Proof that prophecy doesn't work

I have proof to you all, that prophecy is a big waste of time and doesn't work. My idea is very simple.

There are thousands of people linking thousands of prophecies to real events. There is an ongoing debate on either side (in some cases for centuries!!), whether or not it's true and the debate seems endless.

My idea is simply this.

Whether or not prophecy is true, is actually irrelevant.

The relevant thing is: Can the prophecy can actually warn us about things BEFORE they happen.

So I have a simple question.

Name one prophecy that has happened that someone revealed the nature of it BEFORE the event happened and used it to either prevent the event or at least alter the event.

The bottom line is, prophecy is too vague and is done in that way, to be that way. Nostradamus made his quatrains to be really vague and applicable in ANY AGE because he claimed of oppression. But what oppression will he face making a prophecy about 1999?

It is just a matter of time before his prophecy will match better and better to new and upcoming events.

But what good is that, if you can use it to predict anything??

This is a simple idea that most overlook.

Even if BABA YAGA or whoever makes a prophecy and they are really vague and are up to interpretation. What good is it, if you can't use it to overt the disaster or at least change it?

So prophecy is useless.

If prophecy really existed, it would be very specific. AND NOT ONLY THAT, there would be a lot of evidence around the prophecy before hand, that would allow you to divert or alter the event, so that it doesn't happen.

But that is not the case.

I am interested to see hear people answer this simple question.

I agree with this totally, Prophecy is only used after an event has occurred, it is impossible to use a Prophecy to alter or stop an event, because if you could and did, then the event wouldn't happen and therefore the Prophet wouldn't be able to Prophecies it, simple logic. It is easy to manipulate Nostradamus' quatrains to fit world events, AFTER they've happened.

1st day on ATS - Learning every second - Love It!

Lost my last post.. but here goes anyway.

If you really want to see prophecy that has been prophysied before hand and can be proven, there is one source I know of that has never missed. Not once in hundreds if not thousands of prophecies(events predicted) has there been an error. Right on 100% of the time

Where can you find such predictions that have all come true.....

Why of course, The Bible... and if I need to give you 5 or 10 thats fine. Now here's the best part. There are many more prophecys that have yet to be fufilled. And as much as I can promise anything...I promise you...every one of the rest will also come true. Good for some.....Bad for some.
Just my 2 cents

reply to post by ghpink


Excellent point and good question. The Bible is up to this challenge my friend. Consider this warning that Jesus gave to his followers from Luke 21.

20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21“Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

When the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD, they first surrounded the city under the Roman general Cestius Gallus. However mysteriously they pulled back. In fact the Jews of the day scored a surprise victory against Cestius when he retreated, giving them a false sense of confidence.

During this pause in the attack, christians who knew of Jesus' prophecy fled Jerusalem just as commanded. They were all spared, but when the Roman armies returned under Titus it was horrendous for the citizens of that city. They starved them out to the point where women were eating their own babies to survive. Interesting, even during Titus' attack he mysteriously pulled his armies back and allowed a temporary relief of the siege. During this time more christians fled Jerusalem. It is thought that Titus had heard word of Nero's death. Returning to the siege he laid waste to Jerusalem.
christeternalchristianchurch.com...

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by ghpink

 

Excellent point and good question. The Bible is up to this challenge my friend. Consider this warning that Jesus gave to his followers from Luke 21.

20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21“Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

When the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD, they first surrounded the city under the Roman general Cestius Gallus. However mysteriously they pulled back. In fact the Jews of the day scored a surprise victory against Cestius when he retreated, giving them a false sense of confidence.

During this pause in the attack, christians who knew of Jesus' prophecy fled Jerusalem just as commanded. They were all spared, but when the Roman armies returned under Titus it was horrendous for the citizens of that city. They starved them out to the point where women were eating their own babies to survive. Interesting, even during Titus' attack he mysteriously pulled his armies back and allowed a temporary relief of the siege. During this time more christians fled Jerusalem. It is thought that Titus had heard word of Nero's death. Returning to the siege he laid waste to Jerusalem.
christeternalchristianchurch.com...

That doesn't meet my criteria. There are no dates given in the bible. That could happen at any time, so how could I stop it from happening if I have no clue when throughout history it would happen.

If I get bible prophecy in the year 1000 CE, then I have to wait how long before it happens? Then if it doesn't happen, we would have to look to the scriptures again and try to landmark it on another event in another time.

So my question still stands. What good is any prophecy if it doesn't give you exact dates, so you can actually try to change the outcome?

Bible prophecy is some of the worst in my mind, because at least nostradamus gave SOME DATES. For the most part he never gave dates, but at least he did.

Funny how there is one billion replies in the prophecy forum, but yet only 2 people decided to take on this simple idea...

Originally posted by dakota1s2

Lost my last post.. but here goes anyway.

If you really want to see prophecy that has been prophysied before hand and can be proven, there is one source I know of that has never missed. Not once in hundreds if not thousands of prophecies(events predicted) has there been an error. Right on 100% of the time

Where can you find such predictions that have all come true.....

