WAR: American Hostage Paul Johnson Beheaded; Video of Act Reported -- GRAPHIC CONTENT

Personally, what I wanted to see was when they killed Johnson, I wanted the US to bring the prisoners that Al Qaeda wanted loose to a very public location, and shoot them for ALL of the world to see.

That way, maybe they would get the point that the US is NOT going to negotiate with a known terrorist organization, no matter what the cost. They kill one of ours, and we'll kill 12 of theirs. I dunno about anyone else, but I love those odds, and I'll take em all day long.

Now everyone would probably say that I'm a cold-heartless man for saying such a terrible thing about this situation, but I don't think so. I think the US needs to make a statement to the rest of the world that we've had enough of this taunting. I think that having the prisoners that Al Qaeda wanted loose shot, live on CNN, would make the point quite clearly.

How does that separate us from them then? Well, what we're doing is in an effort to thwart anymore killings, while what they're doing is just trying to piss the US off, which they are.

Ok, ok.. I need to shut up now. I'm getting too upset.

How can y ou honestly compare what U.S soldiers did at Abu Ghar(forget the name) prison to what these extremists have done to harmless americans?

Lets see....daniel pearl, jacobs, johnson, berg....all beheaded, on video. Worst of all was berg, just terrible terrible.

Prison: wow pictures of humiliating poses, woah naked prisoners, etc... woopdeedoo!!!

This is nothing compared to their inhumane treatment of american prisoners. Even italian prisoners, that man who was shot in the neck.

I'd whip out the neutron bombs, evacuate the troops and let them rip. I'd rather have peace in the world and not worry about walking in a mall or flying on an airplane than having those animals being a threat to the world as a whole.

Originally posted by websurfer

members listed below are not older than 18. GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEIR SOULS if they are.

Posts here (RANKED in order of stupidity)

#1

simtek
Once again, Islam has reared it's true and ugly head. And yes, I mean all Muslims.

I'm 43.

BTW, until the ENTIRE Muslim world stands up and condems the brutality that is in their religion, I shall stand by my statement.

Originally posted by pgs8113

I'd whip out the neutron bombs, evacuate the troops and let them rip. I'd rather have peace in the world and not worry about walking in a mall or flying on an airplane than having those animals being a threat to the world as a whole.

*Note:* Edited for clarity.

If we did things your way dude, you wouldn't be able to walk outside without a 2 foot thick lead suit on, just to go to the store to buy some glowing food. You can't just blow up everything that you don't like; makes no sense.

[edit on 20-6-2004 by TheBorg]

Originally posted by TheBorgThey kill one of ours, and we'll kill 12 of theirs. I dunno about anyone else, but I love those odds, and I'll take em all day long.

You share the views of a famous German:

(On the afternoon of 23 March 1944, criminal elements carried out a bomb attack against a German police column marching through via Rasella.... The cowardly ambush was carried out by communist-badoglians [followers of Field Marshal Pietro Badoglio, the King's choice to replace Mussolini].... The German Command has decided to crush the work of these wicked bandits. No one can be permitted to sabotage the newly affirmed Italo-German cooperation with impunity. The German Command, therefore, has ordered that for every German killed ten communist-badoglian criminals will be shot. This order has already been carried out.)

www.h-net.org...

posted by simtek
I'm 43.
BTW, until the ENTIRE Muslim world stands up and condems the brutality that is in their religion, I shall stand by my statement.

Religion has nothing to do with the actions of a terrorist. They're not risking their lives for the sake of religion. They had power, and now that power is being stripped away from them in this US led coalition.

What brutality do you mean? Public assassination.
Would it be better if the beheadings were not public, or if the people remained ignorant as to whats happening in other parts of the world.

As a sidenote:
If I remember correctly during the renaissance the church didn't want the average joe reading the bible. They would intrepret the scriptures in their own way and use that same interpretation in the name of Christianity.

Although different religion the same thing is happening here. The difference being is that the labelled terrorists were in a position to excercise their power; although, for wrongful purposes.

Any piece of ancient literature can be translated into an infinite number of ways. You can see this with any Shakespeare writing which is only less than a 100 years old. Not less than 2000 years old, which goes for any religuos text. ie: Broken Telephone

[edit on 19-6-2004 by websurfer]

Originally posted by simtek

Originally posted by websurfer

members listed below are not older than 18. GOD HAVE MERCY ON THEIR SOULS if they are.

