Fifth Grader Refuses To Say Pledge of Allegiance Until Gays Gain Equality

This is an interesting article about a ten year old kid that refused to say the pledge of allegiance because of the inequality of gays\lesbians\transgenders\bisexuals. Is it the parents that put him up to it, or was this a conscious choice made by himself?

Anyway, here's some excerpts from the article:

A 10-year-old Arkansas boy name Will Phillips has decided that he cannot in good conscience pledge allegiance to the flag as long as the country for which it stands refuses legal equality to its GLBT citizens.

The West Fork School District fifth grader clashed with a substitute teacher for his refusal to stand for the pledge, prompting a call to Will’s mother, Laura Phillips. When the principal acknowledged that Will has the right to refuse to say the pledge, Ms. Phillips asked that her son receive an apology--a request that the principal declined to honor.

Fairness in this case is more than a mere abstraction, since the family has a number of openly gay friends and has participated in GLBT equality events such as Pride parades. Will, who told the newspaper that he would like to pursue a career in law when he’s older, could not square the tenets of the pledge with the political realities faced by his family’s GLBT friends, whose family and individual rights are under constant challenge.

"I really don’t feel that there’s currently liberty and justice for all," said Will.

Full article can be found here: Arkansas 10-Year-Old Won’t Pledge Allegiance Until Gays Gain Equality

What's your thoughts on this?

Edit; After consulting with neformore, this thread can stay alive.


[edit on 23/8/10 by Droogie]

Got to admire the kid for being determined. He was doing this back in 2009:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I agree. I'm not American but I support this kid.

Good for him, and how petty and awful that Principal did not apologize to the child.

I would be following up with the school board, so this school district can learn what civil rights are, and yes, teachers they are afforded to students.

I would also ask that the teacher be reprimanded for singling out the child who was only utilizing his civil rights, and then for harrassment of the parent over a non issue.

The principal would then be next on my list, she definitely owes this kid an apology and so does the teacher.

And coming from ARKANSAS, I say this is a breath of fresh air, and a welcome new spirit of youth (I Hope more kids follow this ones example and get interested in civics and civil rights!!)

A ten year old can make their own choices, I can tell my ten yr old to something at school, but if I am not there how am I going to make sure he does it, unless he really wanted to do this, it would not have happened.

I love this kid, has Ellen called for an interview yet?

What legal equality exactly?

They mention that he wants them to be equal but they make no mention of what his actual grievances are.

Makes me wonder if he's not being puppeted by some of those friends of the family the article mentions.

[edit on 8/23/2010 by eNumbra]

Originally posted by Droogie
Is it the parents that put him up to it, or was this a conscious choice made by himself?

ionteresting question, one could simply state that conscious choice itself is an illusion, a manifestation of former programming by others to determine how you will act and react given influence and experience....do you choose your thoughts based on creative ability with no influences from others in your circle, or are you simply a biproduct of others in your life as they are products of others in their life and so on.

of course their parents influenced his stand somewhat, and perhaps a gay friend or two, and a television show he enjoys, perhaps a book he read, etc...people are almost incapable of original thinking...when someone thinks of something new or different, we call them genius's or madmen...the rest are simply replicated thought association monkeys (myself included for the most part).

And, good for him...America is about freedom of speech and expression...and he is doing just that.

Originally posted by eNumbra
What legal equality exactly?

They mention that he wants them to be equal but they make no mention of what his actual grievances are.

Makes me wonder if he's not being puppeted by some of those friends of the family the article mentions.

[edit on 8/23/2010 by eNumbra]

Yeah, how dare that 5th grader not make actual points so we can scrutinize them.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Dang, I thought I did a good job of making sure this wasn't old material on ATS. Sorry for that, but at least no one got hurt. I'll check with a mod and ask to get this thread locked down if he\she sees it to be fitting.

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Yeah, how dare that 5th grader not make actual points so we can scrutinize them.

When you have an argument or a grievance; especially one in which you contend that someone's rights are being trampled, it's best that you actually have the points to enumerate rather than spout catchy slogans and parrot talking points.

Surely you don't assume I'm so ignorant as to scrutinize the kid himself rather than what his points are. I'll happily discuss his position once I know what it actually is.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Yeah, how dare that 5th grader not make actual points so we can scrutinize them.

When you have an argument or a grievance; especially one in which you contend that someone's rights are being trampled, it's best that you actually have the points to enumerate rather than spout catchy slogans and parrot talking points.

Surely you don't assume I'm so ignorant as to scrutinize the kid himself rather than what his points are. I'll happily discuss his position once I know what it actually is.

He's 10 years old, he probably doesn't know much about gay rights, but wants to stand up for something that he sees as an injustice in the world.

Originally posted by hippomchippo
He's 10 years old, he probably doesn't know much about gay rights, but wants to stand up for something that he sees as an injustice in the world.

And if he's been the victim of a pseudo-brainwashing? Should it be allowed? or should he be shown how he's been used.


I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't protest something that they have a severe lack of understanding of, I won't stop them from doing so, but a ten year-old standing up for someone's rights is bound to get lots of publicity. Makes him a perfect spokesperson; especially when his actions get him ridicule from his classmates.

