OP-ED: The last refuge of a liberal

From Charles Krauthammer in the Washington Post.

Instead of a quick dismissal, I challenge liberals here to read what Krauthammer actually says before posting - or choosing not to post. IMO this is a very powerful op-ed piece that squarely hits the nail on the head.

We have a lot of members casually and constantly throwing out the race and bigotry cards to try and silence debate and dissent against the obama administration and its policies - without ever dealing with the actual message.

Again, try reading the entire article - and not just what I have quoted - before responding.

Thank you.

Washington Post Op-Ed

What's a liberal to do? Pull out the bigotry charge, the trump that preempts debate and gives no credit to the seriousness and substance of the contrary argument. The most venerable of these trumps is, of course, the race card. When the Tea Party arose, a spontaneous, leaderless and perfectly natural (and traditionally American) reaction to the vast expansion of government intrinsic to the president's proudly proclaimed transformational agenda, the liberal commentariat cast it as a mob of angry white yahoos disguising their antipathy to a black president by cleverly speaking in economic terms.

and

It is a measure of the corruption of liberal thought and the collapse of its self-confidence that, finding itself so widely repudiated, it resorts reflexively to the cheapest race-baiting (in a colorful variety of forms).

So, the other challenge to liberals is that surely you can rise above racial and "shoot the messenger" cheap shots to debate the actual issues that confront us. Likewise, conservatives need to move on from the birther controversy to also debate those same issues.


[edit on 8/27/2010 by centurion1211]

Likewise, conservatives need to move on from the birther controversy to also debate those same issues.

That is the crux of the problem, isn't it? With all the nutty accusations of Obama being a Stalinist, Marxist, Communist, Nazi, socialist, reverse racist, elitist, Muslim, Kenyan, anti-Christ. What rational debate do you expect us to have? And with who? And about what? What are the REAL issues with Obama? Can conservatives come up with a specific issue that is based in reality?

It is like trying to comfort a 4 yr old that is afraid of a dragon under his bed.

Certainly no conservative would do such things!
[color=414141]Subliminal Manipulation today. can you see it?

Originally posted by centurion1211
From Charles Krauthammer in the Washington Post.

Instead of a quick dismissal, I challenge liberals here to read what Krauthammer actually says before posting - or choosing not to post.

i have some liberal views. ok, i will bite.

We have a lot of members casually and constantly throwing out the race and bigotry cards to try and silence debate and dissent against the obama administration and its policies - without ever dealing with the actual message.

you might regret this....

Washington Post Op-Ed

What's a liberal to do? Pull out the bigotry charge, the trump that preempts debate and gives no credit to the seriousness and substance of the contrary argument. .

i have seen Sean Hannity do those same things. Maybe this makes some commentators on FOX News Liberals then?

originally posted by NoRegretsEver
1 Interpreting Media NLP Neuro-linguistic programming

2 Interpreting Media Neuro-linguistic programming or NLP

more about how they subliminially influence (brain rape) their audience:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
(also in my signature)

So, we see Sean Hannity bring up the bigotry charge by mentioning the Jews.

So, we see Sean Hannity use his platform to pre-empt debate.

So, we see Sean Hannity give no credit to his guest who offers contrary arguments, arguments Sean Hannity does not address, rather deflects.

So, we see Sean Hannity pre-emptively deflate the seriousness and substance of the contrary argument.

Sean Hannity must be a Liberal.

What's a liberal to do? Pull out the bigotry charge, the trump that preempts debate and gives no credit to the seriousness and substance of the contrary argument. .

Certainly no conservative would do such things!



edit to correct spelling.
[edit on 27-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]
centurion1211,
Or have i misinterpreted the meaning/intent of this thread and it and the article are claiming that Liberals turn to making such claims against conservatives to deminish their credibility on such issues?

after reading the article a second time it seems the claims made accuse liberals of making such accusations to further their agenda, me thinks.

either way, i think, both left and right wing tools are just shepherds on both sides of the flock, and engaged in social engineering tactics leading us in a direction, or at least trying to.

thanks for sharing with us the article none the less,
E.T.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

Conservatives, just like liberals, are no longer interested in discussing real issues. Everyone is content these days to let the right and left wing commentators spin everyone up over polarizing topics that really don't amount to much. There is no such thing a real debate. There are no issues worth discussing if it isn't related to an election cycle. During those times(much like right now), candidates come out and say whatever they think their voting base wants to hear - whether or not the candidate feels that way. Of course, I don't know why I'm telling you all. Everyone knows this already.