Why of course, The Bible... and if I need to give you 5 or 10 thats fine. Now here's the best part. There are many more prophecys that have yet to be fufilled. And as much as I can promise anything...I promise you...every one of the rest will also come true. Good for some.....Bad for some.
Just my 2 cents

You can claim that 1 billion prophecies are correct and we can debate this forever. That is not what I am asking. I asked a simple question. Name any prophecy that gave dates and was accurate, so that others could try to stop the event from happening.

Isn't that was prophecy is supposed to be about? Its supposed to tell you whats going to happen in the future. But what good is prophecy, EVEN IF IT WORKS, if you don't get a date and place of when its happening.

So sure, send me those examples that fit my criteria. Its a simple request. If prophecy does work, there must be one occasion in all of history where someone actually predicted something and gave dates and the place.

I thought it was a simple request anyways

There are several prophecies in the Bible in detail that specifically say that in the last days Israel would be brought back into their borders and restablished as a nation. That happened in 1948. They hadn't been an official nation under their own power since Babylon.

Another prophecy specifically stated that they would take back Jerusalem after they were put back in the land. That happened in 1967.

So many people have tried to wipe out the Jews that it was highly unlikely that they would become one of the most powerful nations in the middle east. Believe what you want, but prophecy is real.

reply to post by prophecy4


Care to share those verses? I would like to debate about those verses you claim are accurate. I bet you believe Jesus is God, The Messiah, a Prophet and the Son of God as well?
Here's a list of articles I would love you to read.
Propchey

reply to post by ghpink


Web Bot seems to be accurate. However, I cannot find info as per specific predicted dates. There seems to be a time bracket for the predictions.

Much like a fortune teller will tell you that your luck is about to change. I say the mountains will glow purple within a few days time.

Here are five "supposed" Web Bot predictions that came true.
I cannot find the prior proof for these these either.

doomsday2012webbot.blogspot.com...

reply to post by ghpink
ghpiink,

Prophecy is not given for anyone to prevent anything but to warn and tell future history. I'll give you one, please read it and hang on to your seat belt for it will happen and the time is growing short for this event. No no exact dates are given and for a reason and that is evil men would make a terrible use of it. Read please - -

Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

That abomination is Satan coming and personating Christ as God in the Holy place, Mk 13;14 adds "ought not".
This is the grandaddy of all abominations but has been Satan's desire from the beginning.

Mt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Note! "neither on the Sabbath day".

The problem is not the prophecy not being accurate, the problem is people's interpretations of them and all the false prophets, You are warned of the false prophets and Satan has seen to that by spreading false information, disinformation and wrong interpretations.

Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

That is the case and the problem, and not the prophecy.

The truth of the prophecies are only understood Dan. says by the wise, well you can be of the wise if you study His Word and become one of His Redeemed.

Da 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

That is just the Truth and it will not fail, He is True and Faithful.

Truthiron

Just a food for thought: If a prophecy is made by a person called 'A', and 'A' successfully altered the event, the prophecy becomes 'false' because the prophecy could never come true because 'A' had altered, changed or stopped the event. Therefore, a prophecy cannot become real (hence, the prophecy is wrong) because the event had never happened.

Taking into context, that means a prophet who prophesied an air crash because of terrorism for example, had given an exact date on an international interview. The terrorist,who had watched that interview (slim chance?) called off the attack. Hence, the air crash never happened, and caused the prophet to become a false prophet. In this case, prophecy did work... but it became 'false'.

Does that makes sense?

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by ghpink

 

ghpiink,

Prophecy is not given for anyone to prevent anything but to warn and tell future history.

Well you're wrong!

It won't warn you at all. If you have a prophecy that was made, like the ones in the bible, well when was that written down? Maybe 600 ACE or subscribe a date (it doesnt matter)

The point is, for 1200 years, no one would know when this was going to happen. Everyone would think it was happening in THEIR AGE, because they had no reference and no dates by which time it would happen.

So I go back to my initial point...

WHAT GOOD IS IT?

If you can't tell when its going to happen, then all you do is probably worry your whole life that its going to happen and it never does. Think of all the lives of the people who lived from the time of the prophecy you just gave me. Well it never happened in their lifetime. So what good was it to them?

I think you are missing my point.. .and no offense but why do so few have common sense on these forums???

Its pointless to listen to prophecy and try to alter the future. By my definition, it is set in stone and will happen. So in a sense you are right, it doesn't "work" because there is no chance that you could stop what was happening.

I FORESEE THAT IT WILL RAIN....sometime in the near and not too distant future, does this mean i can see the future? F**K NO, it just means i am a good guesser, especilly if its something that happens on a normal basis.

Like saying "many people of the world will slaughter eachother with no remorse" uh dont know if you have been on this planet long but...THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE DAWN OF MAN.

Every generation thinks they will see the end of the world, why? because our brains our programed to, which is what makes us mate, so we continue our line, so whoever started this thread, your probally the only person on ATS who has the ability to think logically.

