected on his vantage point. It does matter in many circles. What harm could it do to wear something that doesn't make you stand out with your friends? A small concession. At home you can dress as you like.