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


No the crux of the matter is that every time something the liberals champion is not supported they fall back on name calling like children. Racist, Islamophobic, and many other names have been thrown around. For instance what good did E. Holder do by pursuing the AZ immigration law with a law suit? Why was a effort not made by the feds to correct or at least come up w/ a compromise to deal with the issue? Instead the administration has found that a majority approved of what AZ tried and other states have since been considering laws of their own.
Yea the birther thing is played out except for the lack of any noteworthy events from Obamas life prior to his political life. So lets drop the whole BC thing it is a non issue now anyway and lets get into the cluster *** that is the country now and deal with the issues the people want and not what a select group of political doners want.

dolt double post

[edit on 27-8-2010 by hangedman13]

Oh I was confused, the Op article is an Op ED.

I thought the subject was going to be the op ed is the liberals last refuge, which sounds VASTLY more interesting than the same old same old bipartison election time rhetoric that was actually linked.

Only when we move away from the two party system and into something more progressive and forward thinking will we unite as a country.

But America seems bound and determined to remain divided one way or the other.

Be it demons repugs, be it religion secular, be it hawk dove.

Always a division.

reply to post by hangedman13

every time something the liberals champion is not supported they fall back on name calling like children.

"like children"? Hilarious! You were trying to make a point and then fell back on calling names. =FAIL.

Stalinist, Marxist, Communist, Nazi, socialist, reverse racist, elitist, Muslim, Kenyan, anti-Christ are all from who? Liberals? The name calling started long before McCain lost, and it has continued ever since. Talk about acting like children, conservatives have been throwing a major temper tantrum since fall of '08.


P.s. what have the liberals championed that hasn't seen a majority of support?

[edit on 27-8-2010 by 12GaugePermissionSlip]

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip

EDIT: Grammar mistakes

My issues regarding President Obama (and by extension liberal leaning Congress) are the following:

--Abhorring the private sector and making the climate unstable for economic growth.

--Taxing so called 'rich' people that make over 250k a year. My sister, along with her husband make this much and do so out of necessity because they chose to have a large family. Why should they punished for being successful and responsible?

--Why the opposition towards Arizona and "Sheriff Joe" specifically via the extension of the Justice Department?

Just to name a few if you want to debate and discuss

[edit on 27-8-2010 by ownbestenemy]

There is WAY more FOOLISHNESS coming out of the conservative camps!!

WAY MORE!!!!

The TRUTH is that they ARE in fact like 4 year olds doing all kinds of BASELESS name-calling, starting rumors making up TOTAL lies.

The conservative head-figures, and idiotic cult members are looking SO OVERWHELMINGLY FOOLISH any more, that I find it nearly impossible that anyone BUT A NEANDERTHAL can be a conservative supporter or be affiliated with that cult any longer.

GEEZ!!!






[edit on 27-8-2010 by Baloney]

reply to post by Baloney


Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. If your post was done in satire, then forgive me, but it was not even remotely portrayed as such.

All you are doing is continuing the momentum for more infighting amongst the people.

Conservatives generally have ideas that can be loosely put together and Liberals have the same. There is a large center area where most Americans reside and when the country swings too far out of that center, dissension is the result.

Note what connects these issues. In every one, liberals have lost the support the Arizona law, oppose gay marriage and reject a mosque near Ground Zero.

www.washingtonpost.com...

..because Mr Krauthammer apparently assumes this nation to be ruled by a mob right?

hmmm this guy looks fimiliar....



Yep, another neoconservate I see. I did read his OP-ED and really found it to be no different than anything else Iv heard him spew before.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Neither party or side has it 100% right. But I do know who is the worst of the two.

