Pro abortion, anti-death penalty? What gives?

A very dear friend of mine has made me recently want to wring her neck. Not literally of course, but I get exasperated even having this argument with her. About how she can be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty.

Now let me be clear. I believe in the right of a woman to have an abortion. I do not agree with it. She will have to answer to her conscience later in life in wonder what might have been.

Anyways. Back to the discussion that is making me crazy.

My basic premise to her was either all life is sacred (as in the case of the death row inmate) or none of it is. You can't pick and choose. Either you believe all life must have a chance to live itself out or you don't.

You can't abort your child and then bitch about the right to life of a serial killer.

And yes, I do understand, and brought up the fact of people illegally convicted. I think that given today's forensics that is by far the exception rather than the rule.

I guess my problem is with the fallacy in reasoning. You either stand for life or you don't. You don't pick and choose when it suits you (although I guess that's what's she's doing) and sound rational.

Anyways. End rant. It's one of those situations where neither of us is going to convince the other so I guess it's an exersise in futility, but it was driving me nuts.

What do u think?

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Darkrunner]

I think that this lies in the fundamental "when does life begin" question and that answer will be left to someone's personal beliefs/values.

When I read your title, I was thinking the same thing, only in reverse. Pro-death penalty and anti-abortion? What gives? So many people seem to support the death penalty, but not abortion. Isn't a life, a life?

With the amount of people being released from prison due to DNA, it is more than reasonable to assume that we are murdering innocent people. In fact, our justice system is so kooky and crooked, we can't fathom to murder people on the basis of a conviction, that is if you are pro-life.

--airspoon

Edited to add:

This should just go to show how people form their political opinions. The American people seem to have lost the ability of critical self thought. Instead, we allow political pundits to do the thinking for us.

On another note, I'm not against abortion for any religious reasons or because I think a fetus is alive, rather I'm against abortion because I don't believe it is only the woman who should have a say in the matter.

A father should have just as much of a right to say whether his child is born or not. If the woman decides she wants to have the child, the father is legally responsible for that child. It's not really fair that only the woman gets to choose how ready she is, especially seeing how she won't be held financially responsible 9 times out of 10 (even more often than that).

What if a man feels he isn't ready for a child? What of the man wants to abort? Why should the woman have those choices but not the man? What if the man wants his child, yet the woman doesn't?

Because these issues can't be resolved in any logical manner, we should just ban all abortions.

--airspoon

[edit on 15-8-2010 by airspoon]

So you're pro life but also pro death penalty? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Against killing something that isn't even really "alive" yet, but for killing people that are alive?

Abortion is not killing a viable human being.

Death penalty does.

That is pretty simple and easy to understand.

Now, the anti abortionists who support th.e death penalty are the ones I cannot understand

Pro-choice is a lot different than pro-abortion. Abortion is but one of the many choices a woman is free to make, and one that few actually are "pro."

Apples and oranges, plus what airspoon and hotbakedtater said.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


And then they say: "I am pro-life" WTH!? Republican logic I think...

Wow, just wondering.


How common or rare is it to support BOTH death penalty and abortion?
Just curious.

Are you sure she's "Pro-Abortion" and doesn't just think that people might have the right to choose?

Line 2.

Originally posted by Whyhi
So you're pro life but also pro death penalty? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Against killing something that isn't even really "alive" yet, but for killing people that are alive?

I said I am in agreement with a woman's right to abort a fetus, I just don't agree with it, nor would I campaign to take that right away.

I am not in favor of the death penalty except in cases of absolute proof (i.e. the suspects semen in a corpse, video evidence of someone firing a gun and killing someone etc..)

They've proven they have nothing to offer society. Might as well cut that branch off the human genome right now..

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Darkrunner]

I fully support both. That's about all I have to say about that.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
Abortion is not killing a viable human being.

Death penalty does.

That is pretty simple and easy to understand.

Now, the anti abortionists who support th.e death penalty are the ones I cannot understand

Don't know the abortion limits in the USA here in the UK it is 24 weeks babies are born and survive the same times as others are got rid of.

