A REAL bi-partisan issue: The Assassination of American Citizens

...and why it matters


So what will it be America? Right and Left, or Right and Wrong?

[edit on 19-7-2010 by projectvxn]

Pick your Glenn:

From the Right:
Glenn Beck

GLENN: So let's start here. If I told you that the president had a list of people that he could assassinate and it was a list of people that were on the battlefield and off the battlefield, your friends wouldn't believe me. If I told you that these were American citizens, that the president who campaigned against scooping Arabs off the street without due process had a list of people that he deemed a danger and a terrorist threat, American citizens that without due process would be assassinated, your friends wouldn't believe me. That's why I'm going to have to go to another source, and I apologize because I know it's cable news. So, you know, "Oh, well, then he just went to Fox." I want you to listen. Listen please carefully to this report.

From the Left:
From Salon.com/Glenn Greenwald

There are many legitimate criticisms voiced about Keith Olbermann, but he deserves substantial credit for his coverage last night of a story that is as self-evidently significant as it is under-covered: Barack Obama's assassination program aimed at American citizens. He not only led off his show with this story, but devoted the first two segments to it, and made many of the key observations and asked virtually all of the right questions. The videos of those two segments, worth watching, are below.

What's most striking to me about all of this is that -- as I noted yesterday (and as Olbermann stressed) -- George Bush's decision merely to eavesdrop on American citizens without oversight, or to detain without due process Americans such as Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi, provoked years of vehement, vocal and intense complaints from Democrats and progressives. All of that was disparaged as Bush claiming the powers of a King, a vicious attack on the Constitution, a violation of Our Values, the trampling on the Rule of Law. Yet here you have Barack Obama not merely eavesdropping on or detaining Americans without oversight, but ordering them killed with no oversight and no due process of any kind

I think this is one of the few, real, bi-partisan issues out there. NO PRESIDENT should EVER have this kind of power. And we'd be stupid to let them keep it.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn


This is a tricky one. First I have no love for Obama. Second, the guy he is trying to assisnate is at least guilty of aiding terrorists and in my opinion should die for that, however I dont really care how they do it. But thirdly, saying it is ok for Obama to do this sets up a dangerous precedent that could be turned against any American citzen. So based on that, I guess it is wrong for Obama to target the guy, but only because he is a US citizen.


[edit on 19-7-2010 by ZuluChaka]

reply to post by ZuluChaka


IT IS turned on the American citizen.

Did you know that the Dept of Homeland Security defines protesting as "low level terrorism"? What about the MIAC report listing Ron Paul supporters, returning vets, and Tea Party activists as "right wing extremists" saying the movement could lead to another Timothy McVeigh?

It IS being turned against us. It is a program DESIGNED to kill American citizens. By the way, there are now thousands of people on that list...Why do I say this? Because the terror watch list is still being used. A watch list with 7 and 8 year old kids on it. Anti-war protesters, Tea party activists, and everything in between.

We have DUE PROCESS in this country. Are you willing to give up your principles because of something you don't know is true? Even Olbermann, an Obama loving Liberal said that evidence has NOT been forthcoming from this Admin or any other secret organization.

With the loose way "Terrorist" is being defined in practice and on paper you SHOULD BE worried that your head may one day be in the cross-hairs of a government sniper.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn


I agree. That is why I said the right decision for me is to conclude that Obama is wrong in doing so.

reply to post by ZuluChaka


Ummmm hello?!!?! Maybe the guy aided the terriorist because he had to?? In fear of his life?! That doesnt give anyone the right to kill him for it! We dont know the whole story, and Whatever happened to killing the terriorist themselves? and not people who are probably doing whatever they have too to keep their own butts alive?

reply to post by ZuluChaka


Look if they're targeting people overseas who are not American's and WHO ARE, without a doubt, engaging in activities that will certainly lead to the deaths of Americans, then by all means blow the dudes head clean off.

But Americans, under the American Constitution have RIGHTS. And under Nature and Natures God those Natural Rights are not subject to abolition.

The First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Fourth Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Seventh Amendment:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Eighth Amendment:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

We're being set up to remove all of these rights. And we're letting them. Don't get distracted by who is or isn't on the list. THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT. What is important is that this power be taken from the government period. Government can't do anything right. And if anyone thinks they won't go after dissidents with sniper rifles you've got another thing coming.


[edit on 19-7-2010 by projectvxn]

I really don't get it.

In this time, with these atrocities going on and there's more news coverage of gay rights, or the war on terror or the economy.

WTF is wrong with America?

I mean seriously, you all really don't care do you? You have an administration that is taken unprecedented power away from the people and now assissinating those they are sworn to represent and defend.

Even if they WERE terrorists, they are still under the rule of law as American Citizens and should be treated with those laws in mind.

Now we have the whole "domestic" terrorism, which is what this is about in a nutshell, the next great removal of your rights and the creation of the "official" big brother state as opposed to the shadow one.

