Sexism, Feminism, and The Draft

Let me start by clearing one thing up.

The draft never went away.

The Selective Service System is alive and well, operating in a town near you.

There have been no induction orders mailed since 1973, however, if ordered to do so, the Selective Service could

within 24 to 72 hours, could have induction orders in the mail
to young men across the country.

Link to Article

I recently came across an article detailing the psychological effect the draft has on men,
and while I’m not usually interested in the “psychological” effect of much nowadays,
The article got me thinking.

Here’s the full article, let me know your thoughts.

What the All-Male Draft and the Combat Exclusion of Women Tell Us About Men, Women and Feminism by Warren Farrell

"Every society rests on the death of men."--Oliver Wendell Holmes

Almost one out of four American men is a veteran.

In one World War I battle alone (the Battle of the Somme), over one million men were killed or maimed.

Understanding men requires understanding men's relationship to the Three Ws: Women, Work, and War.
As we just saw in the Section on Power,
only 18-year-old boys are legally required to register for future wars.

How realistic is it that the boys will, in fact, be drafted? We know only that in 24 to 72 hours the first induction orders can be in the mail.

Should another 9/11 happen tomorrow, that's how fast your life or your brother’s or boyfriend’s life could change. As I write this, National Guard and Reserve units practice each week setting up the infrastructure to allow 100,000 men to be trained for potential death in boot camps in four weeks.

Link

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[edit on 7/19/2010 by semperfortis]

reply to post by Oaktree

I agree totally, it's absurd that a female politician like Hilary Clinton could have become a President of the USA, but yet men are expected to make the ultimate sacrifice in the interests of both genders.
Equality means not only simply paying females in desk jobs more (or the same as many men who earn danger pay for highly dangerous jobs) and expecting males to become the gentle "new man". Equality also means giving more men secretarial jobs and putting more women on scaffolds or into frontline combat jobs. Either that or it's not "equality".
Ideally both men and women should agitate to end wars, and neither gender should be forced to endure it.
PS. Will gays be drafted too - isn't it don't ask, don't tell?
It's so patronizing in any case to define people's talents by their genitalia.

To add an interesting tidbit about the author of the article;

Warren Farrell is the only man in the US ever elected three times to the Board of Directors of the National Organization for Women (NOW) in New York City.

Thought I'd throw that in here before we get into any "That author is a woman bashing so and so" type of argument.

reply to post by halfoldman

but yet men are expected to make the ultimate sacrifice in the interests of both genders.

Not expected, but required by law.

Ideally both men and women should agitate to end wars, and neither gender should be forced to endure it.

Could war be ended if the only wars fought were required to be fought within ones own borders?
Probably a bit simplistic, but still.

Myself, as a man, or my biological imprint, I don't know really, would hate for a woman to be frontline only because of the things that may happen if they are taken hostage. Those are my feelings and I am sure some others share them as well as not aggreeing with them. I do agree that they should have to register too as well as be drafted, like the article stated, for admin roles, tech and med support. As far as their stipulations go, I don't believe a mother should be drafted. But to my understanding, moms get deployed nowadays anyhow.

reply to post by Oaktree

Warren Farrel's "The Myth of Male Power" is one of my favorites, so thanks for bringing him up! He argues convincingly that the male role is that of the truly disposible gender, especially when it comes to war. He argued that the weakness of men is their expected "facade of strength", and the strength of women is their "facade of weakness".

I'm not sure about making wars better by confining them within constructed "borders" (really colonial creations in much of the world that have caused untold strife and continuing disputes).
That would really be civil war, and the most vicious, genocidal wars of late (Rwanda, the Balkans) have taken place when neighbors attack each other over a slight difference.
Ultimately wars are manufactured, and both men and women are manipulated in that process by powerful men and women. However, US women who have rattled the war drums like Clinton, Palin, Rice or Ann Coulter prove that war is not a male speciality, and as such female soldiers should mirror female politicians.
I'm uncomfortable with this as well, since war should be minimized and not expanded, but fair is fair.



[edit on 18-7-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by ArkayikRuination


There was once a time, years ago, I felt women should have no part in fighting wars, too.
Nowadays, the way wars are fought, by the U.S. at least, I don't know how I feel.
As a husband and father, I have no want to see my wife go to the frontlines, but I also hope my son is lucky enough to never haqve to experience the horror either.

That being said, so much of the U.S. strategy is a type of hands off war, I guess the "front line is just different for many of our fighters.
Apaches engaging from miles away, UAV's, missile strikes, etc...

