Famed NASA Astronaut almost, kind of, (not really) says Extraterrestrials are here!

reply to post by JimOberg


What about the photos firemoon posted. What are these objects we are seeing?

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by JimOberg

 

What about the photos firemoon posted. What are these objects we are seeing?

I hadn't thought they were connected with STS-80 -- post the link and I'll back and look them over.

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Thanx for that.... Now i think it would be really interesting to know, in your opinion, what the object in the STS88 photos is ?

These ones

reply to post by Jay-morris


Far more interesting than all this space debris is the extraordinary phenomenon featured in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's even baffled MBMBN and it would be good to have Jim Oberg's views.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Not true at all. Here's a summary of the points/counterpoints:

Space debris -- There are plenty of pieces of space debris whose orbits pass in whole or in part below the space shuttle, as the heavens-above link easily demonstrates. But in this case as in so many other space videos, the dots aren't even proposed as this kind of debris from OTHER satellites, they are proposed to be stuff coming off the shuttle itself -- which happens often, no dispute that it does.

Space debris coming through the clouds though? The object was seen coming through the clouds.
This explanation might just be comlete bunk (see below).

JimOberb
Space ice 'observed to be coming through the clouds' -- not so, some pieces were observed to appear against the cloud background and that theory states that this was because self-luminous objects were masked by clouds until they got high enough. The counter-theory is that the dots are sunlit small objects floating near the shuttle and some of them appear when they drift out of the shuttle's shadow. The geometry of this orientation and shadow zone and the rationale for pointing cameras in that direction have been explained as routine spaceflight procedures. The timing of this video is precisely in a small interval of sun illumination that makes such tiny nearby objects visible. Any random patterns those objects drift into or out of are as significant as the random patterns of stars, called 'constellations'.

"The disc was first observed to miraculously appear from out of nowhere, flying through the clouds below and progressing from right to left as the astronauts stared in utter amazement"
This statement is straight forward and to the point which possibly crushes your speculations here (see below).

JimOberg
Space ice -- "Even though it ...was 50-150 in diameter, shaped like a disc," is a description attributed by author Clark McClelland to Story Musgrave, one of the crewmembers. This attribution is suggested to be bogus since, a) Musgrave has endorsed the small nearby particle theory, along with another STS-80 astronaut, and b) Musgrave has explicitly denied seeing any evidence of alien visits during any of his space flights, and c) McClelland has a track record of bizarre claims including that Musgrave also encountered a nine-foot-tall space alien on another of his shuttle missions. Other claims of 'secret conversations; by McClelland appear to be cases where he lifted quotes out of UFO books and described them as personal conversations he had with experts, now conveniently dead and unable to confirm them.

Wait a second here, let us see your proof that Musgrave did not say this:"A large disc shaped object appeared below the Columbia. The shuttle was approximately, 190 Nautical miles high.

The disc was first observed to miraculously appear from out of nowhere, flying through the clouds below and progressing from right to left as the astronauts stared in utter amazement. The outer rim of the craft appeared to be rotating counter-clockwise. It was very large (compared to common space junk and breakaway ice), approximately 50 to 150 feet in diameter."
If you can prove that he did not say this and that it is indeed McClelland's embellishment then you might just be able to debunk the whole topic.
But I've seen no evidence yet to support that this was a bogus concoction of McClelland's. You wouldn't be adding a little embellishment of your own at this point possibly?
Your paragraph above is pretty specific about denying McClelland's claim that Musgrave said the above.

Let's see you back it up now. Because if you can't, your really only doing a fancy dancy lip service that tries to obscure Musgrave's words and borders on outright deception or misrepresentation of the facts in the least.

Crazy?No not more crazy than our existence is for other extra terrestrials. We humans are one extra terrestrial race among mere,and the fact that extra terrestrials has been on this planet before and do exist is a major political subject nowadays. I work with this subject myself, i have seen what i have seen, but i did not know they were here as in the form of established a base or similar. I among other scientists do NOT have the option to be informed at the highest ranked levels. Buzz and his shuttle friends DO know alot about this subject and has signed under a classification document just like other normal jobs on this planet. So they usually do not have the right to inform us about anything,but these are different times. And here we got one of the "shuttle" men themselves informing about extra terrestrials.

Good job. It is a posetive choice.

