For Those Who Don't Understand Secret Societies

I want this to be a thread where people talk about what bothers them particularly about secret societies.

I made this thread because I just had a profound thought. What if secret societies (higher up in ranks at least), introduce people to control and what most people would generally consider "evil" in order to initiate them into higher learning?

Morality, in the bigger scope of things, is only relevant to perspective. To truly understand what you learn, experience is necessary. So what if to initiate people who have learned this great truth about reality, they have to show that they've actually learned it by perpetuating this practice? Thus, those who have abandoned their old, antiquated and unclear notion of morality will be able to learn more esoteric teachings and gain access to the pinnacle of humanity's achievements/higher learning?

Don't flame, just a thought, but what bothers you about secret societies?

reply to post by prepared4truth


Exspensive yearly dues, Long boring meetings, Bunch of old dudes who wont leave a seat til they die, and the weak younger dudes who are scared to vote them out. Racism that still exist with in the orginazation, Seperation in the orginazation, Too many affiliations...Not universal like it should be.... Sorry but I am specificly talking about freemasonry... Its not quite a secret society, but a society with secrets.

These things are what bother me....

My father and grandfather are masons. The former wants to have sex with me, and laughs agreeingly to Al Pacino's rendition of Lucifer suggesting he be called "dad." The latter mentions Illuminati and Skull and Bones OUT OF NOWHERE, and tells me to invest in gold. Tells me one moment he'll send me a report of when to invest, and then two weeks later I call him about it, and he stumbles over the phone, mumbling Uh I don't have whatever you're talking about, uhh, you need to be careful about what you say over the...

It's like they want to warn people of whatever only for the ego trip, so they seem important to those actually interested in, idk, ATS topics, as we're trying to figure out what's going on, but then they get to hide back in the shadows and say, I don't know what you're talking about, because they're obligated to keep secret. Not to mention well protected. Brotherhood/fraternity, not to mention connections within the judicial system. Police.

The whole Hope, Faith, Charity thing is a cover. IMHO

BTW, I'm male. And, no, a Bohemian Grove orgy sounds like an awful idea. Despicable, really.

I hate how they inbreed to keep knowledge, wealth and genes in the same families. That they worship Lucifer and other Satanic gods. That they have so many symbols and weird coincidences all over the place and people still doubt they exist or have any influence. Also that they are very psychotic and seem to always get in positions of power with ease. Not to mention how much I hate how they have all these dirty secrets and I can't really prove any of them as fact.

But at least they influenced this great song

The "secret" societies are too complex to be seen by the average person, even when they're staring straight at it, so their default emotion is fear.

But here's the kicker: our entire society is a secret waiting to be found; fear leads to love, and love points upward/outward (or inward, depending on what journey you're on.)

Welcome to Earth: Planet Training Wheels

reply to post by prepared4truth


"evil" won't be undone by getting rid of every secret society, nor would it be undone by limiting the meeting of any two Humans. "Evil" is an inherent leaning of the soul.

Whether or not the "elite" meet in a secret room doing dark magic or sacrificing virgins is of little consequence to me. If they don't meet in a secret ritual, they meet at the country clubs, or the private dinners, or board rooms, or right in front of the cameras.. the elite will always gravitate toward one another for personal gains which is usually at the expense of .. us .. the regulars. Their affiliations mean nothing, what they call themselves, what they claim to be or not to be.. because regardless, in some form of another, they will always exist, always.. and their intentions, while not always "evil" will always have the same outcome, purposeful or accidental, which leads to the sufferings of those below them. It's Human nature.. it's how we were made..

"Evil" is an inherent leaning of the soul.

So the quality of being "evil" is inherent via nature rather than by some discrepancy via nurture?

I believe the universe is made of love, (/light, if you're into mysticism) so the orientation for some who find love through service-to-self, the metaphysical route most associated with the evil tendencies, is inherently misguided because they still depend on others to progress on their route to dominate others and extend their reach to gain as much power as they can. All paths return to the source, and the source is Love; unconditional and benevolent to all. Indiscriminatory.

I just believe those who are along this path, with a lot of them being swayed by the lure of secret societies, justify the nature of their soul as being self-serving because the way they were brought up/ the experiences they had growing up developed their brain in such a manner where the concept of love is something that can be attained through power and recognition rather than through selfless acts of charity, without desire of compensation, and gratitude for what you have, even if you think you have nothing.

I perceive SS members as being very materialistic. Though, if you asked one of them, they'll just say they're being realistic.

This has been an interesting look into differing human perspectives for me so far, but I want to add something that you might think on...

