Are We Dead Yet?

Hi folks,

This topic is one that I've wanted to discuss for a long time and for some reason always forget to until something happens to make the behavior overtly noticeable ... as such is the case again these last couple of days, I thought it as good a time as any to thread it.

The question I'm putting forth is truly based on a general confusion and bemusement on my part, as such, I am seeking your input and observations. It is noted that I am perpetually and generally in a state of relative confusion thus this condition is nothing new ... still, I will put forth the question and see if relative relief is forthcoming.

Keeping in mind the general psychological penchants of us ATS members, does it not strike anyone else as odd that there is seemingly a significant amount of folks who embrace, even desire, catastrophes of gigantic proportions?

It seems, especially on ATS and related sites, that for many big kabooms cannot come soon enough.

Be they biblical, volcanoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, comets/asteroids, pandemics, economic collapse, viruses, alien attack, wars, 2012, just to name a few.

Doomsday psychology of course is nothing new, a lot of it often seemingly based on a person's general unhappiness with one's current state and seeking relief via some sort of transformational event that would presumably provide them with some yet to be identified remedy to a personal problem they are not willing to face. There's a lot of "if my life sucks, let the end come and take not only me but all the other mean people as well" going on. The "see I told you guys this would happen" thing is also there. Still, as valid as those shrink based explanations may be for some they do not seem to account for the totality of this behavior.

If you have been on ATS for a little while you will notice that some of our longest and most participated in threads are based on this premise. Not only that, but every time another such potential catastrophe has a chance to manifest many run around like giddy schoolgirls who just discovered that Justin Timberlake might crash our prom. (is he still famous?)

I dunno ... all kidding aside, whenever I observe this behavior I simply can neither understand or relate to it.

It's as if those who feel that way do not process, other than as a faraway abstraction, the fact that should any of these things ever happen, the degree of pain, suffering, and misery they would be to those who are caught up in it.

I'm trying not to be judgmental of it, but the behavior does seem to have a rather heavy degree of cruelty and apathy towards one's follow man built into it. It seems, at least on the surface, to be rather self-centered and dark.

Anyhoot, I hope no one who stares at Richter scales and NEOs all day long in grand anticipation gets mad at me for asking ... I'm just trying to understand the root cause of this behavior.

Cheers!

I agree. There was once a poster on here who said he/she was basically going crazy (paraphrasing) because of all the info about doomsday.

I said, "Just live your life."

That was all I could really say because the amount of dying off info here is overwhelming. So, I just live and let live.

I hope none of these things actually happen and I am somewhat prepared for a small happening, but I cannot live my life based upon the end of the world.

reply to post by schrodingers dog




I don't want to go on the cart! I feel happy, I feel happy!

I can completely understand your point of view on this issue, I think that a lot of people WANT the end of the world to come about.

Think about the end timers, people who think that Armageddon is just around the corner on any given day. Makes me sad to see. I don't think the world is going to end any time soon. (probably because I haven't hit the lotto yet.)

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Hey Sdog!

I've thought about this phenomenon long and hard as well and have come up with my own theory as to why there are a lot of people who embrace the apocalyptic rantings of so many, and why predicting doom and gloom is such big business and I've come to a couple of conclusions regarding this...

First there is laziness. The idea that we, as a species, have screwed things up so royally that fixing it would take a great deal of work. So much work, in fact, that simply wiping the slate clean would be preferable to actually having to power down the computer and actually go out and make a difference!

Secondly, and closely related to the first point, is apathy. Meh, yeah, the world is jacked-up, but it's gonna end anyway, so why should I care? God will come along and set it all right and proper soon enough. So just let it be and I'll catch up on this season of Survivor via Hulu...

And, lastly, there is the wonderful and weight removing lack of personal responsibility that comes with an acceptance of the apocalyptic! Hey, it's not my fault that we're in the end times! And nothing I do could possibly compare with the horrors of the coming Antichrist/meteor/disaster!

Why better myself when the world is on its last leg? Huh? Why work at a career, putting in the hard labor and paying my dues when it's all getting flushed away soon anyhow? Why save for retirement when it's already game over? Why get an education that I won't need because I'll be dead or in paradise???

In short, Sdog, my friend, embracing the apocalypse is by far and away more easy an answer than embracing life.

~Heff

Oh, and just for clarity... I embrace life and not doom and gloom, though doom and gloom does make for some wonderful entertainment!