Posts here (RANKED in order of stupidity)

#1

simtek
Once again, Islam has reared it's true and ugly head. And yes, I mean all Muslims.

I'm 43.

BTW, until the ENTIRE Muslim world stands up and condems the brutality that is in their religion, I shall stand by my statement.

The Enitre Muslim world does stand up and condemn it! The media only doesnt report this as it would help to lessen the anti-Islamic attitude. This is because we live in a world where suppression of Islamic people, and xenophobia rule our lives. Only a minority of clerics are preaching hatred towards the West. It is the same as our Christian priests who go around fiddling children. They only represent a minority, and do get openly condemned.

These images are disturbing, no doubt. If anything, though, I wish that more people in our world would see the violence that results from infliciting our lifestyle on the rest of the world. Why did this man's life have to end? Why has it come to this, a most brutal act that shows just what we're capable of inflicting on each other because of a culture clash of civilizations?

There has been a lot of spoken grief towards the family of this victim. I appreciate the sentiment that our culture can produce, because we've had this opportunity to really try and value each others lives. That's something that the West has I believe really taken a hold of - we don't really want to have anything to do with violence. Look at that! A culture that tries to appreciate the sanctity of life. For us, the images that we see before us are horrific. Is it only because we don't ever see violent death, or is it because we've really come to appreciate the fact of life?

What kind of forces would drive a person to brutally kill someone in this way? What is the root of this war between the east and west? Religion, pure and simple. They perceive us to have this fundamentalist Christian heritage because it is the only religion being portrayed in the Media. We perceive them to have this fundamentalist Islamic heritiage because it is the only religiion being portrayed in the Media. This works well if you're a fundamentalist, because you have something to hate and therefore something to hold on to. The problem comes with the moderates, who aren't really sure what to think about religion anymore. I'm one of the latter, one who has grown up with computers and then the Internet and seen all the potential that this vastly more complex, interconnected network can provide humankind. If only there was some way that we could talk to our enemy, maybe some really tight translation software and, of course, an equal number of 'opponents' in which to partake in discussion.

I see a lot of angry comments towards Islam. I'm not Islamic, but then neither am I a Christian. I just don't think that we can judge a relgion by the actions of it's radicals. Every culture does produces radicals - it's a part of a changing society because it's mainly the outliers that bring in new memes for everyone else to digest. If that meme resonates with enough people then it produces an overall change in the pattern of people. What we're doing here though is rejecting a very influential meme before we even get a chance to process it. It's a defense mechanism - you build static structures because there's a chance that a new idea will destroy your world as opposed to saving it. The thing is, if you want to improve your life then you have to process as many memes as possible. It adds to your individual complexity. It gives you faith in yourself.

I've always believed that understanding as many people as I can will make me a better person. What worries me is that unless we can somehow communicate our beliefs to a higher degree of quality then we'll all just end up killing each other. It seems so tragic for a species with such potential.

I see the way this world is going. We're polarizing ourselves in order to make our individual world understandable. Why else would we kill other people? Are we as innocent as we would like to think? Have we not spilled blood in a horrffic fashion to the people of the east? Did every smart bomb reach it's target, or were innocent people who had their own lives like this helicopter repairman brutally murdered in the name of War?

Before we condemn our enemies, perhaps we should condemn ourselves. We have approached a foreign culture with a cluster bomb in one hand and a can of coke in the other. Surely there are more positive aspects of our culture that we can approach foreign people with? What about tolerance, equality and fair justice? What about the idea of representational rule? Surely this idea which has so greatly benefitied our lives could be instrumental in benefiting other lives as well? We don't seem to be going about it the right way, and all of our best efforts seem to be exploding in our face.

Unless, of course, you're happy hating people for the sake of hating someone. It seems to me that this class of people is something that we as a surviving species can do without. What did Kennedy say? "We live in one world, we gotta breath in the same air, we gotta live together, we're gonna die together."* Just because a culture or a person is foreign and strange to your perception doesn't mean that their right to life is any weaker than your right to life. We're all human beings, and we're just trying to figure out a way to live together on this fragile blue planet.