Why do you consider the consolidation of power "evil"? I know this seems like "common sense" but the term "common sense" is actually a huge illusion. What determines "evil"? Does your religion tell you that Lucifer is evil? Or have you actually had an experience/researched Lucifer? Why does it bother you that you can't prove their secrecy? If I can't prove that you beat your child in secret, yet I have strong suspicion and I use circumstantial evidence, should it bother me that I can't prove your "evilness"?

Basically, I want to take this a step further from SS bothering you all to why your perspectives of them are leaning toward "good and evil". All in all, these have been very good answers spanning from people in SS to people related to people completely outside.

As xiphias pointed out in an earlier thread, my personal philosophy is "nevermind". Very easy for me, yet very difficult for some others.

Originally posted by prepared4truth
I want this to be a thread where people talk about what bothers them particularly about secret societies.

I made this thread because I just had a profound thought. What if secret societies (higher up in ranks at least), introduce people to control and what most people would generally consider "evil" in order to initiate them into higher learning?

Morality, in the bigger scope of things, is only relevant to perspective. To truly understand what you learn, experience is necessary. So what if to initiate people who have learned this great truth about reality, they have to show that they've actually learned it by perpetuating this practice? Thus, those who have abandoned their old, antiquated and unclear notion of morality will be able to learn more esoteric teachings and gain access to the pinnacle of humanity's achievements/higher learning?

Don't flame, just a thought, but what bothers you about secret societies?

Thats the problem right there.

Those 'higher ups' the illuminati, do believe that morality is relative.

But that isnt true, nor is it socially responsible. People like that dont seem to give a damn about other people, and no matter how you slice it, that is not right.

We have a moral obligation to each other. Judaism teaches this, as do many other religions. However, there are some schools, particularly gnostic in nature which believes this world and how we conduct ourselves here should be based on the reality in the higher worlds. Just as right and left, good and evil merge at the level of metatron, as its called in kabbalah, which is what mystics of all traditions imagine to be their free ricket to do as they please because theyve transcended the dualism of lower existence.

In the end. How is that right? If people are being killed, exploited, etc etc (the crimes of the aristocratic class are just too many to count) how can you turn a blind eye to that? Its simply monstrous and satanic in every sense of the word.

And if the above is how the aristocratic class conducts themselves (and it most certainly is how they conduct themselves) than something inside me, my conscience(which speaks very loudly) tells me to trust in G-d, that in the end, justice and truth will prevail. Unlike what the Greek thinks, truth does not come from falsehood. Only more falsehood and eventually extinction of the source which generates the falsehood.

The Prophets speak very clearly of these western elites. Psalm 149, which i read every night speaks of their destined plight (The final psalms refer to the messianic era)

To bind their kings with chains,
And their nobles with fetters of iron;
To execute on them the written judgment—
This for the honor of all His pious ones

And than psalm 150 speaks of G-ds glory in the messianic era.

reply to post by dontreally

Thats the problem right there. Those 'higher ups' the illuminati, do believe that morality is relative. But that isnt true, nor is it socially responsible. People like that dont seem to give a damn about other people, and no matter how you slice it, that is not right.

Okay, so what makes you "right" or "correct"? Your religious beliefs and text based on paganism and masked as a legit school for centuries by the people you claim to be "wrong"? JudeoChristian beliefs were indeed formed by these 'higher ups'. Technically, I could slice it many different ways and quite a few those ways would involve it looking as "right as pie". It depends on perspective. For us, who mainly look to the future with very short-term vision, it is wrong to murder generations and conquer nations with lies. For them, it is right to conquer nations with lies in order to proceed with an agenda which will eventually push humanity towards Truth and evolution.

But I digress. What makes you more right than say, a Mormon who believes in polygamy?

Well if all these people in power belong to these SS then from there actions alone you can see the evil. They are selfish, decadent, immoral, untrustworthy, deceiving, arrogant and insidiously sinister. Hope that was enough words to describe what determines evil for me lol. Lucifer and Satan are basically the same thing to me and I learned of him and his influence of people in the bible when I was young. It did tell me of his evil temptations he uses for the corrupt power system. I did find out more about Lucifer when I did more research about how the lightning bolt symbolizes him falling through the sky and he is called the bringer of light because of his intellectualism. Instead of using his intellect for God he uses it to become God. It bothers me that I can't prove their secrecy because this is what allows them to get away with things that most people can't. What good is it to know If you can't do anything about it? Ill use an example like that movie From Hell where Johnny Depps character knew The Ripper was the killer but could not do anything about it because the police chief was part of the SS.

