End of a nation? 'Get ready for the break-up of Belgium'

Originally posted by Hellmutt


Many of Nostradamus' quatrains mentions "the lion" and "the cock" in different scenarios. The lion could be the UK, but it could also be Flanders. The cock could be France, but could also be Wallonia (take a look at their flags, and you'll see).

"Lion and cock not too united"...

Okay... So I'm hoping that is just a BIG coincidence.

That's right, I am just going to close my eyes now and walk away...

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Oh come on, don't be so serious! I have no business or interests in Belgium, so why would I need to know where it is? Sure I could fire up wikipedia and checkout all the essentials, but you know what? I won't.. I have no use for that information.

I know the "layout" of the whole middle east, but thats because I'm interested about the situation over there.

Belgium on the other hand.. Maybe when A. Jones starts rambling about a chocolate conspiracy of epic proportions, I'll take a look at the world map

reply to post by ickylevel


Humbug. I live in Flanders and every poll indicates that a majorty of Flemish do not want to secede. Nor do I. Your assessment that we "have a reputation of being a bunch of bastards" is as ridiculous as the assessment that Walloons have the reputation of being lazy. I thought the idea of this site was to deny ignorance, not promote it.

Belgium is a lovely country, and the Belgian people from my experience are nice.

The future is in their hands, or rather, in the hands of those with power, and those of the EU.

If Belgium splits up, I hope for a similar and peacful result akin to the break-up of Czechoslovakia, and not Yugoslavia.

I am sad to say in these situations of the threat of break-ups, extreme nationalist rabble-rousers are prone to raising their heads and stirring up trouble.

I only hope that should a break-up occur, Belgium sees no bloodshed. Belgium was at the epicentre of some truly bloody and horrific battles in WW1 and WW2 and even before, and I hope such blood-letting on Belgian soil is a thing of the past.

reply to post by steve_montana


We really need someone like you from Belgium to explain what's been happening during the last years. It's hard to follow it on the msm as they are always sensationalizing on a possible break up of the country.

It looks like a political struggle with flemish/waloon identity squabbles overlaid. It's hard to have an acurate view being ignorant of belgian domestic politics.

So what is the new nation going to be called? Flanders??

I wonder what the Dutch have to do with all of this?

I only ask that based on History.

Ah yes, Belgium, a nation invented by the British in order to upset the French. Humour aside, it will probably be best for the people - if Belgium decades to break up. The hubristic nature of politicians, to assume "it will be alright in the end" is, categorically, bollocks.

It's what the EU wants. Brussells will become the same unique administrative area as District of Columbia. Something the European Commission has advocated since The Treaty of Maastricht.

reply to post by lynxlynx


LOL.

Fair enough, but I think it's at least useful to have a grasp of basic geography within your region, because geography plays a big part in politics !


[edit on 6-9-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

reply to post by lynxlynx


That is something to be real proud of!! Well done.

There are very few people that are proud to wallow in their ignorance.

Keep it up your parents will be proud.

Originally posted by Helig
The interesting part is that they mention that Belgium currently holds the EU Presidency until the end of the year, so if things are to go sour between the various groups represented in the talks I wonder what level of larger impact that could have in regards to the European Union as a whole?

This has been on the cards for a while.. The plan from a number of high profile politicians in the Northern Flemish half seems to be to evaporate Flanders into the EU as a region and let Wallonia (South) decide what they want to do..

This "Evaporation" is now possible (albeit very complicated) as a result of the fact that the EU is now a State with Sovereignty as a result of the Lisbon Treaty coming into force on Dec 1st last year.

The running of the EU presidency is no more really than a position to create direction for the Union and what will happen here is that more power will shift permanently towards Van Rompoy's position as President of the Council of Commissioners.

Also, if Belgium does "Evaporate" into the EU as an Autonomous region.. This leaves the door open for other troubled regions to do the same.. Instantly regions that come to Mind are Catalonia in Spain, Basque in Spain, Northern Ireland & Scotland in the distant future if their political dissent towards the Crown increases sizably etc etc etc.

Its very interesting.. Personally I think it needs to be done. The South and North of Belgium are not alike enough to be a country and if Flanders wants out, it should be allowed out... But only if the people say so.. And the democratic process must decide it.

It would change so many things in Europe though, it would be a cascade.

[edit on 6/9/10 by Dermo]

reply to post by Manouche


There is some pretty decent information to be found on wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

It's really too much for me to summarize here. But it does make for some entertaining/depressing reading (depending on your mood).

[edit on 6-9-2010 by steve_montana]

reply to post by muzzleflash


Well, some Dutch politicians have talked about attaching Flanders to the Netherlands and recent polls in The Netherlands have indicated that a considerable part of the Dutch population is in favor of such a move. However, only a tiny fraction of Flemish support this idea.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by steve_montana]

reply to post by ickylevel


You don't really know what you are talking about, do you?

reply to post by steve_montana


Considering that many Flemish are antipathetic towards the Dutch, it doesn't surprise me that there is little support for a reunification of Flanders and the Netherlands (Greater Netherlands). Having lived close to the Belgium border most of my life (I love Brussels, Antwerp and Brugge), I personally would not have any problems with it, instead - I would welcome it and I think it would benefit both 'nations'.

However, I am pretty sure the Flemish would never agree. After all, wasn't the fact that the northern provinces of the low lands (which are now part of the Netherlands) were the most dominant and wealthy, which among others ultimately formed the motivation that ushered in the Belgian revolution?



[edit on 6-9-2010 by Mdv2]

reply to post by Dermo

Actually Scotland is indefinately suspending the proposed independence referendum. The SNP has lost much of it's clout and popularity. Scottish independence is about as likely as New York becoming an independent nation - a pipe dream of a delusional few who watched Braveheart and Rob Roy a few times too many.

reply to post by Mdv2

u must be flemish to mate.... I'm from the bordertown of Menen. And IMHO Belgium is never going to split up for the simple reason that the french "belgians" are never gonna give up the money from the "Dutch' belgians .....


just my 2cents on the whole cr*p

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by buddhasystemDid you have as much sadness for Kosovo back 10 years ago?

I still have sadness for Kosovo, ten years on.

It's a shame that their state is officially in limbo, because of the ridiculous back-scratching, and counter bank-scratching, between the ''international community''. I fully back Kosova independence.


Did your post have a point, other than a forced analogy/logical fallacy, relating to one of my posts ?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way.

There is no logical fallacy in pointing out your strange attitude regarding statehood of Belgium and how (albeit distantly) it relates to statehood of Serbia. You are decrying one and praise the other. Seems rather schizophrenic.

reply to post by ChrisF231


Yea, I know that. Thats why I said "Distant Future".. And in 50/60 years, anything is possible.

Tbh, I think that many of those in positions of Power in the EU plan to allow this system to develop throughout the EU.. With only the Remaining 7/8 powers keeping their sovereignty for the next century before seceding it to the EU state..

Its all speculation though.. So much has to happen first.

Oh dear, where will Europe use as our war arena if Belgium is no more?

Only been to Brussells once and Antwerp twice and the people seemed really nice.
Never been anywhere in the French speaking part of Belgium.

It would be a shame if the break up of Belgium was used to further the intentions and aims of the Eurocrats.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
There is no logical fallacy in pointing out your strange attitude regarding statehood of Belgium and how (albeit distantly) it relates to statehood of Serbia. You are decrying one and praise the other.

It is fallacious to bring up an entirely unrelated issue, that has no bearing on my opinions that I expressed earlier on in this therad.

You are totally illogical, if you think that you can equate two entirely different issues, just because they have a very superficial similarity.

Carry on.

[edit on 6-9-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]