I know that if the Right-wing side was in control, we would most likely be in a hole SO DEEP right now that we would be unable to climb out of it for a few generations.

The right-wing and conservatives need to be exposed for what they are. When they STOP pulling their NONSENSE, then other issues can be discussed.

But as of now, they are ACTING LIKE FOOLS and have no ideas or plans to better the situation and they resort only to spewing NONSENSE, PROPAGANDA, and LIES so that they can fool those who dont research on their own. Thats their golden plan and they have NOTHING ELSE to contribute but that type of unproductive nonsense.

They have shown their PLANS and WAY of doing things already. And EVERY TIME they are in control, the COUNTRY LOSES BAD.

Those BUMS need to be kept OUT OF OFFICE for the sake of everyone in the country. They have no game plan and will BURY the country if they become in control.

reply to post by Baloney


Ah, no ideas right?

So because they may not have the idea at the moment, but know that allowing such things as the health-care bill, wall-street bill, etc go through without anyone on Capital Hill even understanding what they are voting for is acting like a fool.....all on the premise that they have no ideas.

I will agree that neither party has it 100% correct...only that they do have it 100% correct in the game of politics. They have figured out a way to herd the sheep and know when to poke and prod to get the masses to do what they wish.

We are no longer a populace that is engaged in governance, but rather a mass of people all sucking on the tit of either Government or some talking head that tells us what we should be outraged about (which is a politicians dream.)

So tell me....minus all the bad, under 6% unemployment, rising housing prices, fairly steady private sector growth, 3% GDP growth...yep those days sucked bad. I really am glad that my nest egg that I have been working hard to save for has been completely obliterated.

It was at the hands of both Republicans and Democrats. One forced companies to do asinine things, while the other turned a blind eye to unsavory practices.

A fairly complex cat and mouse game in which we are nothing more than the cheese.

Keep thinking that those in power look upon you with empathy and compassion. They don't. They see you as a tool to the State in which can only survive through your complete subordination towards them.

Originally posted by centurion1211
When the Tea Party arose, a spontaneous, leaderless and perfectly natural (and traditionally American) reaction to the vast expansion of government intrinsic to the president's proudly proclaimed transformational agenda, the liberal commentariat cast it as a mob of angry white yahoos disguising their antipathy to a black president by cleverly speaking in economic terms.

Is this suppose to be sarcastic?

The "Tea Party" movement is the exact opposite of grassroots...

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Well let's go then.

My issues regarding President Obama (and by extension liberal leaning Congress) are the following: --Abhorring the private sector and making the climate unstable for economic growth.

Oh yes, he soooo hates the private sector sooooo much that he sent 46 million new customers to the insurance companies.
www.msnbc.msn.com...
One of the main reasons progressives are starting to distance themselves from Obama is he panders to Wall St. and corporations way too much.

Taxing so called 'rich' people that make over 250k a year. My sister, along with her husband make this much and do so out of necessity because they chose to have a large family. Why should they punished for being successful and responsible?

Boo-effing-hoo for them. I raised 3 kids on $37,000. How many kids do they have, 27? And how exactly do you make 250k out of necessity? I want to learn that trick.
"Why should they punished for being successful and responsible?" Do you call a federal income tax rise of 3% being punished? As far as I am concerned, when Bush gave them that tax cut, middle and lower class Americans were being punished. Remember the 'good ol' days' when American was prosperous and families only needed dad to work one job? Back then the tax rate on your sister and brother would have been 90%!! Didn't hear a lot of complaints about being punished back then...no...because the wealthy felt a sense of patriotism in paying more when they had more. Not today though. Now it's punishment to pay a measly 3% more in federal income tax.

As these figures make clear, the richest Americans are not being “overtaxed” relative to other Americans or relative to their share of national income."
The top 1% pays 30.9% of their income in taxes.
The next 4% pays 32.1%
the next 5% pays 32.2%
the next 10% pays 31.5%
the next 20% pays 30%
the next 20% pays 27%
the next 20% pays 22.3%
and the poorest of the poor with an income of $12,000 or less pays 18.7%.
www.ctj.org...