After reading what I just wrote it actually reaffirms my belief that the SS are worshipers of Lucifer. They share the same quality of using their minds to corrupt and make people slaves and to make themselves Gods eventually. Instead of using their minds for a good purpose they use it for their own selfish gains, but that's probably why they are all secret.

Okay, so what makes you "right" or "correct"? Your religious beliefs and text based on paganism and masked as a legit school for centuries by the people you claim to be "wrong"? JudeoChristian beliefs were indeed formed by these 'higher ups'. Technically, I could slice it many different ways and quite a few those ways would involve it looking as "right as pie". It depends on perspective. For us, who mainly look to the future with very short-term vision, it is wrong to murder generations and conquer nations with lies. For them, it is right to conquer nations with lies in order to proceed with an agenda which will eventually push humanity towards Truth and evolution.

But I digress. What makes you more right than say, a Mormon who believes in polygamy?

Firstly, you must not know much about the Torah (the books of the prophets and writings, are merely supplementary to the Torah) if you consider it based on paganism. There is a very sharp and stark difference between Pagan and Jewish thought. Very apposite that the idea of a demarcation between Jews and the nations is made throughout the Torah, most pithily by Bilaam when he said "Israel is a nation that dwells apart". In its deepest, most mystical sense, hee saying that their philosophy is above that of the nations. While the nations focus on union with Metatron, or Adam Kadmon, the universal man or self, Judaism goes a step beyond that. The connection being made is that between the divine presence, as most refined and etheric in Adam Kadmon, united with the ineffable source of all reality, the creator. The Torah is crammed packed with a legalistic message. Im always confused at to how gnostics can interpet the language of torah as anything other than legalistic. Is G-ds constant mentioning of mishpatim, Hoqim, Edim, Mitzvot (many different words for a law) not a reference to physical laws? Seriously. Read the Torah more clearly and many times, as i have done in my life and you will see that its all about a law. Of course, it is much deeper than that, and thats what Kabbalah is for. But on teh simple level, G-d is transmitting a code by which man can materialize g-ds direct will in this world by following laws. In the spiritual process, will is the highest conceievable faculty. Nothing lies beyond will (except pleasure) therefore, G-d giving his will to man, in this lowest of worlds, the physical, enables the highest to manifest in the lowest. Simply look at man in micrcocosm and you can see that before we act we have a simple will. This will becomes conceptualized, created in thought, formed by emotion and eventually put into action. But in the end, the will was towards action. The action alludes to the will. G-d gave man specific actions and its our job to perform them. This reveals the point of essence, the will of the creator in this lowest world. For gentiles, this is the 7 noahide laws spoken of in the Talmud. Jews have 613 of them.

Now, im not going to argue whether right or wrong exists. It does.

I think its deeper than the golden rule. Cause with some people, particularly gnostics, the golden rule takes on some abstruse and complicated proportions. What does "dont do to others what is hateful to you" mean to someone who embraces suffering, evil and chaos in his own being? To such a person, there is no such thing as hateful. Whats hateful to such a person is only boundaries, laws and restrictions. The only power he identifies with is liber, that is, liberalism and the will to do as i want.

These people dont care about the spiritual level of others. In Judaism, Kabbalah adn Chassidut, the state of every being is unique. No two people are alike. just as faces are different, so to our peoples beliefs. Thats fine. But everyone should make it there reponsibility to respond, and be aware of everyone they relate with. For instance, there are two people. One is weak minded the other is strong. The former would be hurt by a tactless statement and the other unperturbed. Should i just say it because its good for people to have 'tough skin' or is that just a cop out - an arrogant self absorbed cop out that simply rationalizes that because it wants to do what gives it pleasure. In Jewish psychology, we would show a sensitivity to every person. If that person has problems, and im aware of them, im going to bend my will to connect with them. This involves Hod - acknowledgement, of another persons reality. This is the deepest point of contact with another soul that anyone could manifest within themselves. I think its a beautful idea. It takes everyone into account. It shows a love a sensitivity to everyones state of being. I know many buddhists who aswell live by this, knowing it to be such a maginificent depiction of ones own selflessness, that my own ego wont interefere with a truth i understand.

People who dont acknowledge good or evil, are simply put ego maniacs. They are so blinded by their own ego fueled by a deluded philosophy which perpeuates an even more demented psychology (like jungian). Such people are painful for other weaker people to experience. they govern themselves just like animals, and despite their natural ability to know better, they bend their will to the dark power within them, imagining that as a way to enlightenment. Its insanity. Its megalomania. Its human being playing G-d.

So, no. I know that the catholic chruch and aristocrats of europe have a 'death is a great cure' the end justifies the means philosophy. But what does that mean to all os us? nothing. Were fodder for their dreams of manifest destiny.