Thank goodness I do not have the dealth penality to contend with.


I have had an abortion myself yet will never understand how we give them so freely, killing something that most probably would be healthy and viable, yet have a huge problem of giving someone who only has a bleak future or a short while to live a quick exit out of this world.

I saw my friend suffer horrendous pain for two weeks.

Sorry I digress

reply to post by LostNemesis


I have no idea. She may be arguing with me just for the sake of argument. Or she may have got this in her head from her professors.

She lives in the apartment below mine, so I think If I don't get in these 'debates' with her, my blood pressure numbers will be a little more acceptable....

Originally posted by Darkrunner
I think If I don't get in these 'debates' with her, my blood pressure numbers will be a little more acceptable....

You could be right. Sometimes, with all the propaganda thrown at us from all different directions, some people really don't even seem to know what they are arguing over. I hate when they use the same damn phrases and talking points as the media. Just shows they have no idea what they are going on about, but want to pretend to stand for something.

Those arguments go nowhere, even when the two people arguing agree on any given point.

Seen it too many times.

reply to post by LostNemesis


Wow. This feels really condescending. Perhaps she knows and is telling it exactly how she feels. Simply because it's not what someone else believes does not negate it or make it propaganda born.

reply to post by LadySkadi


Well, I don't see any problem with any given person feeling however they wish to feel. As long as they are able to put their own thought into it before they go spouting things they've heard from elsewhere.

Admit it will ya, we see it ALL the time.

Which is why your god murdered babies.... and children... and commanded his soilders to murder every person in the towns they invaded... to keep only the virgin females so they could rape them.....

Maybe this is the source of your ignornance.... it really is sad how pittifull religious people are.

I personally don't like the fact that the life of a (potential) human being that in the eyes of the law has done nothing wrong could be terminated. It rubs me the wrong way to think that the life would never have a chance to think for itself. I wouldn't tell a person what to do or not do with their bodies, but I would advocate to them the option of adoption. I just can't bring myself to be OK with a child deserving that fate who's never done a malicious thing to another.

On the other hand, I am very much for the option of sentencing a person to death who has been convicted of a crime in which they committed or participated in the premeditated wrongful death of a person. As of right now, the death penalty process in the United States is broken with it being a complete burden on the taxpayer and, as seen with people being confirmed innocent due to DNA testing, housing individuals who are innocent. But the system should not be thrown out with the consumerism ideology of today in exchange for a cheaper plastic substitute only for that to be thrown out in a generation's time.

No, the death penalty needs to be looked over with a fine toothed comb with attention to detail unrivaled to any other correctional or legalistic concern. This sentence of such should not be handed down to just anyone, but to those who have been proven that they have no respect toward the sanctity of innocent human life. People such as that had made their choice when they committed their crime, I see no reason for the need to respect or consider them as human beings.

I don't consider any human life as "scared" but I do think that every human life should be given a chance.

This discussion is pointless.

If you think life is sacred... Get your behind of the couch and start protesting to your government to stop killing people in their own countries. They are also representing you when they pull that trigger you know.

@ Airspoon.

Because these issues can't be resolved in any logical manner, we should just ban all abortions

You are absolutely right. It is the only logical option.

It does mean people will have to be responsible... That seems quite difficult for some.

reply to post by Darkrunner


I'll give you the opposite. The Death Penalty, which I am in favor of is a societal contract which states that if you commit heinous crimes that you forfeit your right to continue to live with the rest of us. I would only support it though for people that have committed heinous acts (no three strikes and your dead laws). This to me is different than abortion which is one person making a life/death choice versus an entire community. If you don't like the death penalty vote to abolish it - has happened all over the place. If its not a law then the community has changed its values and thats fine. I personally think confining someone to a small cell for 50-60 years is worse. The is a fetus alive debate will never be settled - how people can argue that its not a life is beyond me. It has no choice in the matter and didn't do anything to deserve to be aborted other than have the wrong mother.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by ararisq]