You know it's a really sad day in democracy and freedom when the crooks don't even have to hide their crimes anymore.

~Keeper

First, back up before the smokescreen made you cry. I very much intend to change the topic because everything being reported to you is on a need to know basis. Check this out and come back to reality.

This is a reply to an opinion posted to business.newsvine.com... (edited for spelling) We really should do more than just debate the issues.

Unemployment benefits have little to do with improving the state of the economy in the United States. Whether the government chooses to extend them or cut them off completely, it will not create jobs necessary for a local economy to function properly. The United States has reached its prime as far as development goes. We are now involved in a race to develop other countries. That isn't such a bad thing if only our leaders, both elected and corporate, had kept us informed so we could grow in new economic directions to keep pace with being a world economic leader.

Perhaps that is a harsh way of looking at it but you have to realize, it was the artisans, then the farmers, then the manufacturing jobs that were the meat and potatoes of our economy. We have become a service only economy but our leaders do not keep us informed of their visions that led to their decisions. If they had told us of the vision and the steps they were taking, we could have prepared for the inevitable: a global economy. Our money is no longer circulating nationally; it is spent outside of our country for the things we need on a day to day basis. But.. because we have not been kept in the loop, we are feeling the end instead of the gradual move into a new economy.

What happened to our economy is that the product producers left and then the money followed it. It did not happen overnight and we eventually lost sight of what we are supposed to do to fill the void. I am not saying that global trading is a bad thing but I am saying that our leaders making these kinds of decisions and keeping it from us, well.. that is just pure stupidity on their part.

We are not getting those manufacturing jobs back unless we stop importing and that simply won't happen! Get used to it quick because your livelihoods depend on it. We wanted the American Dream and now we have it! No more breaking your back for a paycheck unless you want to make minimum wage.

Once again, we are faced with deciding which is the lesser evil determined by the number of people affected. Don't give me the line that we are suffering more. We have an immigration problem, remember? They would not be coming here if our country was worse off than Mexico. However, extending unemployment benefits will not improve our economy because we are not spending our money here.

We are not spending to support our nation's economy, we are supporting the global economy and we were not prepared for the promotion. What we make, we don't buy and what we buy, we don't make! But look on the bright side, we are spending everything we borrow regardless of where it is going, when it should be going toward education that would prepare us for the next level up.

You do not have to like it, you just have to do it. What we need is for our leaders, both corporate and government, to let us know what in the heck they have visioned and are passing bills to promote that have left us in the dark during the most crucial times of our economic evolution. I say, "President Obama, I challenge you to keep your pre-election word: NO MORE SECRECY! Need to know? Guess what? You don't have to guess, just look at the real numbers! I think the voters need to know where this thirty year vision and policy making was supposed to take us!"

What does unemployment have to do with terrorism? Only the war we are spending so much taxpayer credit on, not to mention (but I will) everything that has to do with survival in this new global economy that we had no clue we were entering because our leaders thought we were too stupid to comprehend. After-all, it was need to know information and our leaders think they can do us favors by keeping us in the dark about EVERYTHING we are supposed to donate towards.

I hate the whole Dr.Phil manipulation on television but sometimes I can't help but recall his famous words: "How's that working for you?"

I will add this thread I recently posted about the risk to internet anonymity:

[Internet Anonymity at Risk]Now they want to know who you are so the snipers have a target.

This administration never fails to let me down in major ways.

This is the part I find the most interesting...

"After 8 years of the Bush administration, it was all about torture, Now..
we dont need to worry about torturing people anymore, we just kill em".
- from your second video(guest speaker).

I mean, WTF.

If those of you who voted for this prick dont see the mistake you made now, I dont think you ever will, and for that, we are all getting screwed over by your naivety and ignorance.

Also, the guest speaker was also right in saying that the 'right' is also to blame by endorsing so much power to Bush, that we left Obama with a clean sheet to do whatever the hell he wanted. AND IT IS TRUE.

Obama is NOT GOD, He shouldnt get to choose who lives or who dies just based on someones 'words'. This should give ALL of us a major wake up call, they can come after WHOEVER they want that they think poses a threat to Their Agenda. That means YOU, I, news commentators, our children, our siblings, our parents, EVERYONE who DOES NOT agree with this filth.

Obama will NEVER be my president, and HE DOES NOT represent me in ANYWAY.

So to the people of the world looking in on this from the outside in, just remember, it is NOT THE PEOPLE who want this, it is all due to the hands of an inept and CORRUPT government.

The moment they start threatening their own citizens with violence, is the moment the citizens should rise up andput them in their place.

This is truly disgusting.

Everyone needs to start and flag this so it hits the front page of ATS.

EVERYONE needs to see this.

reply to post by peggy m


Now that I lost your focus, we moved into a global economy to develop other nations. Those of us who protest will be taken down a notch. Those smart enough to figure out the game beieng played may move up a notch. Those who don't care one way or the other will receive taxpayer sponsored soical welfare benfits. But those who rise up to decalre war will be shot down. Tea Party Movement my [insert body part]! Why do leaders not fight their own wars? Easy, they pay us [or someone we are close to] a minimum wage for dying.