Crazy?No not more crazy than our existence is for other extra terrestrials. We humans are one extra terrestrial race among mere,and the fact that extra terrestrials has been on this planet before and do exist is a major political issue nowadays. I work with this subject myself, i have seen what i have seen, but i did not know they were here as in the form of established a base or similar. I among other scientists do NOT have the option to be informed at the highest ranked levels. Buzz and his shuttle friends DO know alot about this subject and has signed under a classification document just like other normal jobs on this planet. So they usually do not have the right to inform us about anything,but these are different times. And here we got one of the "shuttle" men themselves informing about extra terrestrials.

Good job. It is a posetive choice.

reply to post by amazing


Your two options are very much correct.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by warequalsmurder

Originally posted by JimOberg
Not true at all. Here's a summary of the points/counterpoints:

Space debris -- There are plenty of pieces of space debris whose orbits pass in whole or in part below the space shuttle, as the heavens-above link easily demonstrates. But in this case as in so many other space videos, the dots aren't even proposed as this kind of debris from OTHER satellites, they are proposed to be stuff coming off the shuttle itself -- which happens often, no dispute that it does.

Space debris coming through the clouds though? The object was seen coming through the clouds.
This explanation might just be comlete bunk (see below).

JimOberb
Space ice 'observed to be coming through the clouds' -- not so, some pieces were observed to appear against the cloud background and that theory states that this was because self-luminous objects were masked by clouds until they got high enough. The counter-theory is that the dots are sunlit small objects floating near the shuttle and some of them appear when they drift out of the shuttle's shadow. The geometry of this orientation and shadow zone and the rationale for pointing cameras in that direction have been explained as routine spaceflight procedures. The timing of this video is precisely in a small interval of sun illumination that makes such tiny nearby objects visible. Any random patterns those objects drift into or out of are as significant as the random patterns of stars, called 'constellations'.

"The disc was first observed to miraculously appear from out of nowhere, flying through the clouds below and progressing from right to left as the astronauts stared in utter amazement"
This statement is straight forward and to the point which possibly crushes your speculations here (see below).

JimOberg
Space ice -- "Even though it ...was 50-150 in diameter, shaped like a disc," is a description attributed by author Clark McClelland to Story Musgrave, one of the crewmembers. This attribution is suggested to be bogus since, a) Musgrave has endorsed the small nearby particle theory, along with another STS-80 astronaut, and b) Musgrave has explicitly denied seeing any evidence of alien visits during any of his space flights, and c) McClelland has a track record of bizarre claims including that Musgrave also encountered a nine-foot-tall space alien on another of his shuttle missions. Other claims of 'secret conversations; by McClelland appear to be cases where he lifted quotes out of UFO books and described them as personal conversations he had with experts, now conveniently dead and unable to confirm them.

Wait a second here, let us see your proof that Musgrave did not say this:"A large disc shaped object appeared below the Columbia. The shuttle was approximately, 190 Nautical miles high.

Your whole universe is upside down. McClelland offered no proof that Musgrave said this, and he's the one making the extraordinary claim. On the other hand, I offered two messages from two crewmembers that refuted McClelland's scenario in its entirety, and a second message from Musgrave restating that he had never personally observed what looked like ETI activity. Corroborative evidence that McClealland's assertion alone is inadequate grounds for belief is composed of other assertions of McClelland's that are patently preposterous, such as that HE observed a TV monitor view of a nine-foot alien in the shuttle payload bay and MUSGRAVE was one of the astronauts meeting with it.

The disc was first observed to miraculously appear from out of nowhere, flying through the clouds below and progressing from right to left as the astronauts stared in utter amazement. The outer rim of the craft appeared to be rotating counter-clockwise. It was very large (compared to common space junk and breakaway ice), approximately 50 to 150 feet in diameter."
If you can prove that he did not say this and that it is indeed McClelland's embellishment then you might just be able to debunk the whole topic.

Compared to the pathetic 'proof' that he DID say it, I'd say my evidence that it never happened -- like, direct messages from two witnesses, that you can VERIFY, is pretty dominant.

But I've seen no evidence yet to support that this was a bogus concoction of McClelland's. You wouldn't be adding a little embellishment of your own at this point possibly?
Your paragraph above is pretty specific about denying McClelland's claim that Musgrave said the above.

Let's see you back it up now. Because if you can't, your really only doing a fancy dancy lip service that tries to obscure Musgrave's words and borders on outright deception or misrepresentation of the facts in the least.

Originally posted by Lowneck
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Far more interesting than all this space debris is the extraordinary phenomenon featured in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's even baffled MBMBN and it would be good to have Jim Oberg's views.

I don't have any. You're on your own! ;-)

Originally posted by Jay-morris
These ones

Some blog in Bulgaria? My server couldn't even find it. Sorry.