Originally posted by ghpink
If prophecy really existed, it would be very specific. AND NOT ONLY THAT, there would be a lot of evidence around the prophecy before hand, that would allow you to divert or alter the event, so that it doesn't happen.

But that is not the case.

If prophecy existed, who are you to say what would happen? I could also argue that prophecy would be vague simple BECAUSE it is not meant to help or change the time line substantially, we as humans are supposed to take vague advice and make our own decisions in order to further the future.

Furthermore, there is probably a reason why prophecies are often vague. (Even though your claim that all of them are vague is not true, there have been specific claims even if they weren't "famous".) Considering how many people the event will impact personally, many different choices could be made which would alter how, where, when and why the event happens.

As to your thing about prophecies not helping divert, this is also not true. You or I don't know what happens behind the scenes and catastrophes could be avoided everyday without our knowing. Also, if you've ever personally had your "fortune read" by a true seer, you will know that vague advice is just enough to make you aware when things happen. Of course you don't live everyday by it, but coupled with intuition and logic, prophecy can be very helpful.

Isaiah-
For the nation and kingdom which will not serve you shall perish, And those nations shall be utterly ruined.

Mark-
And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Luke-
They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time(notice time) of God's coming to you.

Hebrews-
Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

Acts-
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
Its pointless to listen to prophecy and try to alter the future. By my definition, it is set in stone and will happen. So in a sense you are right, it doesn't "work" because there is no chance that you could stop what was happening.

I don't agree with this either...

IF PROPHECY did work, it would be very specific and give you times and dates and it would allow you to change the event.

It was said many times that Nostradamus' prophecies were not written in stone. That they were probable likely futures that would happen if nothing was done or changed. They would be futures that would happen because of cycles and natural selection.

So prophets would just tell of possible likely futures, and give you the chance to alter them.

God said he gave us free will, so if this is true and prophecy is true, we should be able to change what ever we like in what ever way.

BUT if prophecy is true, there must be a way to verify it. If there is no way of verifying it, then what good is it?

Originally posted by Anthony1138
I FORESEE THAT IT WILL RAIN....sometime in the near and not too distant future, does this mean i can see the future? F**K NO, it just means i am a good guesser, especilly if its something that happens on a normal basis.

Like saying "many people of the world will slaughter eachother with no remorse" uh dont know if you have been on this planet long but...THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE DAWN OF MAN.

Every generation thinks they will see the end of the world, why? because our brains our programed to, which is what makes us mate, so we continue our line, so whoever started this thread, your probally the only person on ATS who has the ability to think logically.

K NOW...

This is an interesting topic FINALLY!

I agree with the hard code that is written in to our evolution. For some reason we seem hard coded to feel the world is going to end. In every age, there are groups of these people and these groups are getting larger and larger. They seem not to act with reason but with feeling and for me, its pretty scary because you cannot use logic on these people.

So why do you think our brains seem to be hard coded for this thought? There must have been some benefit in the past, to thinking this way or acting this way.

I have personally been open to prophecy in all ways.

I had studied all of Nostradamus' quatrains. I had made the direct translations myself, in order to avoid translation errors. I have studied the bible, looked in to bible code with enthusiasm. Studied Madam Blavatsky, the sleeping prophet and even got in to the channeling in todays day and age.

When coming down to it, I find there is no where near enough evidence to support the existence and even if there way, it was useless anyways as it didnt prevent anything, didn't warn and didn't do anything except make us fear things.

Our society seems to be driven by FEAR and CONSUMPTION. Its all we ever do is fear things and consume things. We need to look towards the future as a society now and stop thinking it will end, and start planning for our future. And we also need to contain our consumption of things and find a balance.

And I don't see this balance coming from religion because most of them are built on such insecure thoughts like revelation...

Originally posted by prepared4truth

Originally posted by ghpink
If prophecy really existed, it would be very specific. AND NOT ONLY THAT, there would be a lot of evidence around the prophecy before hand, that would allow you to divert or alter the event, so that it doesn't happen.

But that is not the case.

If prophecy existed, who are you to say what would happen? I could also argue that prophecy would be vague simple BECAUSE it is not meant to help or change the time line substantially, we as humans are supposed to take vague advice and make our own decisions in order to further the future.

I don't see why certain religious people are not getting my point. So I will say it again.

I am no one to say what would happen if it existed.

I am asking a simple question, which you have missed. I have said it a few times and I will say it again.

I said, if prophecy exists or is real..... then what good is it?? I asked if it is vague and there are no specific time lines, and its not supposed to change the time line substantially... then what is its purpose?

That is the only question I really asked. You fully missed my point.

What good is it?

You also said its not supposed to change the timeline substantially, but its common knowledge that Hitler was reading Nostradaums' prophecies!! So it was substantially changing the future. So your argument is mute.

Any prophecy given changes the future if someone reads ore listens to it and follows it. So your argument means absolutely nothing.

I go back to my original premise. What good is prophecy if its so vague?