Back on topic, though.
I remember when I turned eighteen, along with all the b-day cards, came my reminder to register for the draft.
I guess I didn't think much about it then, but looking back, I wonder what it does to the psyche of every single male in the U.S.?

reply to post by halfoldman


I had never heard of his "The Myth of Male Power" before, but I think I'm headed to the library tomorrow to check it out.

Seems to have a great perspective on some things.

when i turn 18 i will register but if this wars still going on and i get drafted i will not go. ill flee to canada. but i will register in case future wars are worth it. but article is right. women want equal rights. but they dont want the bad part of the rights. (they should get both)

[edit on 18-7-2010 by chaseninja]

reply to post by Oaktree

Yeah, the whole situation in Iraq seems to have changed so rapidly over the past years. A lot of it it seems to be outsourced to security firms - the career soldiers or "dogs of war", and there are several South African "mercenaries".
What surprises me is that many professional soldiers are far from stereotypical sexists. With women soldiers and staff they have all kinds of rules, like you cannot look a woman for more than a few seconds or it's harassment. So I suppose it can be really distracting to put hetero men and women together, and the British army had loads of pregnant women sent home.
I suppose Iraqi women and mothers didn't have much of a choice - they were thrust into a war whether they liked it or not.


[edit on 18-7-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by chaseninja


I'm pretty sure Canada no longer harbors "draft dodgers". They will also extradite draft dodgers back to the U.S. for trial..

Refusing to submit the draft is considered a criminal offence in most countries where conscription is in effect. In the United States, refusal is punishable by a maximum penalty of up to 5 years in Federal prison and/or a fine of US$250,000.

The point being made here is that you, not even 18 years old yet, have had to put serious thought into your actions, and have decided that you will break the law if put into this situation.

While not judging your decision, consider that not one girl that you have a class with, dated, or have wanted to talk to has ever had this thought go through their mind.
It is a non-issue for them.

When you are having a debate, in class or elsewhere, with a female, about the next presidential election, remember that you don't get to vote until you sign up to defend your country with your life.

There is no such prerequisite for them.

The simple fact that you have to make these considerations, while they don't, is the whole point.

reply to post by Oaktree


i guess im going to jail for 5 years then better than dying for something i dont believe in. and i know it really makes me mad maybe we should suggest to the pres that women should have to register (like it would matter but we could try)

However, how you would like the 18 yr old teenager down the street who is in love with Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers, has her room all decked out in pink, spends her time at the mall and at the make up store- to use a rifle to defend our country?

I get its sexist. But the majority of women- are very feminine and would not be interested in warfare of any kind. The women who are interested in that kind of thing, are already in the military or police force.

Women are not men. Women are not interested in brutality or warfare. Women are extremely intelligent and can think of a million other ideas that will get the problem solved. Its a Mens war- let the men do the fighting.

There wont be a draft. No need for a draft these days, there are plenty of people out there willing to join on their own.

What I would worry about however, is Obamas new civilian force.
But even I wouldnt worry about that, the people of thisnation wont have it.

Have you not considered the thought of those men already in the army? Maybe they wouldnt be so willing to trust their lives in the hands of women?
Just a thought.

so, is anyone on here up to taking care of that 19 year old single mom's 3 kids while so goes play war?????

didn't think so......

right now, our society is so screwed.....the best thing we could do is forget about trying to run the middle east and afghanistan and start spending some time and resourses here at home!!!
thus no need to draft anyone, unless of course you want to draft some of these people out there who are out of jobs.....into paying jobs!

Refusing to submit the draft is considered a criminal offence in most countries where conscription is in effect. In the United States, refusal is punishable by a maximum penalty of up to 5 years in Federal prison and/or a fine of US$250,000.

When the draft comes if the majority of people refuse to cooperate, they won't be able to punish, fine or imprison everyone out there. I'm guessing the only reason the NWO would want females drafted is for better population control.

reply to post by xynephadyn


But hence why the discussion of equal rights. You do not get the luxury of excuses. And I might add have you ever watched two ahem ladies fight? They fight dirty! So please don't try the fairer sex argument, if boys can fight and die and get maimed in war women can too all because they wished for equal rights. See male chauvinists did have a point....

There are plenty of female warriors across the globe. Israel has some of the best trained females out there... FRONT LINE. You women can do it. You want to be equal? Step up.

Originally posted by brutalsun
There are plenty of female warriors across the globe. Israel has some of the best trained females out there... FRONT LINE. You women can do it. You want to be equal? Step up.

So basicly, in order to be equal, i have to be prepared to kill someone for it? Thats the problem with primitive thinking.
Why should i:
A) Get drafted and trained to kill.
B) Kill another human being who has done nothing personal to me to warrant such a fight
C) "step up" When i give enough to society by working, paying tax, abiding the law etc.

Hmmm. Answers please.