Money is the real cause of poverty

This is an extract from the book The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist by Robert Tressel, regarding the concept of money. The book was written in the early 20th century about a group of workmen and painters working in England. The extract is called The Great Money Trick, and I believe it is very good explanation of the capitalist system. Please read the extract before commenting.

"Money is the cause of poverty because it is the device by which those who are too lazy to work are enabled to rob the workers of the fruits of their labour."

prahalathan.blogspot.com...

or just watch the video

I will watch the video. But one thing I know without any videos is that greed is the real cause of poverty . Money and capitalism just make greed easier and wrap it up in a shiny silver package.

Even feudalism can work if people are not corrupt from inside. If they are, no system will ever help them. People make mistake when they think that such broad thing as poverty can be pin pointed to one single ideology....

Could also mention that the way fractional reserve lending works means there is much more debt than what there is to pay it off. Money is essentially created through devaluation of the currency.

Honestly, I don't get why so much attention is on the poor and what they do. If you fixed the major problems from the top down, call it trickle down economics, there would be plenty of wealth and opportunity to work for everyone. While we're focusing on the poor, we forget the impossible debt burden that is over the whole country. It's a great distraction though to think we should work from the bottom up.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Maybe we can fix this problem with shredded car tyres and golf balls ??

There is no reason for money to exist. We will never evolve into loving beings while it is still in use on any level, either money or the concept of valuation. All things are equally necessary or frivolous, depending on the situation at that time and place. That being said, all things should be equally available to all, as needed, freely, with love and generosity. We keep ourselves from better simply from this one thing in our human culture.

Would the world be in crisis were it not for money? Look at the state of things out there. Imagine it with money taken out of the equation. Does it look different at all? Perhaps entirely?

Who would have power over us without money? Who would make our decisions? Who could influence us? Only we ourselves, finally and forever.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


"Poverty" is relative.

If "poverty" means not having the fastest car, biggest house, or best clothes... then yes. Money is the source of poverty.

If "poverty" is having no food, sleeping in a mud hut, rags for clothes as your all skin and bones.... then no, money is not the source of povert- society is.

There is very little "poverty" in the US.. aside from the mentally ill and addicts living on the street, nearly everyone has enough to survive.. take me to a ghetto, a trailer park, or old mining town.. and compare it to truly impoverished people in other countries.. those in the ghettos and trailers would be living like kings...

Poverty is relative.

There are those who make very little, and love life. They make their homes their own and relish in the smaller things in life. They may not have a mcmansion, a flat screen tv, or a new car.. but they have enough to be happy. Is that poverty?

And yet there are those who have little, who make no effort to live within their means, they lust after cars and big houses, filling their own souls with anger and spite.

But again.. its all relative..

And you'd be surprised.. as a percentage, among the wealthier classes suicide and depression are far more prevelent.. a rich man with a fleet of cars, boats, a big ol house, maybe a beach house somewhere, supermodel wife.. still can't find happiness..

Is that "poverty"?

"Wealth" and "poverty" has only to do with our own expectations, our own soul searching, and our ability to define who we are and what we need to be truly happy. For some its a mansion and a fast car, for some its a little shack of a house in the woods and a good fishing spot..

reply to post by Rockpuck


Makes you wonder why the rich hold onto all that material wealth if it makes them so bleeding unhappy, doesn't it? Maybe it doesn't pay to aspire to be like them.

On the other hand...

Poverty sucks too. The saddest story I've heard was many years ago when we were on holiday in Thailand. There was a story run in the paper there about a woman who threw her two-month-old daughter out the hospital window. Why would any mother do a thing like that?! Simple. There was no money to pay for the operation to repair the infant's heart. The child's father had gone around to all the relatives to gather money for the operation, but at the last minute he disappeared with all the dosh and left the mother and daughter to their fates. The mother could no longer bear to watch her baby suffer (quite typical of mothers) and the baby would not get care without the money her father had collected. The mother did the only thing her shattered heart knew to do.

Money: Ruining lives since the dawn of human civilization. When will we learn?

reply to post by CosmicEgg

Makes you wonder why the rich hold onto all that material wealth if it makes them so bleeding unhappy, doesn't it?