Why the opposition towards Arizona and "Sheriff Joe" specifically via the extension of the Justice Department?

Because in my America, we don't walk around like the GD Nazi SS asking for papers. Is that what you want? Then who will be next? The Irish? The Italians? You?

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


I'll bite sunshine What level of support does the AZ immigration bill have? The overturning of the CA gay marriage ban? Or how about the planned mosque? Given the normal bias in polls we still end up with large scale public support for those issues. Actually it is not mob rule it is majority rule. The majority of people are getting shut out by the minority. The popular support that got the liberals into office is waning due to the majority being snubbed. So now they must reap what they've sown.

Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip

Likewise, conservatives need to move on from the birther controversy to also debate those same issues.

That is the crux of the problem, isn't it? With all the nutty accusations of Obama being a Stalinist, Marxist, Communist, Nazi, socialist, reverse racist, elitist, Muslim, Kenyan, anti-Christ. What rational debate do you expect us to have? And with who? And about what? What are the REAL issues with Obama? Can conservatives come up with a specific issue that is based in reality?

It is like trying to comfort a 4 yr old that is afraid of a dragon under his bed.

Hey, I was only trying to offer a level playing field for this thread. Something I ALWAYS advocate.

Did you read the article? What I am hoping for from liberals is something more substantial than insults and name calling as these very important to the nation are debated. I said conservatives should do the same. Are you still stuck there? Seems like it from your post.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Yep, another neoconservate I see. I did read his OP-ED and really found it to be no different than anything else Iv heard him spew before.

And When i read his article, I found his descriptions fit what many liberals post here ad nauseum - everyone that disagrees with liberals is some combination of racist, bigot, or stupid.

As a comparison, conservatives call liberals none of those things. Worst you get is "misguided", or under the influence of the "kool-aid".

Not quite in the same league as insults go, now is it?

Now which is the "nice" party again?

Holy Crap!

I agree with somewhat Charles Krauthammer! Somebody get me a gun, my life is about to end!

I want to share something with you I found online last night, this article made me think about it when I was first reading it.

1896 US Presidential Election

McKinley forged a coalition in which businessmen, professionals, skilled factory workers and prosperous farmers were heavily represented; he was strongest in the Northeast, Upper Midwest, and Pacific Coast. Bryan was the nominee of the Democrats, the Populist Party, and the Silver Republicans. He was strongest in the South, rural Midwest, and Rocky Mountain states.

Now check this out!

2008 US Election map

The Democrats did best in the Northeast, Midwest and Pacific States. The Republicans did best in the South, Great Plains and Rocky Mountain states. See the similarities?


William Bryan Jennings was an Old School Democrat, before what is known as the '60s Liberals moved from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party. The Republican Party use to be the party of the elite, but now it is the Democratic Party voters and the people who the Republican cater to.

When the Democrats were told to Have their feet on the ground and their heads in the crowds the Democrats thought they said, Have your feet on the ground and your head in the clouds.

Populism, Economic Nationalism and Equality should be the message that the Democrats espouse again! Let the elite run back to the Republican Party, the only way for true Progressive Economics could be truly implemented is for us to crack down on immigration and deport all illegal’s. We need to have racial, ethnic and sexual equality, but we need to not forget the true history of America. We can all have freedom without treating minorities more special than the majority.

Liberals need to either conform or leave. The Democrats new strategy should be to become Populist, make promises and actually fulfill them. They should try and retake voters from the Great Plains and parts of the South. Leave all of the elitist states to wallow in their own miseries and snobby attitudes. Democrats need to leave Washington and spend more time in Grand Island, Nebraska or Fayetteville, Arkansas. Working class America should be their first priority again.

Attack consumerism, internationalism, neo-conservatism, elitism, corporatism and moderate themselves on Social issues. Call for equality for all, but let the states handle issues such as gay marriage, abortion and school prayer.

[edit on 8/28/2010 by Misoir]