Good and accurate points made SD.
Could the desire for the big kabooms, the end times prophecy, be finding its origins in the security provided by its/their arrival?
Living under the question mark, especially an extended and pressurized question mark may just be too much sustained stress for some to bear.
IF the big kaboom were to come, maybe it would relieve some of that stress, a finally gasp thank goodness !
The uncertainty is washed away by the surety of the prophectic, chaos is replaced by "see, see I told you it was going to happen".
I guess in a weird way it's some abstract display of hope.
Although preparation for the unknown is always a good thing, taking it to the new nikes and sleeping juice level is the extreme to avoid, for sure.
Alot of good days are traded away for that anticipation of doom and gloom.
Yet when a televised diet of dark and nasty is ready for consumption at any moment, it's easy to see how easy it is, to get stuck in the cycle of a perpetual mental darkness.

I read a book about this, it was quite interesting.

The book was about how when we feel something bad is going to happen, if we have beforehand knowledge about it, it makes the shock of it much less. But, if we are sitting in wait, and have no idea what is coming it does much more psychological damage to us.

It was an experiment where they took two groups of twenty people, one group would receive 20 shocks of electricity that were quite substantial. The other group was to receive 20 as well, but, 17 would be a small shock and a random 3 would be bigger ones.

After the test the people that received the 20 bigger shocks said that they actually did not hurt, but the other group with the 3 big ones went on to describe how horrible all 20 shocks were and could not tell the big ones from the little ones.

That is what I attribute this whole world is coming to an end mantra from. I think people would rather think the worst and be pleasantly surprised is something good happens. That way if bad comes along at least they are prepared.

I hope I made sense.

Pred...

We are death, in term of humanity, this is no way with can get another case because of the level of degeneration. We are death in the term that we can reach the superior plane anymore. Most of the people in our civilization have no souls. Degeneration is in all the corner of our poor, and sad civilization, soon to end.(not 2012)

You made a lot of really good points here.

I'd have to admit that I seem to be looking for some kind of catastrophe to happen. That topic interests me greatly!

What I find interesting about your post is that I never even considered that I might be searching for an end to my own personal dissatisfaction with the world thereby warping my own world view in a way that makes me expect and prepare for the end.

I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but I certainly never even thought about it, so thanks for the food for thought

S&F

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I blame the recent uprising in this way of thinking on the media outlets.
Think about it.
If people never knew about all the prophecies that have flourished lately...they wouldn't freak out.
Oh, You didn't hear about 2012 Mayan Calendar?
Then that date would be just another day to you, not the end of the world.
Never read the bible?
Then those verses are meaningless...

It's almost like people just want an event to happen for the pleasure of seeing something come to fruition.

I don't know but I think it will get extremely worse in the next year or so...

In my humble opinion, of course.

The thing that intrigues me is that most people I see with this attitude seem to think they will be one of the survivors, fighting of hordes of Zombies / Military with one hand or somehow think that they no tricks to surviving disaster that others will not.
They rarely imagine the fear, starvation, disease and eventual death that is the likely result for most people in a doomsday event will happen to them.

There all Jack Bower in their own minds,

If a huge doomsday event does happen I fully expect to be dead in the gutter a few minutes later

I'm typically taken aback when I see this also, the BP oil crisis; a case in point. Sometimes reading between the lines, and other times not so easily concealed, it is noted that some hope for the worse. Hopes that this is the catastrophe that will bring us down, and the beginning of the end.

But why?

Perhaps when one has an internal environment --neurotic anxiety--of morbid and maglinant hopelessness and ruin, it somehow strives for an external congruency. An "April is the cruelest month", type thing. There is no reconciliation between the internal environment and the external one. There needs to be a correlation so the inner state is justified. Reconciling a discrepancy, so to speak.

Another thought....if one is in a constant state of anxiety over these things, almost to an obsessive degree, then it's akin to a criminal fugitive on the run......

Getting caught brings a kind of relief. It's over. You don't have to worry about it anymore.

An interesting point to be sure. My view on the whole "end of the world" idea is not based in fear or anxiety however, but in reason and logic. Ending, for lack of a better term, is a universal constant. People die, stars explode...even the universe itself will eventually cease to be. So, while I don't run around in a state of perpetual fear over the inevitable end of our civilization, I do not shy away from it either. To deny that such an end is coming (whether tomorrow or a billion years from now) shows more fear of that fact, in my opinion. I merely accept the fact that, one day, I will be gone. Everything will be gone, in fact, sooner or later. Ironically, this does not stop me from living my life. On the contrary, this helps me apreciate every day that I get to experience life. It helps me to ignore the things that I do not like, and suck every ounce of enjoyment out of the moments that give me pleasure.

Do I believe we are heading towards a time of change? Yes.
Do I believe that change on such a large scale will be violent? Yes.
Do I have proof? No.

Does this belief make me "crazy and paranoid"? No, it is simply a belief I hold. I'm no more insane than the average person who goes to church and prays to an invisible man in the sky, even though there is no hard evidence that such a man exists. The only reason my beliefs lead people to think me unstable is because they are not conventially held by other members of society. I'm thrown into the same catagorey as the David Ike's of the world, which is hardly fair, since fanatical Christians are just as unbalanced.