Children are easily manipulated and I don't understand why you seem to object to a better understanding as to whether this kid is a pawn or not.

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by hippomchippo
He's 10 years old, he probably doesn't know much about gay rights, but wants to stand up for something that he sees as an injustice in the world.

And if he's been the victim of a pseudo-brainwashing? Should it be allowed? or should he be shown how he's been used.


I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't protest something that they have a severe lack of understanding of, I won't stop them from doing so, but a ten year-old standing up for someone's rights is bound to get lots of publicity. Makes him a perfect spokesperson; especially when his actions get him ridicule from his classmates.

Children are easily manipulated and I don't understand why you seem to object to a better understanding as to whether this kid is a pawn or not.

I'm not objecting to it, I'm just saying my opinion of why the kid is saying this.

I know parents brainwash their children, it happens all the time, but that doesn't mean that children can't have viewpoints of their own on controversial topics sometimes.

Originally posted by hippomchippo


I know parents brainwash their children, it happens all the time, but that doesn't mean that children can't have viewpoints of their own on controversial topics sometimes.

Of course they can; I want to know whether this opinion is his own or not.

reply to post by Droogie



Why dont they just do away with marriage altogether? That way we wont have to here peoples mouths anymore about it? I support that end the slave trade known as marriage. Two, three, four, people want to live together let them do it. No more marriage.

reply to post by SaturnFX


You make some interesting points, but does this kid represent a new paradigm-shift regarding the stance on libertarian rights for his generation? Or can this be the case if his parents have programmed him to do anything specific about it, as might have happened in this instance?

Or is this in fact an extraordinary case of a kid standing up for what he believes in by following his own moral compass, without insctructions from any third party?

I don't say he can't be influenced by others, but it's another thing to be instructed. He may also feel inclined to take this stance as many of his parents' friends are homosexuals\lesbians, and this is just morals in it's most simplest of forms

I smell a rat.
It's obious this kid was encouraged and prepped to say those things by some gay rights activist.

This should be considered some type of child abuse because this kid should be concerened with normal 5th grade activities.

reply to post by Alxandro


By that, are you implying that this might be somekind of publicity stunt? Or a result of an agenda by the gay rights activists?

I could imagine it to be possible, interesting thought though.

Alxandro, really? Child abuse? Because the child is not interested in what he should be? according to what highly qualified opinion? If you smell a rat you might wanna check yourself.

"First they came for, the people who didn't think like me, and I told them to take them bas-turds away" freckin idiot

I see no reason to suspect the parents. Nation with millions and millions in schools, you think kids don't go home and see the news or talk world issues with their parents, you think they all think the same, hanah montanna and call of duty? Plenty of kids care about what's going on. They may have faulty or immature reasoning, but they don't have to be put on to stand out. I remember not wanting to do the pledge of allegiance just because it was so daily expected and I also felt no one deserved my allegiance. This was at 11/12.

I say EVERYONE should stand behind a kid like this, of course he needs discussion, to be grounded out, but who cares, he's got nerve and the desire to make a difference thats what counts. If his parents put him up to it I think it'd show very quickly, how far will a 10 year old go with something he doesn't believe in? Not saying there's a limit, I just don't see it in my mind is all.

[edit on 23-8-2010 by Theblackout]

Laura Phillips told the Arkansas Times that her 10-year-old is "probably more aware of the meaning of the pledge than a lot of adults. He’s not just doing it rote recitation. We raised him to be aware of what’s right, what’s wrong, and what’s fair."

Here, from the source article. The parents are obviously proud that their child is educated. Any parent is allowed to educate their child how they see fit, no? What are you to do about this? They've given their child information, and probably a bias, and the child took it an ran. What do you expect? If I talk to a child about medicine and the many ill side effects of pharma, what is social opinion to me? Nothing, I care about him, and that HE knows, to beware of those that act like they have the answer to everything. Do you believe children should monotonously ring the pledge daily before they understand a nitwit of what their country is, or only that people should not argue a case unless they have a thorough understanding?

Also, did anyone note that he had skipped a grade? He might be quite the 11 year old that your unwilling to admit in your mind.

Originally posted by eNumbra
When you have an argument or a grievance; especially one in which you contend that someone's rights are being trampled, it's best that you actually have the points to enumerate rather than spout catchy slogans and parrot talking points.

Just because his reasons aren't stated in this little snippet, doesn't mean you can't use Google to find it out... if you're interested...

Source

They've been especially dismayed by the effort to take away the rights of homosexuals – the right to marry, and the right to adopt. Given that, Will immediately saw a problem with the pledge of allegiance.

“I've always tried to analyze things because I want to be lawyer,” Will said. “I really don't feel that there's currently liberty and justice for all.”

After asking his parents whether it was against the law not to stand for the pledge, Will decided to do something.

This kid is AMAZING! Very smart and articulate. I just wish I had had the presence of mind when I was 10 (or 20) to think about what the Pledge said and make a conscious decision whether I agreed with it or not... It wasn't until much later that I decided to refuse to say the Pledge.

Here's his spot on the Daily Show. Video

[edit on 8/23/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]