Dunno.. Just look at Hollywood.. fame, glory, money out the wazoo .. most of them are effing nuts. Or if you've ever read a follow up on Lottery winners.. people go insane, many end up broke, arrested for various crimes, suicide etc.. Not that this all doesn't happen to middle class and poor people, but as a percentage, it's quite high in the upper echelons of society.. Personally, I believe it has to do with believing money can truly buy happiness.. and when you buy all you can buy, and you have nothing left to aspire to.. you sink inward into your self.

As far as the woman throwing her baby, one could look at it like all the money could be spent on the operation, operation still fails, and you still watch your baby die a slow death regardless of how much you spent on it. More often than not, pouring money into medical practices only slows the inevitable. Unless of course, it is basic health-care like malaria inoculations etc.. But as I said, in America (and most of Europe), our idea of "poverty" is much, much different than the rest of the Worlds.

I read the story...

What a load of garbage.

It's understandable why the good doctor may be inclined to feel this way about "capitalist" classes and "working" classes because he lives in India.

India has a very rigid caste system that locks people into roles described in his little example through various mechanisms.

en.wikipedia.org...

The problems with his example are too numerous to mention, such as the arbitrary portioning of wages in comparison to profits, the exclusivity of industrial ownership, the arbitrary cost of living in comparison to wages earned, the assumption that nothing is left for workers to invest in capital stock after providing for their survival needs, etc.. etc.. etc..

Basically his example is a joke in terms of real economic activity.

Money is nothing more than a trade facilitator.

Without trade, there could be no specialization of labor.

Without specialization of labor, society would still be living in mud huts fishing and hunting for a living.

Today the problems with money come from what backs the money, not from its use as a trade facilitator. Because money is used to represent value, when the currency is unbacked and allowed to be arbitrarily expanded, the working class suffers from wealth transfer because those who get the new money first get the most benefit. Savers are penalized and capital resources are depleted.

The real history of money explained in 10 minutes by Professor Walter Block:





[edit on 16-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

I think I agree with most posts.

Poverty is an artificial state. If there's no money, there's no poverty. Someone creates money, and suddenly those that don't have it want it. Money is a way to collect the energy of your labor. Many don't want to expend energy, or perform mental or physical labor, so they don't collect money. But they want it anyway.

I've just equated poverty with lack of energy to perform labor. Is that fair?

Then again, someone with money can quickly find themselves in poverty by not being wise about money.

The FED is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever devised. Nearly everyone is being robbed by inflation.

Poverty is engineered by the the banks, war, oil and disease profiteers. We used to have an inflation-less currency before 1913. People could always count on their savings (gold silver) to get them through hard times.

Having an honest (hard) currency, goes a long way toward having a sustainable nation, because it limits the amount of money in circulation & prevents overprinting (inflation) & theft by inflation.

Money isn't the cause of poverty. If you were to remove the money, and go to say a barter system, then there would always still be plenty of people out there that had more than their share. Greater power with which to barter with. And there would still be people at the very bottom who were desperate enough to steal and rob to get what they want or need. It's life, it's just the way it works.

There will be no hippy wishy washy higher consiousness. We aren't evolving spiritually. We're simply devising more and more ways to accumulate the things we need to climb the ladder of life.

reply to post by RMFX1


If you've ever read anything else I've written about getting rid of money from our world, you would know that it's never the money itself that's the problem. It's the valuation of any one thing over another. Cleaners are just as important as doctors. A bunch of carrots is just as magnificent as goat cheese. A glass of water is equally as vital as a spoonful of salt. It depends on what you need at the time.

What I advocate is a world where we all do what we love doing all the time. We love it so it's easy and we're good at it. Our time passes with pleasure and fulfillment. Our world is full of our creations and we have time to do the important things - that is, we live our lives. No strain, no angst, no measuring up to others because we are all innately of equal value (anyone care to claim otherwise?) so we live in peace with ourselves and with others.

reply to post by mnemeth1


It was Thailand, not India. Pay attention. And it was not garbage. I think you need to adjust your attitude before your world starts to reflect it back to you. It won't be nice.

reply to post by CosmicEgg

Cleaners are just as important as doctors.