Believe what you will...all I have to say is that you consider the possibility that our way of life cannot endure forever. Rome wasn't built in a day, but neither did it stand for an eternity.


GtkP

Read something once , that addressed this but , can't for the life of me remember what it was .

What stuck with me though , is that the author equated this with how there are those who go to the races simply with the anticipation of seeing a 200 mph wreck .

I personally think it is something inherent in human nature , something primal . How many times have any of you came upon an accident on the highway , and not slowed down to gawk , like everyone else ? How many will try to get past the scene , while looking away from it ?

There is something deep within our 'self ' that is attracted to , and captivated by , tragedy , destruction , and death .

It is just manifested more-so in some , than others .

Just my opinion , hope I didn't offend anyone .

I like things the way they are. I hope the doom and gloom starts many years in the future, unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't want to have to deal with the grid going down. Or a big financial meltdown. Or full disclosure. Or a killer earthquake. The only real disaster that I've dealt with was the ice storm 12 years ago. I got caught flat footed on that one. Thanks to ATS, I'll be aware now.

The reason that the majority of people are so excited to hear about apocalyptic events unfoulding is because it proves that whatever religion they followed was right and actually exists. As much as people believe in religion (and i do aswell) it is these people that want some sort of sign to physically prove its existence. This is why there have been so many doomsday preachers throughout the times, they want cold hard evidence you can see and hold to prove that what they believe in is real.
Sadly, it is just a symptom of a society where people arent confident enough in spirituality that they need apocalyptic events to prove its existence.

For those who expect and in turn rejoice in the fruition of a disaster, it is a break from the mundane and 'ordinary' of everyday. This is why they react the way they do, seemingly euphoric.

reply to post by davespanners

The thing that intrigues me is that most people I see with this attitude seem to think they will be one of the survivors

Yes, this always amazes me too. Billions dead globally with a handfull of survivors, and they are one of the few.
How in the world they could reach that conclusion is baffling. What are the odds?

And you know, we must not overlook the simple motivation of hatred. There are people who hate themselves, the world, and everybody in it. They want the world to pay for their own misery and lack of success.

I wanted to note that the 'doomsday psychology' aspect is just one aspect of it, perhaps the most extreme ...

I guess my original question was framed for the grey area between nirvana and cataclysm, where some do not seem to wish for absolute annihilation but would welcome and embrace some grand event short of that. Be it earthquake, tsunami, volcano, NEO, and the like ... basically for something 'big' to happen.

Although I'm not a 'gamer' perhaps there's a desensitization element form games and movies, where the human suffering that would be associated with the event is somehow disconnected from the event itself. This is just a guess mind you, as you can tell the mind is 'reaching' for comprehension.

I don't know if I'm even communicating this well enough, to be honest I always found "why do some people do this or that" threads to be most often fallaciously premised, so I'm rather conflicted about having created one.

Still, the behavior persists amongst too significant a proportion of folks to be ignored.
I thank everyone for their contributions so far.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
I guess my original question was framed for the grey area between nirvana and cataclysm, where some do not seem to wish for absolute annihilation but would welcome and embrace some grand event short of that. Be it earthquake, tsunami, volcano, NEO, and the like ... basically for something 'big' to happen.

The fact is catastrophic things happen naturally, I for one do not wish for them, we live in a chaotic world and I believe they are random events. I don't live my life thinking about gloom and doom, what would be the point of that, it is not like I have control over it. Why anyone would need or want something horrible to happen to validate their mindset is beyond me.

I prefer to live the best life I can on a daily basis, remember all we have is the eternal now, can't be worrying about tomorrow.

Great thread, points and questions, thanks for posting it.

Originally posted by serbsta
For those who expect and in turn rejoice in the fruition of a disaster, it is a break from the mundane and 'ordinary' of everyday. This is why they react the way they do, seemingly euphoric.

And why is this a bad thing? Do not misunderstand...I'm not saying that I think about a possible cataclysmic ending with hope and joy. In fact, speaking for myself, the fact that I see such an event as possible makes me hope against it even more. But why should people not strive for a break from the mundane? Once life becomes "ordinary" or "routine", it's not a far leap from life becoming boring. And while the "apocalyspe" would not be pleasant, I doubt very much that it would be dull.

In fact, it is because more and more people are finding their lives to be mundane that a major shift in society is becoming more and more likely. Complacent people are easy to satisfy...but it's not that bigof a stretch from "complacent" to "restless"...and a group of restless, frustrated people are potentially hazardous. Again, I do not embrace disaster with joy in my heart...I'm just trying to be pragmatic.