What are we going to do about it? Nothing! That is only because the ones that know are being paid to play stupid, the ones that might know are being discredited, and the ones who don't have a clue but could be swayed either way are getting paid off to stay stupid or being sent as patriots to fight a make believe war with real injuries and death going on!

How ironic that we spent the last thirty years trying to achieve an American Dream of peace and prosperity only to be shot down (I will add: with interest on our credit cards and another war we can't win), once we got so close we could almost touch it. Smokescreens, red herrings, propaganda! Who does speak the truth anymore when drama is far more exciting and confusing?

Originally posted by StarrGazer25
reply to post by ZuluChaka

 

Ummmm hello?!!?! Maybe the guy aided the terriorist because he had to?? In fear of his life?! That doesnt give anyone the right to kill him for it! We dont know the whole story, and Whatever happened to killing the terriorist themselves? and not people who are probably doing whatever they have too to keep their own butts alive?

Dude if I ever get addicted to drugs can I hang out with you? You are the best enabler ever.

Ok so the guy is aiding the enemy and it is wrong to kill him? It is not wrong to kill him. It is wrong for the government to target him without due process, ONLY because he is an American citizen.

Just look at the guy, does he look like he is being forced to be a terrorist. No. He looks excited to be a terrorist.

Now tell me what is the difference between Osama and Obama besides the BS.
In my book they both gave orders to kill US citizens with out trial. So much for the man sent from Krypton to save earth.

Originally posted by hillbilly4rent
Now tell me what is the difference between Osama and Obama besides the BS.
In my book they both gave orders to kill US citizens with out trial. So much for the man sent from Krypton to save earth.

Here's the difference, Osama worked for the CIA..

Ohh and Obama is alive..

~Keeper

I really cant believe the lack of attention this thread is getting.

It seems many out there in the liberal community just dontw ant toread about such things. They dont want the image of their leader tarnished.

Thats ok though, because I am going to throw this in their face every chance I can get since they refuse to acknowledge their failure.


Maybe you should have posted this in 'breaking news'. People are in the river of denial right now.

'if I close my eyes, and clap my heels, everything will be ok".

reply to post by Common Good


I'm not surprised by this. Every time I post something that dissolves people's political sensibilities I get the 'ole cold shoulder.

I would say that the right is, by and large, in favor of this as a methodology. If you replace Obama with someone like Mitt Romney, and target "terror" you won't find much conservative objection. Fox's Judge Napolitano is radically libertarian (hence, I actually watch him) and does not fit the right's model for what their pundits should be. It is no surprise he talks about it on his show.

As for Beck, he's a coat-tail libertarian. He is libertarian as long as it makes him seem better.

Conservatives are living a lie right now.

As for liberals, I am just a little surprised at the outrage. I suppose the reason you don't hear too much about it on the left is because it doesn't fit their narrative. The left and right is no different and I think this is a great example of it.

note: Judge Napolitano is kind of watered down on Fox News because they pick and choose the topics he seems most conservative on.



Fox won't let Napolitano speak like this and whenever he starts, someone tries to reign him in.

Edit:

It just doesn't matter.

Enjoy the crosshairs folks.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by projectvxn]

The legality of assassination should be challenged on any level. It is no more acceptable to assassinate non American citizens than it is acceptable to assassinate American citizens. The single greatest problem with authorizing assassinations, in any form, is that it opens the door for the assassination of American citizens regardless, and most certainly opens the door for the assassination of U.S. officials. Of course, even when assassination was not so openly embraced by The U.S., government officials were being assassinated as evidenced by both John and Bobby Kennedy, or the attempts on Gerald Ford and Ronald Regan.

It was the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that directly led to World War I, and the bookend assassinations of the Gandhi's, (Mahatma and Indira), the latter Gandhi being assassinated in direct response to her military aggression, that in many ways speak to the inefficient and imprudent strategies of assassination.

Of course, assassinations are efficient in that they snuff out the life of the intended target, but would JFK and his brother Bobby be remembered today in the same way they are now if it were not for those assassinations? Would the so called Civil Rights movement be something different today if it were not for the assassination of Martin Luther King, or for that matter, Malcolm X? Both King and Malcolm X were quite vocal about inalienable rights, but who in the so called civil rights movement of today even acknowledge the efficacy of inalienable rights?

Who stood to gain by the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK, and Malcolm X? Who has gained from their assassinations? Assassination is a tool of expedience, and expedience is the quality of being suited to the end in view, which the end in view is not at all indicative of the end. Further, expedience lends itself to the Machiavellian political strategy of the end justifying the means. The end, of course, does not justify the means, the end judges the means, and in the end, it is always the means that justify the end. The outcome of assassination is more assassinations as like attracts like, and for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander. Who needs a gander of assassins?