*Taken from the following video, compiled in February / 2002. S-11 Redux is a sound-bite blitzkrieg that challenges the messages we have been fed from our mainstream media and the government it serves. Be warned - this video moves quickly and will require at least two viewings to digest its full impact. I wholeheartedly recommend viewing the messages from the last third again. (via The Guirella News Network - top right corner to download):
gnn.tv...

It really is... up to us.

[edit on 19-6-2004 by ChefQuix]

Originally posted by nativeokie
I have to say I feel I personally am reaching a new level of disgust. Not only to kill someone but to do so in such a violent way, ensuring that the person suffers horribly before dying.

Maybe I need to re-think my position and vote for whomever promises to hunt these sickos down and brutally kill them. Make them wish we threw them in an Iraqi prison by the time we are done with them.

Oh and Tora Bora, blacken the place, warn the people, given them one way out, check to make sure they are not terrorist and just drop the big bomb over that desolate region. Maybe we would get lucky

i know its not politically correct, but i agree with you mate, I'm an aethiest and just thinking that they do this in the name of a god makes me inexplainably frustrated.......its time we showed them wrathe

To throw my few cents in, I would like to mention a couple of things.

1) Saudi Arabia, inside of 24 hours of this man's killing, found the leader of the Al Qaeda group that beheaded him, and killed him. It's on CNN, go look.

2) To flat out discriminate against their whole country, and against everyone there JUST because a few people are screwing it up for everyone else is wrong. That would be like saying that just because a few people here in the US are anti-American that we should go to war on ourselves. That's just a proposterous notion, and a very narrow-minded one too, if I may say so myself.

To summarize, the Saudis got the leader of the group that killed this man. Also, treat everyone with respect, regardless of who they are, until they show you that they are unworthy of that respect. And DON'T condemn an entire way of life or religion just because a few people that follow it are radicals.

P.S. I'm glad they found the guy that ordered him killed. Never thought it would happen this fast. To all Saudis, here's a shoutout to you from a greatful American!! Peace Brothers!!

Of course they found him... They pretty much know where their own high profile terrorists are, as many in the government support them. They pretty much have to in order to stay in power, or the royal family would have been ousted the moment the US left....

Ok, let me start out by stating a few facts.

1) I once lived in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for over two years.
2) I lived in the Lockheed compound, as almost EVERY Lockheed employee there does.
3) I've travelled extensively in the Middle East and abroad.

I will agree that the majority of ALL muslim people are a calm reserved bunch. Unfortunately, their leaders and newsmakers, are not. Saudi is, and has always been, a haven and breeder of terrorism. Not in the cities so much (except for the financial backers), but in the outskirts. They do NOT think like the west, and indeed, their motivations are almost alien to our way of thinking. I wouldn't suggest nuking, but an occupation of Saudi is pretty much inevitable, within a few years. Unfortunately, I think it will likely end up throwing kindling on WWIII (the spark was already lit)....

My deepest sympathies go out to his friends and family (many of which I likely personally knew well....)



[edit on 19-6-2004 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Gazrok

Saudi is, and has always been, a haven and breeder of terrorism.

I think you are Totally wrong !!

you are talking about almost 20 million people , you can't just judge them as breeder of terrorism !!

Try READING my post next time... I'm talking about the leaders and outskirt areas...not the people in general...

The majority of Arabs have NO interest in politics, and this is why the political extremists end up leading. Its also why democracy is doomed to fail in Iraq... Its because they don't want it, they aren't used to it, and they see it as unneeded...

BTW, how long have you lived there???

[edit on 19-6-2004 by Gazrok]

The majority of Arabs have NO interest in politics, and this is why the political extremists end up leading. Its also why democracy is doomed to fail in Iraq... Its because they don't want it, they aren't used to it, and they see it as unneeded...

Well, their non-interest in politics has a reason. Lack of democracy has a tendency to cause a lack of interest in politics. It's a good thing that so many americans has such a vast interest and knowledge in politics though, isn't it?

You know, the first inklings of all this started way back in the 70's when the militants in Iran took hostages and the oil countries started flexing their collective muscle by cutting down oil output. This was the beginning of the upward spiral of oil/gas prices. What we SHOULD have done (and what many people wanted) was force our government to fund alternative fuels. Had me made that investment way back then --- almost 30yrs ago --- can you imagine how much LESS oil we'd need now? These countries are in a position of power ONLY because of our need for oil. Without it they'd be sucking-up to us for everything they need to survive. The tables would be turned.