Excuse my french, but # them.

Originally posted by prepared4truth
What determines "evil"? Does your religion tell you that Lucifer is evil? Or have you actually had an experience/researched Lucifer? Why does it bother you that you can't prove their secrecy? If I can't prove that you beat your child in secret, yet I have strong suspicion and I use circumstantial evidence, should it bother me that I can't prove your "evilness"?

It is important to remember that the majority* of secret society members are not Christian, and therefore also do not believe in satan. Even "good" and "evil" are concepts which are understood differently by non-Christians, and therefore by most secret society members.

*Note: My use of the word "majority" above is based purely on my own experience, and not on any factual source.

Originally posted by prepared4truth
Okay, so what makes you "right" or "correct"?

Hindu, Wicca, and many other religions teach that something is morally acceptable as long as nobody gets hurt in any way (including, spiritually, emotionally etc.) If someone is hurt through lack of action, such inaction would also be considered immoral (for example, not helping someone in distress.)

Apart from a moral dilemma, where two opposing actions will hurt either one person or another, I think you would be hard pressed to find an example of immoral behavior which would not be classified as immoral by the definition above.

I guess a good definition of evil is something which hurts others unnecessarily.

I made this thread because I just had a profound thought. What if secret societies (higher up in ranks at least), introduce people to control and what most people would generally consider "evil" in order to initiate them into higher learning?

Alternatively, what if secret societies initiate people into 'higher learning' to help them free themselves FROM evil.

I think most of us would agree that whether it's a curse or blessing we have been endowed with Free Will. Even if morality is relative and arbitrary from one person to another there IS an absolute in life.

All of our intentional actions result in either service-to-self or service-to-others.

I can't speak for other Secret Societies, but for Freemasonry (even looking in from the outside) the preponderence of evidence suggests it promotes action that results in service-to-others.

As for 'higher learning' there is nothing contained in any mystery school, fraternity, or secret society whatever that cannot be learned or accessed by every person on the planet.

So, when evaluating a secret society it would seem the wisest thing to ask yourself is: Does this group exist to serve itself, or does it exist to serve others?

BTW my Masonic dues are $50 per year. If the amount ever causes a financial burden the lodge will remit the dues. It would be abhorrent to refuse membership or kick someone out who truly had a financial need.

reply to post by prepared4truth


Top Ten Reason Secret Societies bother me:
10)Always choose the WORST places for conferences
9) Secret Society groupies are usually in the late 40s and older
8) Awful finger food at meetings
7) Dues are increasingly at a astonishing rate
6) Hooded robe messes up my hair
5) Christmas party location is always kept a secret, which leads to poor attendance
4) Not enough members to have a good final four pool
3) Once your in, very tough to kick a loser out
2) Learning the secret handshake
1)Location, Location, Location

reply to post by emsed1


agreed

reply to post by 4KAAN


Maybe ur g-pops didn't want to speak over the phone about the gold. i dunno. Maybe he thought u'd mention the other things u were discussing.

If I'm getting this straight, the OP is trying to say that evil has to exist in the presence of good in order for good to be expressed; that's fairly inaccurate. We live in a land of relativity, not a trial ground to make certain people be evil for the sake of making others good. Essentially, there a bad things that happen all the time. But basically, no life can really be destroyed. You can lose your current form, that's about it.

We are here for experience, not to practice what is bad to get to good. You do not have to go through hell to get to heaven. The reason for this is simple; all is one. Basically, we are here to experience what we already know. You do a good deed, someone is happy, and in turn that adds up to something good when your physical body dies. Basically there are different paradigms you can use to service to others and service to self. You don't have to give a lot to other people. In fact, you can be rather selfish as long as you do not actively try to undo the work of others.

Basically, the Law of Attraction states that you get what you put out. If you are thankful for something, you know that you are already have it. Be thankful for what you don't have but you want, and you will eventually get it. None of this means that evil has to exist for good to actually experience itself. look at it this way; there are millions of different things classified as 'good'. But you ultimately choose what is truly good in your minds. So really the paradigm en grande boils down to this:

Good, Bad, Evil. Evil is simply anything that derails life but bad and good are both judgment calls. That's the best I can do with this topic.

What bothers me is groups claiming to offer freedom but only if your in their ranks and paid for their services are you truly a "free man." The journey to true freedom is a personal one and comes with no cost. No god, no christ... no adversary to those listed above. Freedom is something gained through the trials and tribulations of life and are of the human spirit not of any external force.

Any group that plots against any country and claims a secret stake in said country.