Most of the links were subscription-only, too.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Lowneck
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Far more interesting than all this space debris is the extraordinary phenomenon featured in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's even baffled MBMBN and it would be good to have Jim Oberg's views.

I don't have any. You're on your own! ;-)

Well, im no expert, but maybe space junk? But i thought that type of junk would be quite dangerous, but then again, not if its in orbit. Its a weird shape though.

Please in my life time i want too see proof. PLEASE

Originally posted by JimOberg
Just got this note with permission to share:

From: Story Musgrave
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: New crazy claims about your STS-80 'UFO encounter' and meeting a giant space alien in the PLB


Can't get involved, but you can pass it on, There is life every where out there, on trillions of planets, some of it doing interstellar travel, but I have no evidence that we have been visited here.

story

Originally posted by JimOberg

Musgrave's belief in an active galactic interstellar alien traffic flow is far-out, for sure, but I figured it would interest ATSers. He's not even saying they haven't visited Earth, he's merely repeating that HE has never seen any evidence of it.

Thanks for sharing this Jim.
But I’m wondering, is what Story did write there not a matter of that he knows that for shore and that he therefore said it the way he did?

Then another thing, he did not say that HE has never seen any evidence of it; he said that HE has no evidence that we have been visited here.
So that doesn’t mean in my opinion that he is not aware of does not know of existing evidence for that.

The same counts for what he said here.

Originally posted by spacevisitor

jublywubly — 30 juni 2009 — This video has some interesting information about Russian Cosmonaut UFO sightings & N.A.S.A. Astronaut, Dr Story Musgrave, discussing his own encounters in space.

Also interesting is what Story Musgrave said in this video from 3:00

The more you fly in space the more you see an incredible amount of things out there and it back sort of brings to you really a certainty that there are other living creatures are out there.

Some incredible more primitive then us, some just proteins coming together amino acids and some just single cell organisms, and other civilizations that bin around for million years did or doing unimaginable kind of things.

Just as the way he said that, it again gives me the very strong impression that it is for him not a matter of guessing or assuming, but a matter of knowing.

But I could be wrong of course.

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Just as the way he said that, it again gives me the very strong impression that it is for him not a matter of guessing or assuming, but a matter of knowing. But I could be wrong of course.

He does speak that way. Go look up his book, 'The Way of Water'.

Sometimes you gotta look at the trees (eg STS-80, here), and sometimes you get to gaze at the forest (the whole fireworks out there). Both viewpoints are needed, not one or the other -- both.

What the space UFO stories (each 'tree') teach us about the 'forest view', and what rocket/space events and the UFO reports they spark can teach us, is more about the stimulus/witness/rememberer process within our heads. The lessons may not be comforting to the forest-view-only people, but by accurately assessing a large number of trees, I would argue we come to understand the forest better. And we improve the quality of that view thereby.

Just my 2 kopecks.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Just got this note with permission to share:

From: Story Musgrave
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: RE: New crazy claims about your STS-80 'UFO encounter' and meeting a giant space alien in the PLB


Can't get involved, but you can pass it on, There is life every where out there, on trillions of planets, some of it doing interstellar travel, but I have no evidence that we have been visited here.

story

What the hell is the point in him even replying to emails? He never actually says anything!

You might as well have emailed me, I would have given you the same answer but at least I would have been more polite, thanked you for your message and wished you "all the best"

reply to post by JimOberg


Next time you speak to Mr. Musgrave please ask him about this please.

Dr. Musgrave stated he attempted to communicate with ET life forms during each of his six missions. He actually asked them to take him with them.

I would be interested in his response. Why try to contact something that has never visited our planet? How would he know which way and how to make contact?

reply to post by triplesod


Here is something I find interesting and that is the fact he says this.

There is life every where out there, on trillions of planets, some of it doing interstellar travel, but I have no evidence that we have been visited here.

Yet we have this.

Dr. Musgrave stated he attempted to communicate with ET life forms during each of his six missions. He actually asked them to take him with them.

Why try to contact something that has never visited our planet. Kind of an interesting set of comments if you ask me.

Originally posted by JimOberg


Regarding the credibility of McClelland's account, here's one of his stories where there's a strong case that he read some quotes attributed to Wernher von Braun in a book, and then later falsely presented them as a direct quote from von Braun to him in private -- and the evidence for that is the original quote was so garbled it was bogus, as checking with the alleged original source of THAT quote demonstrated. There is no other credible source for the garbled book quotation -- none, except the book itself.

Do you have concrete evidence to backup this claim or is this your opinion about Mr. McClelland and his credibility. Would love to see the concrete evidence so feel free to post it.