Why did we fail to see the writing on the wall and miss this opportunity? Becuase the people we put in our government are more concerned with their HUGE personal oil profits then the good of the country. The technology IS there. There are numerous different types of RENEWABLE energy sources that could be developed. We've wasted 30yrs. The question is are we stupid enough to waste another 30yrs or are we finally going to do something about it? Eliminate our dependence on oil and that whole region gets turned back into the useless sandpit it was to begin with.

Just my humble opinion...

- JT

whopper chopper

I have deleted your post. If you would like to try again voicing your opinion without the bovine excrement and without the racial slurs...be my guest, otherwise...

skip it.

Originally posted by simtekBTW, until the ENTIRE Muslim world stands up and condems the brutality that is in their religion, I shall stand by my statement.

Are you going to stand up and condemn the killing of women and children at the hands of US soldiers today?

U.S. military plane fired missiles Saturday into a residential neighborhood in Fallujah, killing at least 20 and leveling houses in the restive Sunni Muslim city, residents and hospital officials said.
--snip--
At least three women and five children were among the dead.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

So many of you are complaining that persons in the middle east show outrage over the killing of Iraqis but don't express the same outrage over the killing of Americans.

What you don't seem to be aware of, is the same thing is happening with Americans showing outrage over deaths of Americans but not over the deaths of Iraqis.

That's just the nature of humans, we are affected emotionally by the death of one of our own much more so than by the deaths of others.

BTW, until the ENTIRE Muslim world stands up and condems the brutality that is in their religion, I shall stand by my statement.

by browha
The Enitre Muslim world does stand up and condemn it! The media only doesnt report this as it would help to lessen the anti-Islamic attitude. This is because we live in a world where suppression of Islamic people, and xenophobia rule our lives. Only a minority of clerics are preaching hatred towards the West. It is the same as our Christian priests who go around fiddling children. They only represent a minority, and do get openly condemned.

I would like to believe that this is true, the part about the minority being openly condemned.

Name three radical muslim clerics that support terrorists and name three muslim clerics living in the mideast that have openly condemned them. Or, alternatively, show one example of a large scale public demonstration against al Qaeda, replete with crowds burning the al Qaeda symbols in effigy.

The other part of your post, suppresion of Islamic people, is just not true. There are instances of xenophobia, true, but they are a result of the fact that there is no massive outcry of condemnation by the muslim community over these acts, so it appears that they are "all of the same mind". And you are wrong about the media not reporting it. Listen to Air America Radio or any other left-wing outlet, and you will see what I mean.

I would if I was THAT big on the whole situation, but I am not.
However, I challenge you to present to us proof that EVERY muslim is responsible for this. The problem is the media, they do not tell us which clerics are condemning the situation, only the ones condoning it.


Edit: I would like some of you to read through this page. This was directly relating 9/11, 5 days after it happened. Here.
Look at some of those comments and reflect.

[edit on 19-6-2004 by browha]

You know, there are plenty of English versions of the Koran available.... Read through it, and you'll find none of what the terrorists are espousing, no more than you'll see the Bible telling idiots to dance with snakes.

It's the warped interpretations of some religious leaders, not the majority of arabs, that are behind terrorism....

Originally posted by pgs8113
How can y ou honestly compare what U.S soldiers did at Abu Ghar(forget the name) prison to what these extremists have done to harmless americans?

I'd whip out the neutron bombs, evacuate the troops and let them rip. I'd rather have peace in the world and not worry about walking in a mall or flying on an airplane than having those animals being a threat to the world as a whole.

How many pictures of civilians mutilated by US Military ordinance would you need to see before understanding that it is exactly this which fuels terrorism? If you can justify obliterating millions of innocent people in the name of peace, then surely you must understand that this is exactly how the terrorists also reason for peace in their part of the world.

3000 innocent lives were extinguished on September the 11th and as a result you would gladly sever the head of an "enemy" wouldn't you?

Here is tidbit of logic for you at no cost: Your genocide of the Middle-East just so you can walk in a mall is exactly the justification extremist muslims use to deal out the terror that we suffer.

From what I read of your post, it sounds like you are calling for the extermination of a race of people. Hmm, that sounds familiar....where have I heard of that before?