Nonsense. Anyone can clean a toilet. A Doctor could scrub a toilet just as well as anyone else. Could a cleaner accurately diagnose and treat even the simplest of health issues?

NO! Of course not.

Should a cleaner (someone who is likely to have a very low level of education), be paid the same as a Doctor (someone who has dedicated years of their life to sutdying towards their medical degree).

Of course not. Non skilled workers should not expect to be paid on the same level as skilled workers. What a ridiculous statement to make.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to live in your ill concieved fantasy land. It sounds rubbish if you ask me. I want to do the work that I'm trained for, and I want to be paid accordingly. I put a value on my services that must be met or I'll go work somewhere else that will pay me all of the cheese and carrots I think I'm worth...

Oh hang on a second..that sounds exactly like the world we live in now, except in your world..the carrots and the cheese ARE the money.




[edit on 17-7-2010 by RMFX1]

Originally posted by RMFX1
reply to post by CosmicEgg

 

Cleaners are just as important as doctors.

Nonsense. Anyone can clean a toilet. A Doctor could scrub a toilet just as well as anyone else. Could a cleaner accurately diagnose and treat even the simplest of health issues?

NO! Of course not.

Should a cleaner (someone who is likely to have a very low level of education), be paid the same as a Doctor (someone who has dedicated years of their life to sutdying towards their medical degree).

Of course not. Non skilled workers should not expect to be paid on the same level as skilled workers. What a ridiculous statement to make.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to live in your ill concieved fantasy land. It sounds rubbish if you ask me. I want to do the work that I'm trained for, and I want to be paid accordingly. I put a value on my services that must be met or I'll go work somewhere else that will pay me all of the cheese and carrots I think I'm worth...

Oh hang on a second..that sounds exactly like the world we live in now, except in your world..the carrots and the cheese ARE the money.




[edit on 17-7-2010 by RMFX1]

I have to entirely disagree with you. A doctor is what a lot of people want to be, just ask some kids, no one wants to be a janitor, but someone has to do it, and it is necessary. I can not comprehend how someone could say janitors are not as important as doctors, you cant do surgery with unclean tools in a unclean environment. How much skill you need to have a job has nothing to do with its value, only with how much you can get away with charging do to supply and demand. There would still be doctors if janitors were payed them same amount. Ask a doctor how much he would have to be paid to switch jobs and be a janitor, probably wouldnt do it even if you paid him more. I think you live in a fantasy world.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by CREAM]

[edit on 17-7-2010 by CREAM]

reply to post by CREAM


No, I live in reality. Incase you hadn't noticed..that's how our world works

And for the record, I wouldn't take a job as a janitor if you paid me. I dedicated years of my life to study, because I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't end up as a janitor or something worse. But also because I knew that the more skills you have in life, the greater your value is in the workplace. Just as it should be.

reply to post by RMFX1


No, in my world all things are of equal worth. All things *are* of equal worth. You are welcome to stay in your world. My world is more suited to my tastes, thanks.

Changes are coming. You might want to consider preparing for them. You're going to have to evolve.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


Changes aren't coming. Snub out the incense sticks and snap out of your daydream.

If you aren't happy with your lot then you only have yourself to blame for not applying yourself earlier in life.

reply to post by RMFX1


yes and accept the world where a man can spend over 30 years of his live learning a trade, one that is needed if you want all that medical equipment to keep running by the way!) and make less that the kid that spent 4 years partying in college will be making after graduation.....
and well, still have a better lifestyle than the kid because the kid raked up a ton of debt for his tuition!!!


I'll go back to favorite quip.....
if a job requires a living breathing person, then it should pay enough to keep that person living and breathing, and well, that means he should be able to pay his medical bills if he is hurt or sick!!
untill that condition is met, then well....NO ONE....I don't care how many years they devoted to study, or how good they are.....deserves hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in salaries for whatever job they do! especially if one is talking about those in the medical field, where so many of the patients' bills are being footed by the taxpayers!!!
those doctors and nurses would be forced to provide their services for chickens and eggs if it wasn't for those socialist schemes called medicare, medicaid, schips, insurance, ect!!!

the change might not be coming..........
but it is desperately needed!!!

[edit on 17-7-2010 by dawnstar]